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TSX 06-08 & Si 06-09 Comparison

28292 Views 97 Replies 21 Participants Last post by  Chalán k20z3
Since I have a set of 2005 TSX (K24a2), 2009 Si (k20Z3), and 2008 TSX (K24a2) cams in my room. I might as well make a comparison for you guys. I'll will throw in Skunk2 Stage 1 cams numbers in too.

Measurement from a caliper:

2005 TSX K24a2
Intake Lobes
PRI: 33.4mm
SEC: 33.4mm
VTEC: 35.14mm

Exhaust Lobes
PRI: 33.1mm
SEC: 33.1mm
VTEC: 35.1mm

2009 Si K20Z3
Intake Lobes
PRI: 32.66mm
SEC: 32.82.4mm
VTEC: 35.49mm

Exhaust Lobes
PRI: 32.65mm
SEC: 32.7mm
VTEC: 34.7mm

2008 TSX K24a2
Intake Lobes
PRI: 33.42mm
SEC: 33.42mm
VTEC: 35.52mm

Exhaust Lobes
PRI: 33.09mm
SEC: 33.09mm
VTEC: 35.09mm

Skunk2 Stage 1
Intake Lobes
PRI: 33.9mm
SEC: 34.6mm
VTEC: 36.3mm

Exhaust Lobes
PRI: 34.54mm
SEC: 34.54mm
VTEC: 35.62mm

Intake cam TSX vs Si (TSX VTEC lobe has more duration but about the same lift)
Left side is the Si and the right side is the TSX

Exhaust cam TSX vs Si (Si Vtec lobe has more duration but less lift)

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So I'm assuming the bigger the number, the better?
To a point yes.

And it seems like putting 06 tsx cams into a 06+ Si would be a waste of time and money unless you got the cams, install + tune for free. They are so close to being the same size, I bet you the duration isn't very different either.
Well, when it comes to cams, those "little" difference make a big difference. Just go compare all the stage 1, stage 2, and stage 3. Those all have very "little" difference but they sure make different Hp.
I am fully aware of what is little and what is big when it comes to differences in cam shaft "sizes" the .027 of an inch larger on the exhaust side does help. I never said it doesn't. I was only saying that the amount of money and effort to get these cams into the car does not seem worth it.

Just by the measurement and visual comparison, I know the TSX 06+ will give more torque, low-mid power, and 5-10hp uptop.
Like I said I do know they will make a little more power throughout the rev range, I just don't think it’s worth it. I would rather toss a "bigger" cam into the motor and make more power if I am going to spend the time and money to install and pay for a new tune.

I personally think TSX cams are a great deal. You get OEM reliability and Power where you need it.

With most aftermarket cams you lose a lot of low-mid range power and only gain at the last few rpm. But now you have to deal with your chain tensioner breaking, rought idle, horrible daily driving, and increasing wear on your engine.
Can I ask you what cams you have ran that have given you any of these stated problems ?

Chain tensioner:

Our in house motor has 130k miles on its stock tensioner, just over 70k miles of those have been with aftermarket cams (not even very good ones at that), 60k of those have been with a 9100 red line, beat on pretty hard. Still works fine. The tensioners normally give out due to improper installation, oiling issues, or if someone is running one of the select few cams on the market that happen to kill tensioners. At least this is in my experience. I am sure there are a few bad ones out there that have killed tensioners even on stock cams. It happens. I am just tired of people thinking they need to buy one of the outrageously over priced tensioners if they put after market cams into their motor.

On this subject though, as a safety precaution I do recommend anyone that has a reasonable amount of mileage on their motor to replace their stock tensioner if they are cracking open the timing chain case. Stock cams or aftermarket.

Rough Idle:

Outside of VTEC killer cams, I have never seen a car have a rough idle. A tiny bit of a "lope" maybe, but never rough. Isn’t that the cool part about vtec? low speed and high speed cam profiles :D

Horrible Daily driving:

Once again, I don’t really understand what you are getting at with this one. Can you please explain how I will have horrible daily driving going with even a decently sized stage 2 style cam? We built a 270hp K24 that fired up and ran just like stock. Hell, it started quicker and got better gas mileage (mainly due to a good tune with this one) than the stock K20 that was under the hood before we put the built motor in. There are other mods that will make a far larger impact on daily driving comfort than aftermarket cams.

Increasing wear on the engine:

Yes, this part is true. Anytime you change anything on the motor, you will most likely be increasing the wear on your engine. Driving the car hard will increase the wear on your engine. It’s part of the modifying game. Anything that will cause the motor to make more power than stock technically will increase wear on the motor.

In the end, your thoughts on the cams are not wrong. They will make more power. I personally just think people will be more happy spending their money on a good set of aftermarket cams. Key word there being GOOD. There are plenty of shitball cams on the market that do ruin cylinder heads, break timing chains, tensioners, are not VTC safe ect. Just remember that not all cams are made to the same standards, and for sure have VERY different design philosophies behind them.

I am not trying to argue with you just to argue. I just want to voice my opinion, with my reasons behind it so people will have more information to base their own choices on.
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I guess skunk2 makes shitball cams :rotfl:
at one point they did. lol. It was a certain batch of cams they had that did a whole lot of damage lol
I don't see how 300 bucks and 3-4 hours of your time for 10whp up top and 170wtrq is not worth it. That is just as much is not more gains than my header for less money and the same amount of time.
I was operating under the assumption that the people were not able to install the cams themselves, as it is something most people don’t like to do on their own. So I was adding installation price into my over all opinion. Also, like I said before, I am not trying to say you will not see gains from changing over to TSX cams. I just do not think they are the best over all solution. I know some companies make drop in cams that should out power the TSX cams across the board.

I think this is an even better deal than stage 2 cams that require: cams, valvetrain, valvetrain install, tuner time, tensioner, injectors. That's 20-25 whp and the same torque for around 1500 bucks more.
Tuner time, tensioner and injectors could be removed because it’s either a wash, or not needed. A lot of stage two cams can get away with stock injectors. (plus changing over to RDX injectors is really inexpensive)

Here is a dyno of a K20A2 with RBC, race header, cold air, ect ect with the 06 TSX cams.

Here is a dyno of a K20A2 with RBC, race header, cold air ect ect and BP Stage 2 cams (not very good cams mind you)

Both had pretty much the same mods slightly different brands on a couple things, and the one with BP cams had valve springs and retainers as well.

Both were done on the same dyno, tuned by the same guys. The BP cams make **** for torque too. I would argue that the Go Power KSi would pretty much kick the BP cams ass down low, but sadly I do not have a dyno graph to back that up.

I have done stage 3 cams before and for the $$$ it takes you can easily run a SC kit for nearly the same price and have a chance at even more potential. I bet even RuloSi will vouch for this, and he will have the most NA stock block whp k20z3 soon as he dynos it.
A cheap SC kit would net a decent amount of power, with very little effort. But that’s not really what we are looking at.

Do you know how much HP ruloSi is looking to hit?
I will be happy spending less than 3000 on my entire setup with an end result around 230whp and 170 trq, with flawless reliability.
Yeah should be around 2500 or so depending on the prices and brands obviously. Even still 230 seems a bit high?

I just realized I made the mistake of not explaining why I don’t feel they are worth it outside of the HP. For some reason it completely left my mind while I typed lol. Its just that I see more people end up swapping them out later for something else that makes more HP / TQ. What triggered this opinion of mine was when I had a couple friends go through the hassle of putting different cams in only little bit down the road from the TSX cam install. Not everyone would want more, but a lot of people do. I like to try and do things only one time if need be.
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i doubt one batch of bad cams sparked them to make a k series chain tensioner.

it would have been cheaper for them to fix the cams and be done with it if there were not still a potential threat.
You should see what some other brands of cams have done to some cylinder heads... :facepalm:

And like I said before, I always recommend to replace the stock tensioner (stock cams or aftermarket cams) if you are cracking open the timing chain cover and have reasonable amount of miles on the motor. Just make sure its handled and installed correctly.

Oh and what prolly sparked them to make one, was the fact that people would buy em... they are a business after all lol. I am not saying its a bad part, I just, for the most part, don't see the need for anything other than the stock one.

though the skunk 2 one is pretty cheap, I wouldn't mind getting my hands on one.
yeah...im interested to see how the go-pwr drop-ins compare in comparison to the TSX cams. go-pwr seems to be a new powerhouse on 8th.

Can't argue with that...

Grow the grass and the cows will eat :D
I would also love to see a KSi vs BP stage 2 on the same motor comparison.
One more thing I just thought about. A lot of guys don't get a tune done on their stock cams. So they are comparing the TSX cams (tuned) to an untuned stock cam base line.

From what I have seen ( I dont have any dyno graphs handy) the TSX cam will only make 3-4hp more than stock cams when you compare them to a tuned set of stock cams.
It's pure comedy for companies to refer to their cams in stages. One companies stage 3 may be anothers stage 1.
LOL so true.

Its really fun to get cams and put them on a cam doctor and see what you find
i will be installing tsx cams on my 07. i am fully tuned on stock cams with I/H/E. i will post gains.
Awesome. Will be good info for us :)

What do you dyno currently?
Even your quoter is not as ignorant as you :facepalm:
I just want to point out that I worded that post to prove that I am not "ignorant" and that I understand the difference between opinion and fact.

I still stand behind my opinion that, unless you for some reason NEED to not replace the valve springs and retainers, the TSX cams are not worth the average persons time. Mainly because most people will end up wanting more very quickly.

And I wouldnt go after the OEM reliability too much. I have a very good friend that has a K20a2 with 132k miles on it. He put cams in the car at the 40k mark. Still running stock tensioner, stock chain, stock pump. It has a few track days on it, drives it hard, has a redline of 9100 and for most of its life it has hit redline at least a few times a week.

BP Stage 2 cams, and BP's old valve springs and retainers (ti retainers at that and the new ones are much nicer)

It put down ~255 over at church and ~235 on a dyno jet a month later. The most resent dyno was about a year ago and it put down 218. This was on Go Powers dyno pak.
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