Well so far me and one other has had M/T issues and I haven't heard of anyone having (serious) A/T issues so I guess so far A/T has the edge in reliability. No way to know the long term yet though.

 

Heeehee...that works for me.

Seriously, the salesman walked me over the entire lot TWICE looking for the manual coupe so I could test drive it. All because his manager told him there was a five speed in stock. Of course it was an automatic, so we never did find that manual he insisted was there.

You wanna see a prime example of several people on this forum referring to manual as five speed as if the automatic is four? Check out this thread.

http://www.8thgencivic.com/honda-civic-forum/448-5sp-manual-lxs.html

 

People are going to have to find another way to distinguish manual from automatic other than saying "five speed". Obviously, the new automatics are five speed too. The manager and sales associates at my local dealership were running around in a constant state of confusion over this and there's no excuse.

rant over.

I have a brilliant method for distinguishing the two...how about we call the manual, "manual", and the automatic, "automatic"? Crazy, I know.

 

People are going to have to find another way to distinguish manual from automatic other than saying "five speed". Obviously, the new automatics are five speed too. The manager and sales associates at my local dealership were running around in a constant state of confusion over this and there's no excuse.

rant over.

 

Typically autos are more reliable if you do the fluid changes. With a stick (which I do think can be fun to drive once in a while), city driving can begin to suck and clutches get burned out.

If you are going for upgraded performance you could go either way. Personally for the sake of performance I would go manual. But for every day practicality, go with the auto.The five spreed slush box does a good job of matching revs to gears. I have an auto and don't regret getting it (I used to have a 5 speed prior to this car).

 

You are forgetting about the torque converter

I know that the Auto will get better MPG highway but the manual could kill it in the city if u shifted to do so. but on the highway, there is no way to overcome the autos final drive..... it owns the manual. But bigger ratios = slower accel so... if that means anything to u, +1 for the manual. If not. whatever

When talking about gear ratios, you have to take into account that the auto has a torque converter. This can effectivly double the number of "gears" in the auto. Lets say you are in 4th gear on the auto and you get on a freeway ramp and step on it. The torque converter unlocks, and the trans shifts down into second gear with the torque converter still unlocked. At this point, you are somewhere in between the first and sceond gear ratio until the converter locks back up, putting you into second gear - you will stay in second gear until the rans unlocks the converter and steps it up into third - putting your ratio in between sceond and third until the converter locks up again. This is the very reason that newer automatics can have better mileage numbers and, in some cases, better 0-60 times than manuals. You can gear them with bigger ratios and use the ECU to control the locking and unlocking of the torque converter to give you a "Fluid gear" between each mechanical gear. Many times, the torque converter cones into play with the Grade Logic controls which help hold a gear as you are driving up a slight grade. Instead of downshifting, the ECU will tell the trans to unlock the torque converter which will cause a slight increase in engine RPM to help more torque get to the road.

Of course, the actual operations are much more complex and can happen quite fast...but that is the basic idea of how the torque converters are used on newer auto transmissions now. Also...the trans fluids are much thinner than before when helps minimize the power loss.

Hope this info is useful

-Jason

 

If the car is in demand and it's a manual it will get sold quick. The civic is always in demand.

 

Actually I would think your chances of reselling a manual would be better than an auto because the supply is less. Autos are a dime a dozen.

There is less supply because there is less demand. Normally people that actually know how to drive a manual know a thing or two about cars, so they won't pay for overpriced autos. It also depends on the car itself. Selling a large unsporty car with a manual is harder than selling a sporty/sports car with one.

 

Actually I would think your chances of reselling a manual would be better than an auto because the supply is less. Autos are a dime a dozen.

 

automatic is for the lazy people that dont know how to drive.
I agree as well. The other thing to consider is that manuals aren't stolen as much. The youngsters can't drive them. I feel more in control of my vechicle when driving a stick.

Manuals aren't stolen as much because the ratios of auto:manuals is very high. There are more autos, so they're more likely to be stolen. Thats the same reason that Camry's are stolen so often, or even Civics, becuase there are so many of them.

Honda is an engine company and is the largest engine manufacturer in the world. I believe that their autos do make better gas-mileage or just as good as a manual. The EPA is the one that does the official gas-mileage that they're allowed to post and they're the ones making the claim.

Driving style matters a lot. Hitting 80mph for 45 min will get worse gas-mileage than going slow. It also matters in the reliability of the car's tranny.

 

automatic is for the lazy people that dont know how to drive.
I agree as well. The other thing to consider is that manuals aren't stolen as much. The youngsters can't drive them. I feel more in control of my vechicle when driving a stick.

 

I'm concerned about the manual being around 4k RPMs at 80 mph. Would this cause problems on a 10-hour drive?

lol two answers..

1. dont drive so fast..
2. even with my new exhaust 4k rpms seems soft so im not sure if 4k is bad ..

on a side note seems like my car is moving faster the more i run the rpms up past 6400.. almost like its remembers my driving style and lets me be aggressive.. peace

 

I'm considering a manual on my next car. I've driven pickup trucks and landcruisers with sticks for umpteen years, and kind of like shifting. I do remember some PITA times downtown where the clutch got annoying, but I think overall it was fun.

So I think I'm up for an Accord with a 5 speed. The resale situation does worry me though. Sticks can be a lot harder to get rid of when it's sales time.

 

I'm concerned about the manual being around 4k RPMs at 80 mph. Would this cause problems on a 10-hour drive?

 

I got the auto because of the traffic in Atlanta. But when i get clsoe to my home, and the roads get twistier, and less dencely travelled, I still have a ton of fun playing with the handling and acceleration/breaking. I had a 95 5-speed which worked well, but the automatic takes ALL the frustration and stress out of traffic, parking, stopping up a hill, etc.

I think the way you dirve will affect the gas milage more than anything else, but the auto with its different ratios, and computer logic shifting will always out perform the manual.

 

2) Reliability. Manual is not as reliable only in that the clutch is a wearable part that's longevity is dependant on driver skills. The auto has no wearable parts, per se, but requires the maintenance of regular fluid changes and is way more expensive to repair if/when it does die.

Yes, automatics DO have wearable parts, "per se" .

Automatics have clutch packs and bands in them, all which wear out and/or break eventually, as well as to a lesser extent the springs in the valve body. Strictly from a reliability and maintenance standpoint, the manual is cheaper to maintain and longer lasting. A modestly driven manual's clutch usually outlasts a typical auto transmission not to mention less frequent maintenance like fluid changes too (which is also easier to do correctly on a manual since there is no filter to clean/change and torque convertor to drain). When the day comes, changing clutch, pressure plate, and throw out bearing on a manual is cheaper and easier then dealing with an auto....even a DIY for mechanically inclined people. When it comes to the auto, you pretty much have to get it rebuilt or replace the entire transmission. Swapping the entire transmission isnt a bad DIY for mechanically inclined people, but VERY few would consider actually rebuilding it a DIY since it so easy to mess up. When it comes to the manual transmission itself, those will last almost indefinetly as long as your not grinding on the synchros or just plain abusing the transmission.

Of course none of that even matters unless your gunna keep the car forever. If one is only gunna keep the car a few years, or even beyond 5+yrs, either one should be problem free making all that irrelevant. Just comes down to preference.

 

Doesn't matter. I plan on keeping my next car until it's about dead anyways

 

There's also resale value to consider. You will have a much harder time selling a stick.

Actually a stick right now is worth more than an auto because Honda is making them in a 1:4 ratio (stick to auto) or at least so the dealers say. Whether this will continue I don't know...

 

I wish there were more like that. Unfortunately they're just not common enough. And when you file a newspaper ad to sell your old civic, a reliable economy car decently priced--which means perhaps the biggest pool of potential buyers--you'll get call after call of "Yeah, about that Civic you have for sale? Is it an auto?"

Statistics were difficult to find quickly, but it looks like roughly 15% of Americans drive a stick, and (this one is vaguer) a large portion, perhaps as much as 60%, of Americans can't actually drive one.

That fact is dissapointing^ Learn how to drive a stick people. What if you need to in an imergency or something? U would be in a tough situation. But I can see how more people drive autos.

 

Granted auto's are easier to drive and more people can drive them but what about dumb highschool kids who think that manuals are the coolest thing on the planet and that your car sucks if you dont have one? Or just people that "wont drive anything besides a stick." ?

I wish there were more like that. Unfortunately they're just not common enough. And when you file a newspaper ad to sell your old civic, a reliable economy car decently priced--which means perhaps the biggest pool of potential buyers--you'll get call after call of "Yeah, about that Civic you have for sale? Is it an auto?"

Statistics were difficult to find quickly, but it looks like roughly 15% of Americans drive a stick, and (this one is vaguer) a large portion, perhaps as much as 60%, of Americans can't actually drive one.

 

There's also resale value to consider. You will have a much harder time selling a stick.

The resale value should be higher for the automatic because it costs $800 more so I guess you should get more money when you resell it.

However, I'm not sure that it would be any harder to sell a stick. Granted auto's are easier to drive and more people can drive them but what about dumb highschool kids who think that manuals are the coolest thing on the planet and that your car sucks if you dont have one? Or just people that "wont drive anything besides a stick." ? Then they will be more inclined to try and find a manual transmission car.

I guess that this discussion is completely up to each person and that there isn't enough evidence/features/whatever to really declare a winner.

 

You're betraying your "old fogey" status

Heh, its been a while since I heard that term used. I think I might get that for my plate. FOGEY.

 

Basically it just comes down to preference I guess. Row the gears for the life of the car or let your left leg take a break. I myself wasn't too impressed with the feel of the shifter in the Civic EX Coupe I test drove, or else I'd be more sure about getting a stick. However, since it felt really notchy and inaccurate to me, I'm 50/50 on the issue. Many people on this site say they love the shifter, so I'm lead to believe maybe I just got a lemon. I guess more test drive(s) will have to be in the works to help clear this up.

Thanks for your insight, all

There's also resale value to consider. You will have a much harder time selling a stick.

 

Because you save a total of 4 seconds on your post by using numbers and "I c ur" "ur slw r spd". My brain hurts, where is my blood pressure medication?

It's a cultural/generational thing. You're betraying your "old fogey" status by griping about it (don't feel bad, me too!)

It's just a matter of bad habits. Hopefully ones they grow out of. We have more than enough adults already these days who can't write worth a darn.

 

So in the end there are two conclusions I have made...

1) Gas mileage, no matter how you cut it, is too damn close to make a difference. Even if you get a few more ticks per gallon outa the auto, it costs $800 more up front. So they're equal there. Either one should get in the mid 30's which is nothing to be upset about.

2) Reliability. Manual is not as reliable only in that the clutch is a wearable part that's longevity is dependant on driver skills. The auto has no wearable parts, per se, but requires the maintenance of regular fluid changes and is way more expensive to repair if/when it does die.


Basically it just comes down to preference I guess. Row the gears for the life of the car or let your left leg take a break. I myself wasn't too impressed with the feel of the shifter in the Civic EX Coupe I test drove, or else I'd be more sure about getting a stick. However, since it felt really notchy and inaccurate to me, I'm 50/50 on the issue. Many people on this site say they love the shifter, so I'm lead to believe maybe I just got a lemon. I guess more test drive(s) will have to be in the works to help clear this up.

Thanks for your insight, all