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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
so i've been reading up on suspension work on our civics. i've seen many people say that 1.5" is the max the civic can be lowered before handling is negatively affected. my question is, where did the 1.5 number come from? is it just from peoples' personal experience or is it from some math equation related to the suspension geometry? learn me, as i'm getting ready to lower my car. my first concern is to improve the handling and second concern is to get rid of as much wheel gap as possible without making the handling worse.
 

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the geometry of the suspension.

whoever designed the suspenion knows what theyre talking about so the suspension is just fine. a drop can be made to lower it a little and still maintain an effective setup. dropping the suspension too much can alter everything that suspension was setup for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
might not be 1.5 but thats i good number to stay at.your trying to keep as much travel as possible on the strut so it can do it jobs properly.
just curious, are you Zeusone from h-t?

the geometry of the suspension.

whoever designed the suspenion knows what theyre talking about so the suspension is just fine. a drop can be made to lower it a little and still maintain an effective setup. dropping the suspension too much can alter everything that suspension was setup for.
what do you mean, "whoever designed the suspension knows what they're talking about"? is there somebody on this site who actually worked on the suspension design? care to share the equations that came up with 1.5" from the suspension geometry?
 

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Roll center will be off so much as to negate any positive effects of the lower center of gravity and downforce.

OE ride height the R/C - I/C is optimized and matched to the spring and swaybar rates.. change the ride height, you change the suspension geometry.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
wtf. i replied and the post never showed up...

Roll center will be off so much as to negate any positive effects of the lower center of gravity and downforce.

OE ride height the R/C - I/C is optimized and matched to the spring and swaybar rates.. change the ride height, you change the suspension geometry.
i'm not familiar with the terms you're using, can you elaborate? the main thing i'm curious about, is how exactly the number 1.5 came up. i have another question for you: in another thread you said that switching from the s2 pro-s to the bc n+ coilovers won't make a difference in handling. why do you say that? judging from the reviews i've read, it sounds like the n+ is stiffer and of higher quality. i was pretty set on getting the pro-s as i'm on budget and the car is mostly used as a dd, but i am planning on taking up autocrossing this year and will go to an open track event at least once. the n+ is about as expensive as i can afford, so going with something like the pro-c isn't an option for me.

different names.
yeah, i just thought it might be the same person.
 

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wtf. i replied and the post never showed up...



i'm not familiar with the terms you're using, can you elaborate? the main thing i'm curious about, is how exactly the number 1.5 came up. i have another question for you: in another thread you said that switching from the s2 pro-s to the bc n+ coilovers won't make a difference in handling. why do you say that? judging from the reviews i've read, it sounds like the n+ is stiffer and of higher quality. i was pretty set on getting the pro-s as i'm on budget and the car is mostly used as a dd, but i am planning on taking up autocrossing this year and will go to an open track event at least once. the n+ is about as expensive as i can afford, so going with something like the pro-c isn't an option for me.



yeah, i just thought it might be the same person.
I don't think the number was calculated out, just an subjective answer based
on shock travel and suspension brand's lowered height ie. Eibach.

1.5" is the "generally accepted lowering height" as to say. but also does make sense due to the roll center being severely off.

I didn't say the Pro-S to N+ wouldn't change the handling, I said from stock to Pro-S. Pro-S has set dampers and the valving is off (too soft) for the spring rates included with the coilovers. Also, from experiences.. the shocks do not rebound from bumps as to favor handling, bumps create instability to the car. To top it off, Pro-S has spring rates that understeer.

To demonstrate a balanced setup, the dampers must be mated to the spring rates accordingly. The spring rates must also be mated accordingly to the car's attributes. If the spring rates are higher in the front in a car that understeers, guess what? It understeers more.

N+ I've driven a couple times but the spring rates for it is on the dot for decent rotation. The dampers itself is adjustable which provides some sort of suspension tuning. The only way to figure out if the coilovers have had decent to good R&D is to put them on a shock dyno.

How much are you looking to spend?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
ahh ok, i just thought that maybe there were some actual equations that people used to calculate the max drop that's good for the handling.

as for the pro-s vs. n+ thing, here's the thread i'm talking about: http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/introduction-pictures/139309-buddy-club-n-skunk2-pro-s.html . you said that upgrading from the pro-s to the n+ won't make much of a difference in handling, i was just curious on what you based it on. originally i wanted to spend as little money as possible while still getting a coilover, as my front shocks are toast and i want to lower my car. the pro-s seemed like a good idea at first but i've read about issues with build quality and about them being too soft for any spirited driving.

i'd really love to stay under $1k with shocks/springs/camber kit but i figured that its better to spend a little extra money the first time around and get a quality product vs. getting something shitty that'll have to be eventually replaced. the n+ are $1080 shipped, with the camber kit obviously being extra, and i'm not willing to spend any more than that. do you have any better suggestions for something in that price range?
 

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in one of your above posts you mentioned looking at the n+ at $1080 shipped vs the pro-s and you had read that there was some build quality issues with the skunks .

you mentioned in another post that Pro-C wasnt an option .

i was passing along information that if you arent sure on the quality of the pro-s but you wanted a third option perhaps then you might consider the Pro-C and that while more money might still be in reachable range for you financially at this time .

Tricky and I both run em and have been very satisfied .

Wasnt fuxxin with ya just tryin to be helpful /shrug
 

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you will want the softest suspension setup that controls weight transfer...lowering over 1.5 inches will decrease suspension travel to the point where absorbing bumps is secondary to skipping over them...a tire in the air is doing nothing so constant contact is vital...1.5 inches is based on trial and error among alot of autocrossers/trackers here that make the civic behave like a dump truck when slammed beyond this threshold...i am lowered around 2 inches and i did expect it to handle terrible...as i emphasize looks over performance for my civic and it does plow in the corners...body roll is well controlled but bump steer is more evident, twitchy rear end, and the absorbtion of bumps although controlled well by rebound isnt handling the bumps on compression well due to the lack of suspension travel...
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
in one of your above posts you mentioned looking at the n+ at $1080 shipped vs the pro-s and you had read that there was some build quality issues with the skunks .

you mentioned in another post that Pro-C wasnt an option .

i was passing along information that if you arent sure on the quality of the pro-s but you wanted a third option perhaps then you might consider the Pro-C and that while more money might still be in reachable range for you financially at this time .

Tricky and I both run em and have been very satisfied .

Wasnt fuxxin with ya just tryin to be helpful /shrug
i was wondering what the "300 isn't chicken feed" line was about, but i see now that you were talking about the price difference between the n+ and pro-c. i think i'll be ok with the n+, i don't think i'd use the pro-c to their full potential.
 

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i was wondering what the "300 isn't chicken feed" line was about, but i see now that you were talking about the price difference between the n+ and pro-c. i think i'll be ok with the n+, i don't think i'd use the pro-c to their full potential.
better to have them and not need them, then to need them and not have them ;)


if you look in the right places you can get Pro-Cs in the 1200s
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
better to have them and not need them, then to need them and not have them ;)


if you look in the right places you can get Pro-Cs in the 1200s
that's true, but i'm on a budget. the n+ is as much as i'm going to let myself spend on coilovers. i still need to buy camber kits, wheels, and some performance tires before heading to the open track day in june.
 
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