For arguments sake lets say the performance was EXACTLY the same as the manual and that it gets the same exact gas mileage. (And the same price.)
Would you buy a Civic SI with an Automatic option?
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SeanInLACA
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no i would not
HA! I guess Porsche might know how their OWN cars perform...glad there has been no argument since that post...and...NO for an automatic option in the SI. Although, as mentioned, it is not a record breaker, the SI is an entry-level drivers' car...kevzSi said:
Automatics are symptomatic of the degradation of the entire driving culture in the U.S. We, as a society, are generally lazy when it comes to automobiles...passive. As to the post that says auto drivers concentrate more on driving is ridiculous...they just have an extra hand to talk on their cell phone, put make-up on, shave, hold their newspaper, eat their extra value meals, and cut me off.
Look in the cars that line the streets in Europe and see how many automatics you see. Very few. They even offer manuals on many models that are auto only in the U.S. and have a more active conceptualization of driving. It also takes a lot more money and training to get a license, and all this combines to fewer accidents per mile of roadway (even in Deutschland where U.S. commonly confuse speed with danger).
People who complain about driving a manual in traffic, sack up! I am not about to win the world's strongest man competition by any means, but my leg has never gotten so tired in traffic that it has been an issue...leave the autos for the lawyers' wives and geriatrics
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I don't think that manuals will ever be completely out of date. As long as there is a market for them, which ther obviously is, they will keep on coming out. It would be stupid of any auto manufacture to not offer and manual transmissions because no matter how much better the newest auto might be there are still plenty of die hard manual trans drivers, myself included. Like I said before I would love to have an auto to go to and from work. But if I'm and perchasing a perfomance oriented car I want to be in complete control. I don't care how smoot or fast the new autos may be, they will never allow the total level of control that a manual does.louieinyo said:
And don't get me started on being able to concentrate on the road more with an auto. All and auto does is allow the driver to use their other hand to talk on a cell phone, shave or put make up on. If anything you have to be more aware of your surounding with a manual because you are control the car.
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Really? Maybe you're sitting too back.. That can't be possible tho im 5'9 and everybody thinks i sleep when i drive because of the way i sit and i have NP reaching anything.. You know the arm rest slides up right? Idk but if i were you id try different positions to find one that best, because the car is completely adaptable, you shoudlnt have to settle.. and theres plenty little adjustments you can make for it to become comfortable for you.. (ie. Height, etc.)imtim25 said:
And to address another issue. I personally have become a much better driver ever since i started driving stick. Im more attentive, i have pay attention to a lot more things at the same time. Looking around a turn to see if anyone is coming, while being on a hill making sure the car doesnt roll back and hit the a***ole tailing you. Trust me when i drive an auto now i feel like its a joke, i could pretty much sleep. You have to do nothing but press the gas and brake, theres no reason why people should do anything but drive when they are driving, no eating, puttin make up on etc.. Thats unacceptable. You give other things in you're life the undivided attention they deserve. When you're driving you are responsible for your life, your passengers lives, and the lives of other people on the road.
.. And i completely agree with torch02si on this, Auto's are a prime example of the laziness of our society today. In my mother country theres barely any auto's, and i guarantee you with the traffic there, that an avg Joe can drive circles around some people who claim they are 'good' drivers here.
When I bought my Si,it was the first time I had ever driven stick 
hnoes: and from that moment on I'll never drive auto if I can help it:driving: .In fact when I get old and start mowing the lawn for fun,my lawnmower better have a stick on it and if I'm lucky a K series.:vtec:
hnoes: and from that moment on I'll never drive auto if I can help it:driving: .In fact when I get old and start mowing the lawn for fun,my lawnmower better have a stick on it and if I'm lucky a K series.:vtec:http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=4052ImTheVoiceOfGod said:
I guess their wrong too.Road and track real world testdrive.FTW
"It’s been a long-standing tradition that true sports cars are equipped with manual transmissions, putting the driver in full control and enabling him to extract the utmost from his machine. Things have changed: Computers can simulate logic, and machines can manipulate things more accurately and quickly than humans. Clutch pedals and stick shifts are giving way to buttons and paddles. Increasingly, the automobile is becoming less and less in our control — anti-lock brakes with brake assist and force distribution, yaw and traction control, active suspension, electric steering with variable ratios, active cruise control — all for the better they say. But lost is the necessity for skills that once made racing drivers famous.
It is no surprise that Porsche’s Tiptronic electronically controlled automatic transmission is good, but it is a surprise to learn that it makes the 2007 911 Turbo quicker down the drag strip. Aside from special applications, the torque converter has always been considered a hindrance. In this case the Tiptronic even has one less gear, being a 5-speed. The 6-speed manual on the face of it should clearly out-drag the two-pedal car. Nay, it does not. Power-braking the Tiptronic loads the turbo and builds boost before the car leaves the line. To build boost in the manual-equipped car would require excessive slipping of the clutch. This delay in building boost gives the advantage to the torque-converter-equipped Tiptronic — the gain being a tenth of a second to 60 mph despite its taller first gear.
The ability of the Tiptronic system to quickly shift gears shaves time the whole length of the strip — pulling out two more tenths. This is because the turbo stays under load while the Tiptronic shifts — keeping the 480 bhp at work pushing the car. In contrast, the manual is given pause three times in the quarter- mile as the driver changes gears" Road and track turbo 911 testdrive.
Argument over.Thank you.
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I hear crickets in the background somewhere???
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It's not quiet. IM here!
.. And yes most of knew the tiptronic is faster than the manual on the porche. Its one of the only cars that is. It has been addressed in a forum in the past. You can say the same about the volkswagen DSG or w/e its called.. but the point is Manual's arent going anywhere and there is no doubt that they are more efficient in *MOST* cases..You can slow down and go faster much quicker with a manual. I mean till this day they are called 'Standard'. Need i say more?
Do you know how annoying it is to go through gears on a tip tronic? 5- (down) 4- (down) 3- (down) ANNOYING!!!!! Not to mention a lot of tip tronic cars still control a lot of you're driving. You can't always shift when you want to and into a gear you want to. I believe my friends acura TL shifts to 2 and 3 for it.. Or maybe jst 2nd..
I think you guys get the idea.
.. And yes most of knew the tiptronic is faster than the manual on the porche. Its one of the only cars that is. It has been addressed in a forum in the past. You can say the same about the volkswagen DSG or w/e its called.. but the point is Manual's arent going anywhere and there is no doubt that they are more efficient in *MOST* cases..You can slow down and go faster much quicker with a manual. I mean till this day they are called 'Standard'. Need i say more?
Do you know how annoying it is to go through gears on a tip tronic? 5- (down) 4- (down) 3- (down) ANNOYING!!!!! Not to mention a lot of tip tronic cars still control a lot of you're driving. You can't always shift when you want to and into a gear you want to. I believe my friends acura TL shifts to 2 and 3 for it.. Or maybe jst 2nd..
I think you guys get the idea.
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I like that the Si only comes in Manual, it keeps the school girls and granny's from buying them! :SHOCKED:
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350 Posts
I voted NO, and I wouldn't never buy any automatic. I don't care if it is smarter then me, and shifts smoother then me, and is faster then me ... the fact that I am not in control of the shifts means that I can not be 100% sure of what to expect from the car. I've driven some good (BMW) and some bad (any north american brand) autos, and trying to get that auto box to read my mind is impossible. It holds gears when I don't want it too, it shifts gears too soon when I want it to rev high, the delay between when I tramp my foot down and the auto transmission downshifting is too long, and it will shift gears IN THE CORNERS (shifts to 'neutral' when I let off the gas so I don't have any engine braking, shifts into some highgear for economy sake or something when I first get back on the gas, and then 'bucks' as I put the foot down to accelerate out of the corner cuz it has to downshift again .. UGGHGHG).
So you can spit out numbers and 'facts' all day about how autos are getting better then manuals, but until I can plug my brain into the car so it knows exactly what I want to do ... I'll stick with my clutch.
As for the whole "auto drivers have more time and attention to pay to driving" argument, I think most people will agree that auto drivers have more time and attention, but they rarely use it for driving. I think every new driver and every driving test should be taken in a manual car so they can properly learn driving concepts like engine braking, downshifting (most auto drivers don't know that when they tramp their gas peddle down, their car is shifting to a lower gear for acceleration), etc.
So you can spit out numbers and 'facts' all day about how autos are getting better then manuals, but until I can plug my brain into the car so it knows exactly what I want to do ... I'll stick with my clutch.
As for the whole "auto drivers have more time and attention to pay to driving" argument, I think most people will agree that auto drivers have more time and attention, but they rarely use it for driving. I think every new driver and every driving test should be taken in a manual car so they can properly learn driving concepts like engine braking, downshifting (most auto drivers don't know that when they tramp their gas peddle down, their car is shifting to a lower gear for acceleration), etc.
Since you seem to think that citing ONE source is sufficient enough to substantiate your claim, here is at least one that disagrees, and is of very similar reputation to your beloved Road and Track :thumb:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/3217/porsche-911-turbo-tiptronic-s.html
Sources claiming Tiptronic is faster: 1 (Road & Track)
Sources claiming Manual is faster: 2 (Porsche, Car and Driver)
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/3217/porsche-911-turbo-tiptronic-s.html
Sources claiming Tiptronic is faster: 1 (Road & Track)
Sources claiming Manual is faster: 2 (Porsche, Car and Driver)
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Sounds like that is exactly what you were trying to do with this post ...louieinyo said:
and this post ...louieinyo said:
Just face it, no matter how much smoother or faster or more efficient, an auto will never have the level of control as a manual. And for any true driver, control is not something they are willing to give up.louieinyo said:
Also, I'd have to be REALLY lazy to WANT to spend an extra $1k+ for an auto tranny.
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