[PanamaSi2007]

well the TSX cam is the most aggressive intake cam there is. unless you go aftermarket there arent any other options.

i believe with superchargers blow-through is an issue, which make OVERLAP the biggest issue. If the intake and exhaust are open at the same time, the supercharger forces the intake charge into the engine with so much force the charge goes straight through the block without combustion and you lose power for this small fraction of a second when this happens.

no matter what cams you get if they have overlap you are losing power. thats why it is so hard to get the correct cams for superchargers. i'd ask around to the aftermarket companies and get their opinions. They may end up recommending Turbo cams, who knows. I haven't seen many threads on this. IMO for F/I TSX cams as a straight drop in are not the best idea, although I have heard they are great.

:sadface: I hope I haven't waste money by buying the TSX intake cam :facepalm:

 

[PanamaSi2007]

i'm surprised I havent read any recommendation towards this, IPS cams for SC K20 cars

>>>*I N T R I N S I C * P E R F O R M A N C E * S O L U T I O N S, * I N C.*<<<

That makes think it doesnt work either for SC K20Z3

I wrote to them but never replied

 

[Quarken]

IPS is MIA. If you are very lucky you might find a set of their cams on ebay.

 

[JDM_DOHC_SiR]

IPS cams are great but finding them is a different story.... I wonder if Go-Power would make a set for a SuperCharger.. hmmmm

 

[VitViper]

It's funny that anyone that knows anything about cams agrees with me.

And I have yet to see the the TSX cams make 170wtq on anything but an inflated dynapack dyno.

And Hondata has posted the TSX cam profiles... The intake cam is not more aggressive than our stock intake cam on the VTEC lobe.

 

[PanamaSi2007]

It's funny that anyone that knows anything about cams agrees with me.

And I have yet to see the the TSX cams make 170wtq on anything but an inflated dynapack dyno.

And Hondata has posted the TSX cam profiles... The intake cam is not more aggressive than our stock intake cam on the VTEC lobe.

the TSX slightly higher perhaps (almost the same)?

2009 Si K20Z3
Intake Lobes
PRI: 32.66mm
SEC: 32.82.4mm
VTEC: 35.49mm

2008 TSX K24a2
Intake Lobes
PRI: 33.42mm
SEC: 33.42mm
VTEC: 35.52mm

 

[Kenny311]

^^^Panama you're right. The TSX intake cam, while not tremendously better than the z3 intake cam, is still better on all lobes.

Vit will not reason with anyone and ignores the specs of the tsx cams.

"The exhaust cam is bigger on the primaries and secondary lobes than any other Honda made K series cam. The intake has larger primary lobes than any other K series Honda cam and a type R secondary lobe. If you have to use Honda cams, use 06 TSX cams."

6spd_ek also thought TSX cams did nothing until he saw my results. You can't argue with numbers. The simple fact is TSX cams are larger in lift and duration on every lobe over the z3 cams.

"the '06+ tsx has the same hi-cam (vtec) profile as the ITR/k20z1"

Type R Intake Cam > Z3 Intake Cam

K20A.org .:. The K Series Source . Honda / Acura K20a k24a Engine Forum - View Single Post - 06 TSX vs DC5R comparison pics inside!

 

[PanamaSi2007]

Kenny,

Thanks for your clarifications. I've realized thorugh several posts that you know your stuff for facts.

As I said, I already ordered the intake TSX cam, so it'll be installed. But, unfortunately, it wont be until Feb when a tuner from Puerto Rico visits Panama. I think I'll be one of the few (if any) with a k20Z3 SC'd with a TSX intake cam. So evenetually, I'll post results.

However, I wont be able to measure the gains with respect to TS intake cam for several changes from best dynojet run of 272whp STD, such as:

Now / to be change

Reflash Stg 2 / -> Flashpro (already installed)
Strupp header / -> Sunk 2 Mega power header
Greddy Evo 2 / -> any good 3" exhaust system
Stock cams / -> TXS intake cam

I could install, tune and dyno'd pre and post TSX intake cams, but it would cost me more tuning and dyno time.

Let's say that if I get to reach the 300 mark, I'll be happy....j/d (I'll be very happy at around 290)

 

[VitViper]

0.03mm lift on the VTEC lobe is insignificant.

toyoter91 already showed you that the TSX cams get raped just as badly by an aftermarket cam as the stock Z3 cams do. And like he pointed out, the majority of people can't swap a set of cams on their own and install cost/tuning makes the TSX cams look like a silly option when there are aftermarket cams that will out perform them everywhere in the powerband.

 

[Kenny311]

0.03mm lift on the VTEC lobe is insignificant.

toyoter91 already showed you that the TSX cams get raped just as badly by an aftermarket cam as the stock Z3 cams do. And like he pointed out, the majority of people can't swap a set of cams on their own and install cost/tuning makes the TSX cams look like a silly option when there are aftermarket cams that will out perform them everywhere in the powerband.

first off, cams dont get raped. if they did, tsx cams would do better than z3. stop ignoring low cam, primary, secondary, and even vtec lobe improvements over z3. tsx cams will outperform z3 cams everywhere but the vtec lobe, where gains are minimal.

many people like tuning cams themselves. do not tell people what they should do with their money. there are drivers out there that prefer OEM reliability and would rather not spend the extra money on the valvetrain, aftermarket cams and the install of the valvetrain. It is not so black and white as you claim it to be.

once again vit, you use "silly" in your defense and this is pure opinion. keep this crap out of cam comparisons. thank you.

the change in vtec lobes is marginal in terms of lift, however once again you fail to read the whole post. the duration on the vtec lobe of the tsx cam is much greater. duration = top end, AKA: how long the lobe holds the valve open.

you cannot measure duration with a micrometer, duration is how broad the lobe is rather than how tall it is. the height of the lobe as measured by the micrometer determines lift only.

Kenny,

Thanks for your clarifications. I've realized thorugh several posts that you know your stuff for facts.

As I said, I already ordered the intake TSX cam, so it'll be installed. But, unfortunately, it wont be until Feb when a tuner from Puerto Rico visits Panama. I think I'll be one of the few (if any) with a k20Z3 SC'd with a TSX intake cam. So evenetually, I'll post results.

However, I wont be able to measure the gains with respect to TS intake cam for several changes from best dynojet run of 272whp STD, such as:

Now / to be change

Reflash Stg 2 / -> Flashpro (already installed)
Strupp header / -> Sunk 2 Mega power header
Greddy Evo 2 / -> any good 3" exhaust system
Stock cams / -> TXS intake cam

I could install, tune and dyno'd pre and post TSX intake cams, but it would cost me more tuning and dyno time.

Let's say that if I get to reach the 300 mark, I'll be happy....j/d (I'll be very happy at around 290)

Don't worry about not getting a before and after dyno. You would be spending all the extra dyno and tuning money just to prove other people wrong. I wish i knew more about overlap, because many people think using the Type R exhaust cam is a great idea too. I'm just not sure how that will perform with F/I. You will be very happy with those upgrades though, i can easily see you hitting 300 with those upgrades.

Good luck!

 

[VitViper]

Let me again quote:

And it seems like putting 06 tsx cams into a 06+ Si would be a waste of time and money unless you got the cams, install + tune for free. They are so close to being the same size, I bet you the duration isn't very different either.

If you're spending money, IMO, spend it well and get cams that will guarantee power improvements every where through the powerband.

 

[Kenny311]

Let me again quote:



If you're spending money, IMO, spend it well and get cams that will guarantee power improvements every where through the powerband.

Vit, seriously. Enough with the opinions. You are quoting opinions as well.

Post the specs of the z3 cam lobes and the 06-08 tsx cam lobes together and then talk. You are using another person's opinion to strengthen your own. How about some facts!

At least when I quote people from k20a, they are skeptics turned believers, to some extent.

In the end, your thoughts on the cams are not wrong. They will make more power. I personally just think people will be more happy spending their money on a good set of aftermarket cams. Key word there being GOOD.

I am not trying to argue with you just to argue. I just want to voice my opinion, with my reasons behind it so people will have more information to base their own choices on.

Even your quoter is not as ignorant as you :facepalm:

How many times have I said not everyone has a wad of cash to burn on aftermarket cams.

For people in Cali, TSX cams will also pass the sniffer.

 

[Kenny311]

:sadface: I hope I haven't waste money by buying the TSX intake cam :facepalm:

Quoted from Hondata:

Tuning the TSX

Supercharging

Earlier this year we swapped a TSX engine into an EP3 Civic, installed an Integra Type R intake cam, and RSX exhaust cam and a Jackson Racing supercharger. In essence we went bigger on the intake cam and smaller on the exhaust cam. The reason for the bigger intake cam was to allow more compressed air into the cylinder. The smaller exhaust cam was to prevent blow through. Supercharged engines with too much exhaust cam can allow the intake charge to blow right out the exhaust during valve overlap.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

You'll be doing excellent with that TSX intake cam. As you know, the z3 exhaust cam is much smaller than the TSX intake cam.

 

[PanamaSi2007]

Quoted from Hondata:

Tuning the TSX



-------------------------------------------------------------------------

You'll be doing excellent with that TSX intake cam. As you know, the z3 exhaust cam is much smaller than the TSX intake cam.

Very interesting reading. Thank you.

There, I saw another animal I'd to learn about it. The swap of the K20Z3 throttle body (60mm) for a larger one, which I now there are threads about the topic.

 

[toyoter91]

Even your quoter is not as ignorant as you :facepalm:

I just want to point out that I worded that post to prove that I am not "ignorant" and that I understand the difference between opinion and fact.

I still stand behind my opinion that, unless you for some reason NEED to not replace the valve springs and retainers, the TSX cams are not worth the average persons time. Mainly because most people will end up wanting more very quickly.

And I wouldnt go after the OEM reliability too much. I have a very good friend that has a K20a2 with 132k miles on it. He put cams in the car at the 40k mark. Still running stock tensioner, stock chain, stock pump. It has a few track days on it, drives it hard, has a redline of 9100 and for most of its life it has hit redline at least a few times a week.

BP Stage 2 cams, and BP's old valve springs and retainers (ti retainers at that and the new ones are much nicer)

It put down ~255 over at church and ~235 on a dyno jet a month later. The most resent dyno was about a year ago and it put down 218. This was on Go Powers dyno pak.

 

[VitViper]

Vit, seriously. Enough with the opinions. You are quoting opinions as well.

Post the specs of the z3 cam lobes and the 06-08 tsx cam lobes together and then talk. You are using another person's opinion to strengthen your own. How about some facts!

I have yet to see any "facts" posted here aside from original cam specs, everything else is speculation and "shoulds". This is a discussion board, and part of discussion is opinion.

At least when I quote people from k20a, they are skeptics turned believers, to some extent.



Even your quoter is not as ignorant as you :facepalm:

How many times have I said not everyone has a wad of cash to burn on aftermarket cams.

For people in Cali, TSX cams will also pass the sniffer.

You'll make a believer out of me when you actually give me solid proof the cams are worth the dough. If you're doing the install and tune for free... sure they MIGHT be worth the bang for the buck. Otherwise... you're still spending a wad of cash.

People in Cali can't even run most of the GOOD performing intakes, headers, exhausts legally. Without those supporting mods any discussion about cams is irrelevant.

 

[Kenny311]

I just want to point out that I worded that post to prove that I am not "ignorant" and that I understand the difference between opinion and fact.

I still stand behind my opinion that, unless you for some reason NEED to not replace the valve springs and retainers, the TSX cams are not worth the average persons time. Mainly because most people will end up wanting more very quickly.

And I wouldnt go after the OEM reliability too much. I have a very good friend that has a K20a2 with 132k miles on it. He put cams in the car at the 40k mark. Still running stock tensioner, stock chain, stock pump. It has a few track days on it, drives it hard, has a redline of 9100 and for most of its life it has hit redline at least a few times a week.

BP Stage 2 cams, and BP's old valve springs and retainers (ti retainers at that and the new ones are much nicer)

It put down ~255 over at church and ~235 on a dyno jet a month later. The most resent dyno was about a year ago and it put down 218. This was on Go Powers dyno pak.

I did not mean to call you ignorant, merely show Vit that you have a much more calm and insightful skepticism of these cams and their gains.

What I have bolded is very true, if a few people know that they're parts are not making the most horsepower they will never be happy.

I had gone with OEM reliability because I did not want to change out the springs and retainers, a personal choice. I also wanted to be able to pass CA smog when I put my stock exhaust back on, something rather feasible with mild cams like the TSX.

It has and always will be up to the builder's choice on which cams go with. I just wished to solidify the fact that TSX cams do make power. I got rather heated at Vit after he claimed they make NO power. Their worth and other perceived, subjective values are up for debate, sure.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Kenny311]

I have yet to see any "facts" posted here aside from original cam specs, everything else is speculation and "shoulds". This is a discussion board, and part of discussion is opinion.

Cam specs are fact. Hondata's comment on the TSX cams is fact. My results are fact. Saying TSX cams do not make any power is heresay, and supported by NO facts. I have at least gone out to a dyno on my own time and shared results that are indeed fact. Whether or not they are the facts you want, I do not care.

You'll make a believer out of me when you actually give me solid proof the cams are worth the dough. If you're doing the install and tune for free... sure they MIGHT be worth the bang for the buck. Otherwise... you're still spending a wad of cash. opinion, once again

People in Cali can't even run most of the GOOD performing intakes, headers, exhausts legally. Without those supporting mods any discussion about cams is irrelevant.

No matter what setup you have, you can run cams. No, it won't make the most possible power but who is stopping them? You can't run a race header legally anywhere in the US.

 

[Kenny311]

Very interesting reading. Thank you.

There, I saw another animal I'd to learn about it. The swap of the K20Z3 throttle body (60mm) for a larger one, which I now there are threads about the topic.

now that i'm running cams i am considering going for the TSX TB swap. If that happens in the future I will most definitely share my results. However, with a supercharged application like yours, im sure gains would be significantly better than a cammed N/A application.

 

[PanamaSi2007]

now that i'm running cams i am considering going for the TSX TB swap. If that happens in the future I will most definitely share my results. However, with a supercharged application like yours, im sure gains would be significantly better than a cammed N/A application.

I'd like to find a better TB (64mm), but a real "bolt-on". If I do something before, I'll share my experience as well.