Throwout bearing or pilot bearing?

31711 Views 19 Replies 9 Participants Last post by skiboarder119, 16 d ago

senoauex

Discussion Starter · May 16, 2011

hey guys, recently started to hear a suddle noise from my tranny. at first i assumed that it was the throwout bearing since it sounds like a spun bearing and when i pressed the clutch down the noise would go away after a half a second. the noise has continously gotten worse and now i can hear it in first gear and second gear and its very loud, its quites down in 3rd-5th but is still noticeable. i didnt think you could hear the throw out bearing in gear so now im starting to think its the pilot bearing? its a 2007 manual r18, just replaced the tranny fluid with amsoil about 2k miles ago and the noise has been happening for about 1K. anythoughts? could it be covered under warranty? my car currently has 42K on it and clutch and flywheel feel fine. when do throw out bearings or pilot bearings normally go out???

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

BigT

· #2 · May 16, 2011 (Edited)

The pilot bearing is not spinning when the clutch is engaged (pedal released). When clutch is disengaged (pedal pressed down) the input shaft of the transmission and the crankshaft of the engine are allowed to spin different speeds, and the pilot bearing between the two is spinning (or in the case of a bushing, the input shaft is spinning inside the pilot bushing). So, when in gear and driving, or even when in neutral, but your foot is off the clutch, the pilot bearing isn't spinning and wouldn't make noise even if it was bad.

You more likely have a throwout bearing issue.

senoauex

Discussion Starter · #3 · May 17, 2011

thanks alot for the quick response, would the throwout bearing be under warranty? the clutch is fine never slips at all. feels like the throwout bearing shouldnt have gone bad after 40K. also if its not under warranty, how much do you think itll be to replace just a throw out bearing at a honda dealership

BigT

· #4 · May 17, 2011

senoauex said:
thanks alot for the quick response, would the throwout bearing be under warranty? the clutch is fine never slips at all. feels like the throwout bearing shouldnt have gone bad after 40K. also if its not under warranty, how much do you think itll be to replace just a throw out bearing at a honda dealership

Warranty may cover it, particularly if the clutch is still good. But they may try to say it's a wear part.

To replace it you have pull the transmission off the engine, at which point the biggest difference in price between replacing the clutch and the pilot bearing would be the price of the parts. The labor is probably almost the same. I don't know how much they would charge, and I believe it varies slightly from dealer to dealer.

senoauex

Discussion Starter · #5 · May 17, 2011

ok thanks alot for the advice, on my way to the dealership now keep you updated

littlewing1208

· #6 · May 17, 2011

My vote would be input shaft bearing if it goes away when you press the clutch in. With the clutch out, the TOB isn't spinning. When you put light pressure on the clutch pedal so that the TOB is lightly pressed against the pressure plate fingers, if the TOB was bad, it'd make noises then (but the engine and input shaft would be still connected so you can rule out the pilot bearing as it is stationary).

My 2cents.

senoauex

Discussion Starter · #7 · May 17, 2011

I'm at the dealership right now and they just quoted me that my car is out of warranty and that if I were to replace it the tranny obvious would have to come out, pulling the tranny they said I might as well replace the clutch while its out and my car has 40K on it. They said 1500-1800 to replace everything including clutch. Is it actuallty worth changing the clutch right now or should I wait. I'm 18 in college and can't really come up with 1800 too quickly on my minimum wage job. What's your opinions guys

littlewing1208

· #8 · May 17, 2011

senoauex said:
I'm at the dealership right now and they just quoted me that my car is out of warranty and that if I were to replace it the tranny obvious would have to come out, pulling the tranny they said I might as well replace the clutch while its out and my car has 40K on it. They said 1500-1800 to replace everything including clutch. Is it actuallty worth changing the clutch right now or should I wait. I'm 18 in college and can't really come up with 1800 too quickly on my minimum wage job. What's your opinions guys

First off cool down. They need a diagnosis first.

Like I said above, I strongly feel it is the input shaft bearing which is inside of the transmission and is covered under the 5/60k powertrain warranty.

If they determine this to be the case and get warranty approval from HOA, they will do the work for no cost to you. Upon dropping the transmission, the PP/FW/clutch/TOB are accessible and if you want you can buy the parts and have them install for minimal labor (the bulk of the labor was pulling the subframe and dropping the transmission so since that is paid for, you only need to pay labor to uninstall 10 pressure plate bolts and install the parts and put it back together.

Parts for the clutch if you order from Majestic (PB/PP/clutch/TOB) is probably in the 250-300 range.

However, it may just be the ISB and everything else is fine so just get your car fixed and go on driving it till you need clutch etc.

See less See more

BigT

· #9 · May 17, 2011

senoauex said:
I'm at the dealership right now and they just quoted me that my car is out of warranty and that if I were to replace it the tranny obvious would have to come out, pulling the tranny they said I might as well replace the clutch while its out and my car has 40K on it. They said 1500-1800 to replace everything including clutch. Is it actuallty worth changing the clutch right now or should I wait. I'm 18 in college and can't really come up with 1800 too quickly on my minimum wage job. What's your opinions guys

I feel that $1500-$1800 to change a clutch is a bit high. I would search around and see what others here have paid to see if that matches up with the norm. Sounds high for a clutch.

Did they check out the car and confirm the diagnosis themselves, or did they just give you a quote on a clutch based on what you told them?

senoauex

Discussion Starter · #10 · May 18, 2011

I went in to get the noise diagnosed and to get an inspection and I told them I thought it was the throw out bearing or the isb, they said I had a 3 year or 30 something thousand mile warranty and its voided due to it being 4 years old and 42K. They said by listening and driving it they determined it to be the throwout bearing, and they quoted it to be 1750 to replace. I went to a mechanic my friends dad knows and I got a quote for 1220 there and that includes the new clutch kit. I'm gonna get a few more quotes then run this noisy bearing for another month till I can save up. Thanks a lot for your input guys. One last thing, bringing it to this mechanic is he replacing it with an oem honda clutch or an off brand one??

BigT

· #11 · May 18, 2011

senoauex said:
One last thing, bringing it to this mechanic is he replacing it with an oem honda clutch or an off brand one??

The only way to know for sure is to ask him. Aftermarket is ok in my opinion as long as it's a reputable, decent quality brand. I wouldn't bother getting a "heavy duty" or race clutch though, just a standard replacement is what I would recommend.

littlewing1208

· #12 · May 18, 2011

senoauex said:
I went in to get the noise diagnosed and to get an inspection and I told them I thought it was the throw out bearing or the isb, they said I had a 3 year or 30 something thousand mile warranty and its voided due to it being 4 years old and 42K. They said by listening and driving it they determined it to be the throwout bearing, and they quoted it to be 1750 to replace. I went to a mechanic my friends dad knows and I got a quote for 1220 there and that includes the new clutch kit. I'm gonna get a few more quotes then run this noisy bearing for another month till I can save up. Thanks a lot for your input guys. One last thing, bringing it to this mechanic is he replacing it with an oem honda clutch or an off brand one??

Again, the TOBs on Hondas just slide onto the the transmission snout and connect to the release fork. They do not snap into the pressure plate fingers like some car companies do. This means that the front race of the TOB does not spin unless the clutch is pressed since there is usually a small gap between the TOB outer race and the pressure plate fingers. So when the clutch is completely out, the TOB does not rotate.

You have been saying the noise occurs while in gear with the clutch engaged (pedal out) while driving correct?

I don't think it's the TOB..... search on "Honda input shaft bearing noise" and read some threads on Honda tech or Super honda. The dealership is obviously blowing it off since they know they can charge you for a TOB replacement, but not for an ISB replacement.

See less See more

blesstires

· #13 · Jun 5, 2011

im gettig my clutch switched out as we speak and my mechanic suggested we change the TOB while the trans is open just for precautionary measures (even though it hasnt had a TOB problem) im going with a CC stage 2 and Ultralight flyhwheel and im picking up the TOB from Hoda tommorrow:dancing:

The_Bluprint

· #14 · Jan 4, 2012

I hear a sound similar to the one your speaking of when the clutch is engaged. Mine happens during the time of disengagement of the clutch from a dead stop 1st gear. Would that be a Throw out bearing?

castro88

· #15 · Feb 20, 2012

Making the same noise

My 2007 si is making the same noise but when I take my foot off the clutch the noise goes away, but when I put my foot back on the clutch it sounds like a can rattling and won't stop today is the first day it happened.

littlewing1208

· #16 · Feb 21, 2012

castro88 said:
My 2007 si is making the same noise but when I take my foot off the clutch the noise goes away, but when I put my foot back on the clutch it sounds like a can rattling and won't stop today is the first day it happened.

Nope, your issue is textbook pilot bearing. The OP never responded, but if the noise is there with the clutch out and goes away when you press the clutch in, it's an ISB.

caliSI4

· #17 · Apr 29, 2013

this just started in my SI, loud squeak when the clutch is TOTALLY OUT (totally engaged) and in neutral, push the pedal in literally a 1/2 inch, the noise completely goes away. slow cruising next to a wall showed me that it also makes the noise in 1st and 2nd but its not loud enough for me to hear if there's nothing to relfect the sound waves. Also noticing notchy engagement in 3rd, violent bucking in 3rd and 4th when the car is cold after I hit a bump (almost like it wants to pop out but is just catching every other gear tooth or something like that). honda told me it was a TOB just as they did the OP, and that they would replace it for 600 (to be "helpful" they said). my thought is that it's an ISB and they wanted to make me pay for the tob before replacing the ISB under my certified pre-owned warranty.

See less See more

ChinoiSI

· #18 · May 2, 2013

caliSI4 said:
this just started in my SI, loud squeak when the clutch is TOTALLY OUT (totally engaged) and in neutral, push the pedal in literally a 1/2 inch, the noise completely goes away. slow cruising next to a wall showed me that it also makes the noise in 1st and 2nd but its not loud enough for me to hear if there's nothing to relfect the sound waves. Also noticing notchy engagement in 3rd, violent bucking in 3rd and 4th when the car is cold after I hit a bump (almost like it wants to pop out but is just catching every other gear tooth or something like that). honda told me it was a TOB just as they did the OP, and that they would replace it for 600 (to be "helpful" they said). my thought is that it's an ISB and they wanted to make me pay for the tob before replacing the ISB under my certified pre-owned warranty.

That sounds exactly like my issue, changing the whole clutch kit(consist of clutch,pressure plate, and throwout bearing) would just take care of that right?

caliSI4

· #19 · May 2, 2013

ChinoiSI said:
That sounds exactly like my issue, changing the whole clutch kit(consist of clutch,pressure plate, and throwout bearing) would just take care of that right?

that's what I'm hoping bro.. Im going down to my buddy at his transmission shop tomorrow to get everything looked at by someone who actually knows transmissions. If he says it's the throw out bearing, I'm just gonna replace the whole clutch, not worth it to just do the TOB if you're already in there..

through tons and tons of research though I think its a toss up between the throw out bearing or the input shaft bearing.. im just hoping it's not the ISB, I'm still under warranty but I know honda would be a pain in the ass even though it's an internal tranny part. From the vids Ive seen though ISB's rarely squeak, they sound like they're grinding, so there's a good chance that what we're experiencing is a tob

skiboarder119

· #20 · 16 d ago

I wanted to correct what I believe to be incorrect information in a few of the posts above for future readers. The front face of the "throw out bearing" or "clutch release bearing" does indeed spin on our cars 100% of the time (at least it does on mine). I have a new clutch master cylinder, new slave cylinder, new clutch, new pressure plate, "throw out bearing", pilot bushing, and resurfaced flywheel (all stock parts). I was getting a squealing when my foot was not on the pedal, but as soon as I touched the pedal it would go away (turns out my clutch release fork retaining spring had been not properly attached by my mechanic - had nothing to do with the "throw out bearing").

Because of this spent a lot of time peering through my clutch release fork window. I removed the boot (I am waiting for a new one to come in the mail) so I put the car back together and turned it on. I actually can see the "throw out bearing" from the side and I can tell which is the front face. I'm using a nice inspection mirror and 8000 lumen directed from 2 directions. If I manipulate the clutch fork by hand, while watching the "throw out bearing", I can push back against the pressure of the hydraulic system and see the front face pull back and stop moving after a few seconds, but this is with the slave cylinder piston in way further than it will ever sit on its own. As soon as I release the clutch fork it settles the "throw out bearing" back on the fingers of the spinning pressure plate and starts spinning again. I even have adjusted my pedal to have an excessive amount of free play to make sure the CMC isn't preloaded by the pedal. I think the key here is that there is hardly any load on the "throw out bearing". The Honda service manual hints at this no load condition that the hydraulic system applies - saying the system is "self adjusting" as the clutch wears.

Also, now that I think about it, I've seen people who had worn out fingers on their pressure plates because their "throw out bearing" had been bad for a while and they just kept driving it.

See less See more

1 - 20 of 20 Posts