[bluek20z3]

^^^^^^yeah thats very ture but come on it's been like 3 years so far. I mean they can make a custom reflash for Comp tech and JR Supercharger but they can't make a K-pro......GIVE ME A BREAK.

 

[ErichPryde]

Also do you have to change the TSX oil pump can the stock one stay? or can you use the Si pump what is the differnce.

easy is a relative term....

you'll either have to use the TSX oil pump or an RSX-S pump, I don't believe that the Si pump will fit. if you use the TSX pump, you could run into starvation issues at higher RPM. that's what I've heard, anyway...

An Si oil pump will fit. The TSX and Si oil pumps are the same but as what Erichpryde has said the Si oil pump can withstand the higher revs which the TSX can't since it's redline is lower.

do not use balence shaft pumps for the tsx in our cars... you need a k20a2 OR k20z1 pump.
That is the major cause for these motors failing, poor oiling.

what you could do is run a k20z3 oil pump, and swap out the the balance shafts for k24 balance shaft.

what about the K20z3 pumps

To clarify the oil pump debate:


the K20Z3 oil pump and balance shaft casing will NOT work with a K24A2. It will bolt on, but it won't actually clear the counterweights on the STOCK K24A2 crankshaft.

In addition, the K20Z3 oil pump will not bolt to the K24A2 balance shaft casing without some modification.

The oil pumps ARE different. they use different rotors and slightly different housings- in addition, the K24A2 balance shafts are thicker and heavier than those of the K20Z3. I assume it is this way to balance the heavier counterweights on the crank.

^^here are the two oil pumps and balance shaft housings, laid out from left to right. the TSX pump is the bottom row, note that the casing has parts "cut out" of it. the Si pump does not. this pieces are cut out so that the crank can clear the housing.

^not sure how well you can see the rotors in this picture (the gear looking thing) but the TSX actually has an inner rotor that comes to flat points, while the Si rotor has rounded points and the "teeth" seem to be larger. I have no idea exactly how much this will effect oil flow, but I'm sure it has some effect. The K24 pump is at the top of this picture.

in the above picture the counterweights on the crank are coming around towards the oil pump housing.

....and they contact it. see how the oil pump is raised up and away from the motor? it's resting on the counterweight. god forbid someone actually bolts an Si oil pump to a K24A2 without testing for clearance- it would be a disaster.

not sure how well you can see it, but more differences here in the actual pump housing. The Si pump is at the LEFT in this picture. note that the area in which the rotor would sit is different.

because there were differences in the oil pump housing and rotors, I decided to use a K20Z3 oil pump, and the "top" (engine side) part of a K24A2 balance shaft housing. this required me to remove the dowel pins that are pressed into the K20 balance shaft housing. I did this by halfway smashing them with vicegrips (which loosened them) and then pulling them out. the pumps bolt together pretty well after that.

basically, I have a K20Z3 oil pump and balance shafts that clears the counterweights. I have no idea if the K20Z3 balance shafts are sufficient to "balance" the motor or not, but the pump is certainly sufficient to oil the motor. considering the amount of crap I had to go through to make this work, I would strongly recommend hunting down an oil pump from a K20Z1 or K20A2 if you can find a decent price on it. In addition, if your oil pump is destroyed (which is likely if you are doing this frankenstein because your motor blew up and you lost piston 1, 2, or 3) the K20Z3 pump is about 400 dollars with an employee discount. Ordering a "pump" will get you the balance shaft housing, pump housing (cost=approx 200 dollars with a hookup), and rotors. the balance shafts themselves are seperate parts, and cost a bit over 100 each.

oh, and you can't forget the balance shaft bearings, which are something like 7 dollars apiece, and you'll need four. that's an expensive oil pump project. hnoes: I learned the hard way, but at least I got something useful out of it.


Here's what's left of my original oil pump:

parts of it, anyway.

 

[Ihockey1]

the important thing to remember is that the balance shafts in the oil pump are designed to work with a certain crank, like the k24a2 balance shafts are only supposed to be used with a motor with a k24a2 crank or the tsx motor. This is because the shafts have to spin at a certain rate, i think its like 2x or something and so that's why the weights are different. So if someone wants to use the k20z3 pump then they would essentially take apart the pump, pull the shafts, then the tricky part is using a dremel to carefully remove material from the top of the housing so that the k24 shafts will fit. I did this with a k24a1 pump and after a couple tries i got the k24 shafts to fit in the k20z3 pump.

 

[Ihockey1]

My explanation might be confusing, so here's the thread with pictures that should help A1/2/3/4 vrs K20Z3 oil pump - K20A.org .:. The K Series Source . Honda / Acura K20a k24a Engine Forum

 

[ErichPryde]

nice info! it looks like the original poster in that thread dremeled out the top of the K20Z3 pump, but I don't think he had the stock crank in his motor. if you have the stock crank, make sure that the K20Z3 balance shaft case clears the crank. if you have an aftermarket crank I'm not sure this would be a problem. looks like scourge had the exact same problem I did...

 

[mad monkey]

Nice post Erik. I'll update the OP later on and put your pics/info in there.

 

[mad monkey]

AACCTUALLYY... YOU'RE gonna have to do it since I need a mod to do the edit. I'll copy and paste the format in a PM to you and you can just copy and paste over my OP =).

 

[turbo_civak]

So is everyone that has gone with the K24 block and the K20z3 in the new SI having problems with running lean after the swap?

 

[rmfa]

This thread is awesome. I looked everywhere and didn't see the videos your promised. Cmon, youtube is EASY!!

Thanks for the updates, how is everything running?

 

[mad monkey]

So is everyone that has gone with the K24 block and the K20z3 in the new SI having problems with running lean after the swap?

No actually. Jnaut did not have a problem running lean within the normal rpm range to redline. He only ran lean between 8200-8600 because of the reflash. And erichpryde installed larger injectors during the swap and now has a CEL for running too rich. If he has no leaks in his header before the primary 02, then his injectors may just be too much which indicates that he'd be fine with stock ones. Still looking towards his update on his situation.

This thread is awesome. I looked everywhere and didn't see the videos your promised. Cmon, youtube is EASY!!

Thanks for the updates, how is everything running?

Everything's good. I've had the swap for about 22k and still no internal problems concerning the swap itself. I did a compression test a month ago and got 200 - 195 - 190 - 200. Those are the same numbers given when I did the test a week after first doing the swap. I've sprayed 75 shot on it along with a CAI and running open header with a Buddy Club. I've been spraying for maybe 15k. But still no problems except for the running rich issue. But it's not so bad once that 75 shot comes in =).

 

[turbo_civak]

Has anyone put together a list of which headers will fit and which wont? I am currently running a vibrant and just want to make sure I wont have any issues.

 

[mad monkey]

So far, no one has had any issues with the K24 in our cars. In the RSX's there was a subframe issue but I haven't found any problems with our cars with any headers yet. I'm using a BCRH and I have just as much clearance in all areas as I did with the K20.

 

[El_mahone]

Revs

Whats the deal with the limitations on reving the K24 OEM bottom end? I've seen alot of people stopping at 7100 or there abouts. It would also be cool to get a copilation of dynos from K20/K24 frankenstein motors, to see what people are doing?

 

[ErichPryde]

And erichpryde installed larger injectors during the swap and now has a CEL for running too rich. If he has no leaks in his header before the primary 02, then his injectors may just be too much which indicates that he'd be fine with stock ones. Still looking towards his update on his situation.

I don't have any exhaust leaks- I swapped the stock injectors back in and since then the "fuel system too rich" code has not returned. I'm not sure why you would be okay with 410CC or larger injectors and I'd run rich with 370CC. we have very close to the same mods.

I should dyno my car here in the next couple of days (I hope) we'll know what's going on for sure then.

Has anyone put together a list of which headers will fit and which wont? I am currently running a vibrant and just want to make sure I wont have any issues.

as far as headers go, you're moving the whole header upwards about 3/4 of an inch. I have a strup header, and I actually have MORE clearance now that my bottom end is a K24, because it moved it away from the subframe.

HOWEVER, I am having a very annoying vibration issue- because it moved upwards, the hanger attached to the strup header is now too high for the rubber connector/hanger on the subframe, and the header is vibrating horribly. I'm sure some crazy amount of rubber will solve the issue but GOOD GOD it is annoying.

I just spent the last.... hell. all night, trying to fix it. I'm dirty and tired and frustrated. I'll have to go down to Lowe's and pick up a whole bunch of rubber crap to figure something out.

Whats the deal with the limitations on reving the K24 OEM bottom end? I've seen alot of people stopping at 7100 or there abouts. It would also be cool to get a copilation of dynos from K20/K24 frankenstein motors, to see what people are doing?

If you want to set your own "safe point," you could always use the reflash redline from Hondata for the TSX as your safety point. Hondata reflashes the TSX to 7,600 RPM. I think I'll probably stick to 7,800 for right now. that very well may not be true in the future, but I don't intend to do much craziness with this car at this point.

 

[mad monkey]

Whats the deal with the limitations on reving the K24 OEM bottom end? I've seen alot of people stopping at 7100 or there abouts. It would also be cool to get a copilation of dynos from K20/K24 frankenstein motors, to see what people are doing?

Just read through the pages of this thread. The topic has been discussed 2 or 3 times before fully explaining the limits and what it can handle on average.

 

[mad monkey]

I don't have any exhaust leaks- I swapped the stock injectors back in and since then the "fuel system too rich" code has not returned. I'm not sure why you would be okay with 410CC or larger injectors and I'd run rich with 370CC. we have very close to the same mods.

I should dyno my car here in the next couple of days (I hope) we'll know what's going on for sure then.

I really have no idea. I'll continue to figure things out once I get of this stupid leg brace I got stuck on me dill Dec. 24 =/. I'm really interested in your dyno along with your a/f's. I bet you're loving that low mid-range toqrue though huh!? It's nice to be able to give it partial throttle in 6th gear and actually FEEL like you're speeding up hehe.

 

[ErichPryde]

I really have no idea. I'll continue to figure things out once I get of this stupid leg brace I got stuck on me dill Dec. 24 =/. I'm really interested in your dyno along with your a/f's. I bet you're loving that low mid-range toqrue though huh!? It's nice to be able to give it partial throttle in 6th gear and actually FEEL like you're speeding up hehe.

:yeahthat: TOTALLY agree! it's like 6th gear is how 5th used to be. downshifts on the highway? not quite as necessary.


overall, I really can't complain. just have to figure out how to stop my header from rattling and I'll be set.

 

[mad monkey]

:yeahthat: TOTALLY agree! it's like 6th gear is how 5th used to be. downshifts on the highway? not quite as necessary.


overall, I really can't complain. just have to figure out how to stop my header from rattling and I'll be set.

And that, my friend, is how we save gas with a frank swap .

I'm glad you fixed the fuel problem. It's good it was just the injectors and not an exhaust leak.

Hmmm, that's weird how your strup header gives off an annoying vibration. For about 5 months, I didn't use the rubber mount and I had no vibration. I just ended up reconnecting it when I was doing my cutout piping. And Ku, has a SSR header which doesn't even utilize that hanger whatsoever and he has no rattles. Not trying to burst your bubble or anything but a few weeks ago, shatchi, had a loud rattle on his strup header. He thought of it as nothing and then he had an exhaust leak inside the flex pipe. So on Friday Strup sent him a brand new one and he replaced it on Wednesday and no rattle and not leaks even when the subfram hanger wasn't being used. It is weird though how you're getting a rattle after not using the the hanger...

 

[ErichPryde]

And that, my friend, is how we save gas with a frank swap .

I'm glad you fixed the fuel problem. It's good it was just the injectors and not an exhaust leak.

Hmmm, that's weird how your strup header gives off an annoying vibration. For about 5 months, I didn't use the rubber mount and I had no vibration. I just ended up reconnecting it when I was doing my cutout piping. And Ku, has a SSR header which doesn't even utilize that hanger whatsoever and he has no rattles. Not trying to burst your bubble or anything but a few weeks ago, shatchi, had a loud rattle on his strup header. He thought of it as nothing and then he had an exhaust leak inside the flex pipe. So on Friday Strup sent him a brand new one and he replaced it on Wednesday and no rattle and not leaks even when the subfram hanger wasn't being used. It is weird though how you're getting a rattle after not using the the hanger...

uh-oh. it is the flex pipe that rattles. I had andrew start the car multiple times when I was under it- the flexpipe shakes around like a fiend and gives off a horrible rattle. The reason I'm looking for a piece of rubber to fit is to make it STOP rattling- when I was applying pressure to the hangers it went away....


:xyxnervou

 

[mad monkey]

Lol well good news dude. Strup acknowledges their problem and will send you a brand new one for you to replace and then you just send your defective one back =).