K24/K20 Frankenstien swap - What needs to be done!

mad monkey · 05-22-2008, 03:41 AM

Alright, first off... BIG BIG BIG shout out to Jnaut as he's been an unbelievable help to me doing this swap as in also telling me what needs to be done. Another big thanks to Sk33ny for taking some of the pics needed for this write-up. And

to Dori, Mo, Justin and Ku for being my third hand when I needed it. So with that said... here we go!

This is going to let you know what needs to be done to make this conversion possible. It's going to explain sensor differences, what you need, what's optional and show what I personally did because of the pics. The lists will just let you know what parts you need; they will be explained at the caption of the picture to avoid less confusion and up/down scrolling. So MAKE SURE you read the captions of the pics because that is where the information will be!

Since I didn't take enough pics on how to drop/lift a motor, I'm going to assume that you already know how. Along with removing the subframe IF you decide to drop it. I have found that you can LIFT the motor out which AVOIDS the hassle of the subframe. It doesn't look like you can but you CAN. Especially if you remove the radiator support and radiator... TRUST ME along with Jnaut. It's easily possible!

Subframe Removal link thanks to blueroadster:
http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/engin...pic-heavy.html

Engine Removal link:
None yet but will be inserted here when there is one!

Requirements:
- K24 bottom end (duhhh)
- K24 headgasket, timing chain, timing chain cover
- 2002-2006 CRV Passenger side Engine mount bracket P/N: 11910-PPA-000

Options:
- 2002 - 2006 RSX-S oil pump, chain and baffle plate P/N: Oil Pump-15100-PRB-A01 Chain-13441-PCX-004 Baffle Plate-11221-PNC-000
- K20Z3 stock oil cooler
- Any internal upgrade that you wish to do

Background:
These pics will be from my swap which consists of a K24A2 (TSX) bottom and and K20Z3 head and external components. But this can be put to use with the K24A1, A3, A4 or A8. Hers's a thread to help familiarize yourself.Here is the best Information about K motors - K20A.org .:. The K Series Source . Honda / Acura K20a k24a Engine Forum.

The motor - K24A2: Yeah, I bought the complete long block. You only need the bottom end and it's components! So don't get confused with all the extra stuff you see attached to it! I have ALOT of stuff left over =/.

Down to what you NEED (other than headstuds)...sorry but I had to include my sexy headstuds in the pic =)

Oil pan off

Oil pumps: You can use the stock oil pump/balance shafts. But as you guys know, it takes a bit of power to spin those shafts/weights being submerged in that oil so alot of people delete it with the RSX-S oil pump, chain and baffle plate to free up some hidden HP. BUT if you like that smooth/quiet motor feel then keep the balance shafts. Deleting the balance shafts will add a teeny bit more "engine feel". It'll feel like having a mini-torque dampener or something. But I like it =). If you go with the type-S oil pump and are using a TSX or Accord block, you will need to modify the mounting surface of the pump to accomodate the lump in the lower plate. The CRV block you do NOT have to modify the pump. It's a flat surface. Here's a few shots.

Also, if you delete those balance shafts you'll have an open oil orifice in the main bearing cap #3 on the lower plate. YOU NEED TO REMOVE THE JET AND PLUG THAT HOLE OR YOU WILL HAVE VERY LOW OIL PRESSURE! Here's how! A wood screw and a 12mm honda bolt coated with RTV =)

Put your oil pan back on! You can use the steel one that comes with the K24 if you keep the balance shafts but if you use the type-S oil pump you're going to have to use your aluminum one. Now that the very bottom stuff is done, lets move up!

Oil cooler: The K24 does not come with an oil cooler. You can skip this step and not run with an oil cooler but I highly suggest swapping it over or running an external one. You'll need a 10mm allen key to remove the plug inside. Make sure you remember to put the O-ring in between the block and oil filter pedastal! You won't be a happy camper if you don't!
TSX

Civic Si

The transfer...
TSX

Civic Si

Now put that cooler/filter holder onto that TSX block! DON'T FORGET THE O-RING!

Now go put your head on along with the cams, timing chain, cover. Get it all torqued down! This is a VERY good time to do your valve adjustment. Since you'll most likely have 360º access to all the rockers you may as well do it now rather than struggling to with it in the car. But if your car was perfectly quiet before, then I guess you have nothing to worry about. Be sure to lube all the components with some 10w-40 or assembly lube too. Just to help the motor stay moist =X. I did both... I also had a brand new head so it was BONE dry.

Crank Pulley: You gotta use your K20 one! Notice the size difference between the TSX and K20. TSX at left and K20 at right. If you forget to use your k20 crank pulley you will DIE trying to put the belt on. Trust me, holding a non-worn out tensioner all the way open for a extended period of time is NOT fun. Especially when you realize that you put your K24 pulley on -_-.

Time for the sensors. You will be transfering all of your sensors and components that attach to the block. Use all of your old stuff. Everything fit the same except for these few sensors' clips. Here are the differences...

Crank Position Sensor - TSX: Left | Civic Si: Right

Knock Sensor - Civic Si: Left | TSX: Right (yes the sensor goes into a sealed hole. It's just a microphone for our ecu plain and simple.

Oil Pressure Sending Unit - Civic Si: Left(plastic connector) | TSX: Right(metal probe) (Make sure you put some teflon tape on the threads to guarantee a seal)

The CRV mount: The CRV mount is just a shorter version of the Civic Si one. It's to make up for that added height of the 2.4L block. You don't use the stud from the old mount. Just get 2 17mm bolts long enough to go through the mount and put a significant length of thread into the bracket.

Now get it all back together!

Might as well change the clutch and flywheel while I'm at it right?! (No I'm not tightening the pressure plate bolts all the way down with the air ratchet. I'm just getting them all snug. Everything was torqued according to spec.)

The lazy way of putting a tranny on!

Alright time to go back in. Sorry I didn't take that many pics so I'll just put the final few in.

Make sure all your fluids are filled, bolts tightened, electrical connectors connected and start it up! Have complete silence around you while it runs... listens for any abnormal rattles, clatters, whines, howls, grinding =X, etc. Also watch for a CEL. If you have one, turn the car off immediately and double check all of your connectors and make sure they're plugged in their right spots. Then reset the battery and go for another try. If it's still on it most likely means it's an internal problem which would really suck. Immediately turn the car off and find a buddy with a scanner to figure out the code. Hopefully it's nothing that will make you slam your head through a wall. BUT if you start it and no CEL....

you've just done a frankenstien swap! Congrats and have fun!

As for engine management, I'm running on the stock ecu for now. So I'm revving to 7800. Jnaut, has run with the reflash and reported that from 7900-8600 the car leaned out. But 7800 and below he was perfectly in the safe zone. Until, a stand alone comes out... I'll be sticking to the stock ecu.

Any questions/corrections/reguards feel free to PM me.

vingavina · 05-22-2008, 03:51 AM

nice! make sure to post vids and if you get some dyno numbers

futhermucker · 05-22-2008, 03:54 AM

ah very nice very nice... now come do it on my car lmao

***Zeuceone*** · 05-22-2008, 03:57 AM

sickest diy.

JDM lover · 05-22-2008, 03:59 AM

nice write up!!! i wish i had the funds to do a frankenstein.... lol.

***Zeuceone*** · 05-22-2008, 04:02 AM

balance shaft delete

Gimenez · 05-22-2008, 04:15 AM

So what was the new redline of this swap? You use the TSX redline right?

NVM... I already read the other thread

damnu · 05-22-2008, 04:48 AM

nice writeup, now i know who to goto when i need help doing mine

why not run like a F/IC temporary so you could rev to the limit? or for safety sakes, just incase you 'accidently' forget to shift.

Cornizzy · 05-22-2008, 08:18 AM

love it man!!

NIGHTHAWKSI · 05-22-2008, 08:25 AM

great writeup!

very thorough...you make it look so easy, lol.

k20z3 Koop · 05-22-2008, 08:26 AM

How does it feel?! significantly faster?

FA5VL · 05-22-2008, 09:04 AM

hm... this got me thinking! i want to see that tourque on the dyno. [=

mako8 · 05-22-2008, 10:40 AM

This is great to actually see a DIY of this swap. Let us know what it looks like on the dyno!

**0720Steve** · 05-22-2008, 10:57 AM

yummy

rcracin13 · 05-22-2008, 10:58 AM

you sir are awesome for doing this. congratulations on getting back on the road with a bit more torque

autoxmnstr · 05-22-2008, 11:03 AM

did u have to extend any wire's on the hanress? do all the sensors go plug n play? I just did two swaps this week, a b16 and a type r, but this looks easier then that. i'm tryna think of what else gaev us problems...i dunno, but i'd like to do this as well, can u pm me a finished list of parts?

honda2k1typer · 05-22-2008, 11:06 AM

I would actually attempt this if I completely knew what I was doing; nice though man

jdmcivic517 · 05-22-2008, 11:18 AM

yeah im interested in dyno number and 1/4 mile times.

KameraBoy · 05-22-2008, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeuceone

sickest diy.

razasasin · 05-22-2008, 03:52 PM

Siickk! I'm assuming you'l be dynoing at the saturday meet?

05-22-2008, 03:41 AM	#1 (permalink)
mad monkey Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: bay area Posts: 3,007 Jeremy iTrader: 1 / 100%	K24/K20 Frankenstien swap - What needs to be done! Alright, first off... BIG BIG BIG shout out to Jnaut as he's been an unbelievable help to me doing this swap as in also telling me what needs to be done. Another big thanks to Sk33ny for taking some of the pics needed for this write-up. And to Dori, Mo, Justin and Ku for being my third hand when I needed it. So with that said... here we go! This is going to let you know what needs to be done to make this conversion possible. It's going to explain sensor differences, what you need, what's optional and show what I personally did because of the pics. The lists will just let you know what parts you need; they will be explained at the caption of the picture to avoid less confusion and up/down scrolling. So MAKE SURE you read the captions of the pics because that is where the information will be! Since I didn't take enough pics on how to drop/lift a motor, I'm going to assume that you already know how. Along with removing the subframe IF you decide to drop it. I have found that you can LIFT the motor out which AVOIDS the hassle of the subframe. It doesn't look like you can but you CAN. Especially if you remove the radiator support and radiator... TRUST ME along with Jnaut. It's easily possible! Subframe Removal link thanks to blueroadster: http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/engin...pic-heavy.html Engine Removal link: None yet but will be inserted here when there is one! Requirements: - K24 bottom end (duhhh) - K24 headgasket, timing chain, timing chain cover - 2002-2006 CRV Passenger side Engine mount bracket P/N: 11910-PPA-000 Options: - 2002 - 2006 RSX-S oil pump, chain and baffle plate P/N: Oil Pump-15100-PRB-A01 Chain-13441-PCX-004 Baffle Plate-11221-PNC-000 - K20Z3 stock oil cooler - Any internal upgrade that you wish to do Background: These pics will be from my swap which consists of a K24A2 (TSX) bottom and and K20Z3 head and external components. But this can be put to use with the K24A1, A3, A4 or A8. Hers's a thread to help familiarize yourself.Here is the best Information about K motors - K20A.org .:. The K Series Source . Honda / Acura K20a k24a Engine Forum. The motor - K24A2: Yeah, I bought the complete long block. You only need the bottom end and it's components! So don't get confused with all the extra stuff you see attached to it! I have ALOT of stuff left over =/. Down to what you NEED (other than headstuds)...sorry but I had to include my sexy headstuds in the pic =) Oil pan off Oil pumps: You can use the stock oil pump/balance shafts. But as you guys know, it takes a bit of power to spin those shafts/weights being submerged in that oil so alot of people delete it with the RSX-S oil pump, chain and baffle plate to free up some hidden HP. BUT if you like that smooth/quiet motor feel then keep the balance shafts. Deleting the balance shafts will add a teeny bit more "engine feel". It'll feel like having a mini-torque dampener or something. But I like it =). If you go with the type-S oil pump and are using a TSX or Accord block, you will need to modify the mounting surface of the pump to accomodate the lump in the lower plate. The CRV block you do NOT have to modify the pump. It's a flat surface. Here's a few shots. Also, if you delete those balance shafts you'll have an open oil orifice in the main bearing cap #3 on the lower plate. YOU NEED TO REMOVE THE JET AND PLUG THAT HOLE OR YOU WILL HAVE VERY LOW OIL PRESSURE! Here's how! A wood screw and a 12mm honda bolt coated with RTV =) Put your oil pan back on! You can use the steel one that comes with the K24 if you keep the balance shafts but if you use the type-S oil pump you're going to have to use your aluminum one. Now that the very bottom stuff is done, lets move up! Oil cooler: The K24 does not come with an oil cooler. You can skip this step and not run with an oil cooler but I highly suggest swapping it over or running an external one. You'll need a 10mm allen key to remove the plug inside. Make sure you remember to put the O-ring in between the block and oil filter pedastal! You won't be a happy camper if you don't! TSX Civic Si The transfer... TSX Civic Si Now put that cooler/filter holder onto that TSX block! DON'T FORGET THE O-RING! Now go put your head on along with the cams, timing chain, cover. Get it all torqued down! This is a VERY good time to do your valve adjustment. Since you'll most likely have 360º access to all the rockers you may as well do it now rather than struggling to with it in the car. But if your car was perfectly quiet before, then I guess you have nothing to worry about. Be sure to lube all the components with some 10w-40 or assembly lube too. Just to help the motor stay moist =X. I did both... I also had a brand new head so it was BONE dry. Crank Pulley: You gotta use your K20 one! Notice the size difference between the TSX and K20. TSX at left and K20 at right. If you forget to use your k20 crank pulley you will DIE trying to put the belt on. Trust me, holding a non-worn out tensioner all the way open for a extended period of time is NOT fun. Especially when you realize that you put your K24 pulley on -_-. Time for the sensors. You will be transfering all of your sensors and components that attach to the block. Use all of your old stuff. Everything fit the same except for these few sensors' clips. Here are the differences... Crank Position Sensor - TSX: Left \| Civic Si: Right Knock Sensor - Civic Si: Left \| TSX: Right (yes the sensor goes into a sealed hole. It's just a microphone for our ecu plain and simple. Oil Pressure Sending Unit - Civic Si: Left(plastic connector) \| TSX: Right(metal probe) (Make sure you put some teflon tape on the threads to guarantee a seal) The CRV mount: The CRV mount is just a shorter version of the Civic Si one. It's to make up for that added height of the 2.4L block. You don't use the stud from the old mount. Just get 2 17mm bolts long enough to go through the mount and put a significant length of thread into the bracket. Now get it all back together! Might as well change the clutch and flywheel while I'm at it right?! (No I'm not tightening the pressure plate bolts all the way down with the air ratchet. I'm just getting them all snug. Everything was torqued according to spec.) The lazy way of putting a tranny on! Alright time to go back in. Sorry I didn't take that many pics so I'll just put the final few in. Make sure all your fluids are filled, bolts tightened, electrical connectors connected and start it up! Have complete silence around you while it runs... listens for any abnormal rattles, clatters, whines, howls, grinding =X, etc. Also watch for a CEL. If you have one, turn the car off immediately and double check all of your connectors and make sure they're plugged in their right spots. Then reset the battery and go for another try. If it's still on it most likely means it's an internal problem which would really suck. Immediately turn the car off and find a buddy with a scanner to figure out the code. Hopefully it's nothing that will make you slam your head through a wall. BUT if you start it and no CEL.... you've just done a frankenstien swap! Congrats and have fun! As for engine management, I'm running on the stock ecu for now. So I'm revving to 7800. Jnaut, has run with the reflash and reported that from 7900-8600 the car leaned out. But 7800 and below he was perfectly in the safe zone. Until, a stand alone comes out... I'll be sticking to the stock ecu. Any questions/corrections/reguards feel free to PM me. Last edited by mad monkey; 05-23-2008 at 04:12 AM.

05-22-2008, 04:15 AM	#7 (permalink)
Gimenez Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Orlando FL Posts: 1,310 Luis Gimenez iTrader: 0 / 0%	So what was the new redline of this swap? You use the TSX redline right? NVM... I already read the other thread Last edited by Gimenez; 05-22-2008 at 04:47 AM.

05-22-2008, 08:25 AM	#10 (permalink)
NIGHTHAWKSI Senior Member Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: long island Age: 24 Posts: 14,731 Ian iTrader: 13 / 100%	great writeup! very thorough...you make it look so easy, lol. Last edited by NIGHTHAWKSI; 05-22-2008 at 08:30 AM.

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05-22-2008, 03:51 AM	#2 (permalink)
vingavina Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,341 iTrader: 12 / 100%	nice! make sure to post vids and if you get some dyno numbers

05-22-2008, 03:54 AM	#3 (permalink)
futhermucker Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: New Orleans Posts: 393 Ronny iTrader: 3 / 100%	ah very nice very nice... now come do it on my car lmao

05-22-2008, 03:59 AM	#5 (permalink)
JDM lover Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Chino Hills!!, CA Posts: 741 iTrader: 1 / 100%	nice write up!!! i wish i had the funds to do a frankenstein.... lol.

05-22-2008, 04:48 AM	#8 (permalink)
damnu Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: San Ramon Posts: 385 iTrader: 2 / 100%	nice writeup, now i know who to goto when i need help doing mine why not run like a F/IC temporary so you could rev to the limit? or for safety sakes, just incase you 'accidently' forget to shift.

05-22-2008, 08:18 AM	#9 (permalink)
Cornizzy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bay Area (Pinole & Alameda) Age: 24 Posts: 2,853 Cornell iTrader: 0 / 0%	love it man!!

05-22-2008, 08:26 AM	#11 (permalink)
k20z3 Koop Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Mass Posts: 1,808 Keith iTrader: 5 / 100%	How does it feel?! significantly faster?

05-22-2008, 09:04 AM	#12 (permalink)
FA5VL Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: 9K RPM Pull: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x9_LwXGwmg Posts: 2,707 8TH civic hmong crew/TWFA5CREW iTrader: 6 / 100%	hm... this got me thinking! i want to see that tourque on the dyno. [=

05-22-2008, 10:40 AM	#13 (permalink)
mako8 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: The Diamond State Age: 21 Posts: 785 Josh iTrader: 0 / 0%	This is great to actually see a DIY of this swap. Let us know what it looks like on the dyno!

05-22-2008, 10:57 AM	#14 (permalink)
0720Steve Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 46,768 iTrader: 67 / 100%	yummy

05-22-2008, 10:58 AM	#15 (permalink)
rcracin13 Senior Member Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Queens, NYC Age: 22 Posts: 1,466 iTrader: 7 / 100%	you sir are awesome for doing this. congratulations on getting back on the road with a bit more torque

05-22-2008, 11:03 AM	#16 (permalink)
autoxmnstr Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 439 iTrader: 0 / 0%	did u have to extend any wire's on the hanress? do all the sensors go plug n play? I just did two swaps this week, a b16 and a type r, but this looks easier then that. i'm tryna think of what else gaev us problems...i dunno, but i'd like to do this as well, can u pm me a finished list of parts?

05-22-2008, 11:06 AM	#17 (permalink)
honda2k1typer Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Age: 24 Posts: 309 iTrader: 0 / 0%	I would actually attempt this if I completely knew what I was doing; nice though man

05-22-2008, 11:18 AM	#18 (permalink)
jdmcivic517 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Age: 25 Posts: 165 iTrader: 1 / 100%	yeah im interested in dyno number and 1/4 mile times.

05-22-2008, 03:52 PM	#20 (permalink)
razasasin Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: SJC Posts: 339 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Siickk! I'm assuming you'l be dynoing at the saturday meet?