[VitViper]

Nitto invo 225/45-17 temps are down now in ohio. Our average temp is around 60 but the lows down into the mid 40s I try not to drive the car when it's cooler than 50 so no night driving at this point really.

You need some 245/40/17's on the front

 

[aLmk]

My 235/40/17 z1 star specs work OK when it's warm out/when they warm up. But if it's in the 60s or below it struggles to hook in third.

 

[ATL Si]

You keep citing this whole 'feel' argument. I don't really understand it. To me if a car has more power earlier, it feels better :shrug:

I still don't think your comparison of the 2 is particularly fair but that is not what I'm trying to argue here. Also, the above statement essentially proves my point.

Your IWG housing sucks, it does not spool anything like my GTX, it spools slow and lazy. My points were in comparison to the OP's EWG, which was also a 1:1 comparison against the IWG EFR. If you want to talk about my car with a GTX30 vs your car with the IWG 7670, my car runs circles around yours.

Vit....clearly you do not understand that every argument I made was referencing the EWG EFR. As much as you clearly love claiming your car's superiority to one that you have not driven, tuned or seen, that is besides the entire point of my argument here. Also, this thread is specifically about an EWG EFR, so if you want to come call my car a piece of crap you can do it in my build thread.

Now, as for the 650 hp turbo -- I chose and sized my turbo for a purpose, 500-550 on a stock motor, as more than 500whp RELIABLY on a *stock* block, the GTX3071 was the perfect choice. If you want an EFR for a STOCK block build, I would go with the 7163, with an EWG housing.


Yes the 7670 is "larger" than my GTX30, but that power would never be realized in 99% of people's stock motor builds. I know YOU are planning bigger, so for you a larger turbo was an obviously good investment.

I'm guessing a 7163 would be plenty capable of 450whp on a stock block, and would spool even better than the 7670 (talking EWG here just so you know). If that is true then it plays even more to the EFR being a superior turbo, right?

I installed a Comp CT4-6262 on my Synapse turbo kit that originally had a GTX3071r. Seems pretty modular to me.

Not bad, but a Full-Race kit will fit an EFR, GT and a Precision 6262 (maybe others). Nobody that I know of has tried a Comp. So that's not bad either since according to you the EFR probably won't fit the Synapse.

Again, vs the OP's EWG setup. Your IWG has nothing on me until you surpass 550hp.

That's EXACTLY what I said!!!!! Again, if you feel my car is so terrible, talk about it in a relevant thread.

Indeed, I agree. And the EWG 7670 is superior in feel and drive to the IWG 7670 due to spool and boost response, period.

Honest question, have you driven a car with an EWG EFR and one with an IWG EFR?

Not sure I get your point? I'm posting information with actual experience beyond ONE turbo car. I'm not vested in what you or anyone wants to get, I tune them all and I enjoy every setup as much as the owner -- I'm simply sharing facts, there was no heresay posted in my wall of text.

I was saying that what you said had no point in this argument. And ok....

It's my car and I chose not to hack it up. To each his own.

'hacking it up' is definitely a hyperbolic way of putting it.

I absolutely cannot believe you have traction in 1st gear on your car. I run sticky summer rubber and anything past 3-4psi in 1st just spins (Dunlop ZII's). Most people don't turbo their car for solely roll races and drag strip passes on slicks -- they are street cars, and spinning til 3rd gear SUCKS.

I don't now that the boost has been raised. But I took the car to the tail of the dragon a few weeks back (very tight, many 2nd gear corners or even first if you want) and I had ZERO issues modulating the gas exiting corners and using the full potential of the car....as long as my car can do that, I am happy with the amount of power per gear.

 

[aLmk]

I still don't think your comparison of the 2 is particularly fair but that is not what I'm trying to argue here. Also, the above statement essentially proves my point.



Vit....clearly you do not understand that every argument I made was referencing the EWG EFR. As much as you clearly love claiming your car's superiority to one that you have not driven, tuned or seen, that is besides the entire point of my argument here. Also, this thread is specifically about an EWG EFR, so if you want to come call my car a piece of crap you can do it in my build thread.




I'm guessing a 7163 would be plenty capable of 450whp on a stock block, and would spool even better than the 7670 (talking EWG here just so you know). If that is true then it plays even more to the EFR being a superior turbo, right?





Not bad, but a Full-Race kit will fit an EFR, GT and a Precision 6262 (maybe others). Nobody that I know of has tried a Comp. So that's not bad either since according to you the EFR probably won't fit the Synapse.





That's EXACTLY what I said!!!!! Again, if you feel my car is so terrible, talk about it in a relevant thread.



Honest question, have you driven a car with an EWG EFR and one with an IWG EFR?




I was saying that what you said had no point in this argument. And ok....




'hacking it up' is definitely a hyperbolic way of putting it.




I don't now that the boost has been raised. But I took the car to the tail of the dragon a few weeks back (very tight, many 2nd gear corners or even first if you want) and I had ZERO issues modulating the gas exiting corners and using the full potential of the car....as long as my car can do that, I am happy with the amount of power per gear.

What above statement? And what point?

 

[VitViper]

I still don't think your comparison of the 2 is particularly fair but that is not what I'm trying to argue here. Also, the above statement essentially proves my point.

It's not fair to compare the IWG to the EWG of the SAME turbo? Seriously? In what world do you live in?

Vit....clearly you do not understand that every argument I made was referencing the EWG EFR. As much as you clearly love claiming your car's superiority to one that you have not driven, tuned or seen, that is besides the entire point of my argument here. Also, this thread is specifically about an EWG EFR, so if you want to come call my car a piece of crap you can do it in my build thread.

The EWG EFR 7670 is indeed superior to what I have -- I posted as much initially. Any reference to the IWG 7670 being "superior" however just gets lost... because it's not. It's a great turbo restricted by a poor IWG housing, just like all the other junk IWG housings on other turbos. I didn't just pull those boost plots out of my butt -- K20 motor, same turbo kit, same turbo, different housings. Apples to apples, EWG EFR > IWG EFR. Spools considerably sooner, therefore makes more power, therefore "feels" better.

And I never said any such thing about your car.

I'm guessing a 7163 would be plenty capable of 450whp on a stock block, and would spool even better than the 7670 (talking EWG here just so you know). If that is true then it plays even more to the EFR being a superior turbo, right?

7163 with an EWG housing would be really cool to see.

Not bad, but a Full-Race kit will fit an EFR, GT and a Precision 6262 (maybe others). Nobody that I know of has tried a Comp. So that's not bad either since according to you the EFR probably won't fit the Synapse.

I will accept it with "fit" being defined loosely. "can be made to fit". No one but Full Race uses EFR's on these cars, so Synapse/PRL need not apply whereas EFR's are concerned.

That's EXACTLY what I said!!!!! Again, if you feel my car is so terrible, talk about it in a relevant thread.

I do not feel your car is terrible... don't read too far into my statement.

Honest question, have you driven a car with an EWG EFR and one with an IWG EFR?

I have driven the IWG 7670 and I was waiting to be inspired. I would love to drive the OP's EWG 7670, I confident I would love it.

I was saying that what you said had no point in this argument. And ok....

I made my point loud and clear with FACTS, not "seat of the pants" opinions. Comparing boost onset with 4 gear pulls on the street or the dyno is more concrete evidence than how you "feel" the car "feels". EWG EFR 7670 > IWG EFR 7670.

Note I didn't say the EFR is a bad turbo anywhere?

'hacking it up' is definitely a hyperbolic way of putting it.

How would you put cutting pieces out of your car? If you feel it's OK for you, great. I know what to look for when I inspect a used Si that is for sale, and if I see missing pieces --> it's a hack job and I will start to detuct value off the car. If you feel it's NBD for you because you never plan to sell the car (or sell it to someone that has no blue), awesome?

Hell I know we all do stupid crap to our cars sometimes... lol

I don't now that the boost has been raised. But I took the car to the tail of the dragon a few weeks back (very tight, many 2nd gear corners or even first if you want) and I had ZERO issues modulating the gas exiting corners and using the full potential of the car....as long as my car can do that, I am happy with the amount of power per gear.

"Modulate" is not the same as "floor it and go".

 

[ATL Si]

It's not fair to compare the IWG to the EWG of the SAME turbo? Seriously? In what world do you live in?



The EWG EFR 7670 is indeed superior to what I have -- I posted as much initially. Any reference to the IWG 7670 being "superior" however just gets lost... because it's not. It's a great turbo restricted by a poor IWG housing, just like all the other junk IWG housings on other turbos. I didn't just pull those boost plots out of my butt -- K20 motor, same turbo kit, same turbo, different housings. Apples to apples, EWG EFR > IWG EFR. Spools considerably sooner, therefore makes more power, therefore "feels" better.

And I never said any such thing about your car.



7163 with an EWG housing would be really cool to see.





I will accept it with "fit" being defined loosely. "can be made to fit". No one but Full Race uses EFR's on these cars, so Synapse/PRL need not apply whereas EFR's are concerned.





I do not feel your car is terrible... don't read too far into my statement.



I have driven the IWG 7670 and I was waiting to be inspired. I would love to drive the OP's EWG 7670, I confident I would love it.




I made my point loud and clear with FACTS, not "seat of the pants" opinions. Comparing boost onset with 4 gear pulls on the street or the dyno is more concrete evidence than how you "feel" the car "feels". EWG EFR 7670 > IWG EFR 7670.

Note I didn't say the EFR is a bad turbo anywhere?




How would you put cutting pieces out of your car? If you feel it's OK for you, great. I know what to look for when I inspect a used Si that is for sale, and if I see missing pieces --> it's a hack job and I will start to detuct value off the car. If you feel it's NBD for you because you never plan to sell the car (or sell it to someone that has no blue), awesome?

Hell I know we all do stupid crap to our cars sometimes... lol



"Modulate" is not the same as "floor it and go".

1. I think you misread that.

2. I'm not debating what those graphs said! In that situation the IWG EFR clearly reaches full boost 800 or so RPM later

3. I should have written 'turbo' or specifically 'choice in hotside' but don't be too noble here.

4. True, a 7064 could be cool as well.

5. Yes in the case of the precision turbos the fitment was not perfect

6. I would be concerned if the parts being trimmed were easily visible and had functional reason

7. Especially considering the tires I had, planting the gas coming out of the very tight turns in any setup outside of basic bolt-ons would not have been wise.

Clearly my argument for how a car 'feels' is not going well here. Probably in part because I am doing a bad job of explaining it. I still contend that I enjoy the **** out of my car and even with my hotside that "sucks" in your opinion, the car is exactly how I want it and is incredibly fun to drive...when the head gasket is not blown lol

 

[Turbo24]

Subbed

 

[Figment-The-Dragon]

First off, very very nice set-up OP.

But, I want to chime in here. Vit you "seem" to be confident about your knowledge about ALL things EFR. But, unfortunately you are missing the point.

 

[snizzletoff]

First off, very very nice set-up OP.

But, I want to chime in here. Vit you "seem" to be confident about your tuning knowledge and general knowledge about ALL things EFR. But, unfortunately you are wrong on many things.

Want to specify those things rather than making a broad statement

Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App

 

[VitViper]

First off, very very nice set-up OP.

But, I want to chime in here. Vit you "seem" to be confident about your tuning knowledge and general knowledge about ALL things EFR. But, unfortunately you are wrong on many things.

My "tuning knowledge" goes back 10 years, well beyond Honda. Neither do I have to or care to prove this to you.

And there is nothing "wrong" on "so many things" about what I posted in this thread -- I posted a simple comparison. If you somehow believe it's "wrong" and your IWG housing is "superior" to the EFR EWG housings... I'm laughing. I've tuned quite a few EFR's at this point, and in no way has a single IWG one been superior to the OP's EWG housing.

Beyond that I've posted nothing about the EFR turbos.

If you want to run an EFR -- awesome, call up Full Race and order your turbo and housing of choice. It's a good turbo.

 

[Figment-The-Dragon]

Want to specify those things rather than making a broad statement

Nope, because I am not here to start debates and or derail the OP's thread. Also I respect Vit a ton and his knowledge on this site is invaluable. He has helped hundreds of members on here because he cares about our community.

Hello sir :wavey:

 

[VitViper]

Nope, because I am not here to start debates and or derail the OP's thread. Also I respect Vit a ton and his knowledge on this site is invaluable. He has helped hundreds of members on here because he cares about our community.


Hello sir :wavey:

 

[snizzletoff]

Nope, because I am not here to start debates and or derail the OP's thread. Also I respect Vit a ton and his knowledge on this site is invaluable. He has helped hundreds of members on here because he cares about our community.


Hello sir :wavey:

Why make a claim then not back it up at all, literally no point. Vits not a ***** I'm sure he can take a bit of criticism. You can at least point out where he is wrong. Wouldn't want people to be miss-informed

 

[aLmk]

First off, very very nice set-up OP.

But, I want to chime in here. Vit you "seem" to be confident about your knowledge about ALL things EFR. But, unfortunately you are missing the point.

What point is being missed?

Why make a claim then not back it up at all, literally no point. Vits not a ***** I'm sure he can take a bit of criticism. You can at least point out where he is wrong. Wouldn't want people to be miss-informed

:yeahthat:

 

[Figment-The-Dragon]

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/11112149-post66.html


Excellent review of BW EFR turbo(s) vs GTX - data, review, feedback


Beyond the Dyno: BorgWarner EFR feature set explained

 

[VitViper]

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/11112149-post66.html


Excellent review of BW EFR turbo(s) vs GTX - data, review, feedback


Beyond the Dyno: BorgWarner EFR feature set explained

Seen all that. Great marketing.

 

[VitViper]

Let it be noted that I didn't make any GTX > EFR or EFR > GTX statements, fanbois should go read my first post -- I was sharing a comparison between EFR IWG and EWG housings. Then came the bickering and arguing about "feel" (highly subjective, everyone "feels" their turbo is awesome).

I care little for comparisons done on WRX's, Mitsubishi's, etc. If they can't get a GTX to spool well, they have other problems.

Hell I can get a GT35r (not even a GTX) to outspool an IWG EFR 7670:

But hell, on the flip side, look at how the EFR EWG housing just rapes the GT turbo...

And if you think the turbo is somehow mystical and even at lower boost below 4800 rpm it makes more power than the GT35r... yeah.... riiiiiight. [/sarcasm]

 

[frydrce]

Vit if you do the tuning for free and anyone wants to see some solid numbers on a graph send me a turbo and I'll put it on for testing. My platform should fit almost any turbo I would think. Then there is no reason to guess. Just saying.

 

[VitViper]

Vit if you do the tuning for free and anyone wants to see some solid numbers on a graph send me a turbo and I'll put it on for testing. My platform should fit almost any turbo I would think. Then there is no reason to guess. Just saying.

I guarantee you 100% your *EWG* housing EFR owns any 500-650hp turbo. You have a VERY good setup.

 

[xKAMRONx]

Why would anyone try to argue with Vit? :unamusedpopcorn:

I'm glad I read through the post, as it advised me to go with the EWG 7670 instead of the IWG. The IWG has a lot of appeal to noobies though (like myself, admittedly), as it is less complex.

I want a ride in the OP's car! Hah.