[civic tech]

I got one from harbor freight tool store for about $9.99 :laughing:. I know its a cheap quality but i use it once a year.. if that.

Funny thing about that is i have been working at a dealership for about 2 years now and i use the half inch harbor freight breaker bar every day and it is holding up just as good as all my snap on tools.

 

[NonStopTuning]

I have added the following to the FAQ section...

8. How hard is installation? Can you provide tips or a DIY guide?
There is a good DIY guide on the forums for the R18 Kit and I will see what I can do about getting you another good DIY installation guide for the K20.

In the meantime, installation should not be too difficult if you have previous experience with wrenching on your civic. Chances are if you did your own intake, header, or exhaust, that you should be able to tackle this in a couple hours with the proper tools.

Ofcourse if you are the least bit hesitant, or uncomfortable with trying this yourself, you should seek the assistance of a trained professional. NST can not be held responsible in any way, shape, or form for any damage due to improper installation. DIY installations are performed entirely at the risk of you, the end user.

Having said all of the above, may I recommend a tool to help the DIY guys...
Crank Pulley Holding Tool for Honda and Acura

This is a very handy tool and holds the OEM crank pulley in place so that you can remove the crank bolt without the pulley spinning in place. I have personally used this tool with a couple of cheater bars and extensions. It works every time!

Good luck and have fun with all your projects everyone!

 

[sidecut305]

Having said all of the above, may I recommend a tool to help the DIY guys...
Crank Pulley Holding Tool for Honda and Acura

I think this may be the cheapest around...if anyone is considering getting that tool...

Amazon.com: Powerbuilt 648796 Honda Crankcase Pulley Removal Tool: Home Improvement

 

[Debo]

good read.

 

[OrdnanceMarine]

I've removed the crank pulley from 3 of 4 Hondas I've owned (2 for timing belts and my Si to install the NST pulleys) and two other '07 FG2s. First one I tried different air wrenches and didn't succeed until I rented a 3/4" 1000+ ft-lb model and boosted it to my compressor's max of 150 psi. Second one I used the "put it in gear and have someone step on the brake while you struggle your butt off beneath the car with a 24" long breaker bar with a 36" long pipe slid over the end for enough leverage to finally crack the torque" which basically sucked as much as the first method but didn't cost me as much. FINALLY when I installed my NST kit a few weeks back I decided to try the "starter trick". I posted about this in the DIY thread but to sum it up it was so easy I busted out laughing once I did it. I used this method for the other two Si's we did in my garage a few days later and it worked like magic then as well. Search the thread and do it this way. The rest of the install is pretty simple, especially if you pull the cross member that sits above the radiator to give you easy access to the alternator for those of us that don't have the "shell" wrench to lock out movement from the alternator while cracking the torque on the nut.

Anyway, I noticed an improvement right away in first gear (the benefit of reduced mass is proportional to how quickly you are accelerating the mass, so first gear is where you're going to get the most benefit) and have not noticed any sort of problem. You might consider using the OEM crank pulley as a discus, paper weight, barbell, etc because the weight reduction is amazing.

It's one of those mods that you totally forget about after a few days because you don't hear, feel or see it working. You just have reduced driveline inertia giving you better acceleration/less fuel consumption.

Besides that, they look great! If you have the Ingalls Stiffy ETD than you'll have to do some minor modifications to the bracket to get clearance as you can see in the pictures below.

 

[NonStopTuning]

Thank you for the comprehensive review sir, we certainly do appreciate it.

For the rest of you who own NST pulleys, please be sure to chip in with your thoughts and comments. I'm very confident that your fellow board members will find your reviews informative and useful.

:clapping:

 

[Whocares05050]

It takes about 1-1.5 hours to install the crank pulley and about an additional 30-45 mins for each additional pulley on average. Of course this depends on your mechanical ability and as you do more it goes quicker.

Took me 15 minutes to install the crank pulley, 12 minutes to install the alternator pully, and 5 minutes to install the idler pully. Of course it also took me about 15-20 minutes to get all of the plastic and shrouds and **** out of my way, but install was pretty easy. I love my pullys.

 

[ASHRAF]

Thanks for the info Mike, and sure I will get a kit soon, just trying to decide if I wanna up the boost anytime soon, and what would be the best way to go for me

I'll see you, and talk more about it at the next NST meet, glad you guys are local :thumb:

 

[NonStopTuning]

Thanks for the info Mike, and sure I will get a kit soon, just trying to decide if I wanna up the boost anytime soon, and what would be the best way to go for me

I'll see you, and talk more about it at the next NST meet, glad you guys are local :thumb:

Thank you sir, I appreciate the kind words. Feel free to catch me at the next NST meet and I would be more than happy to chat with you in great detail regarding pulleys for your setup.

:vtec:

 

[NonStopTuning]

I know a few of the Texas based Civics came out to our last NST meet and sounded like they'd like to hear about the next one.
So I am posting a link here as well...

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/texas/110486-next-nst-meet-aug-22-2008-a.html

As usual, we will have a big raffle with some great prizes, food and drinks, and Q&A sessions between customers and the NST staff.
See you soon guys!!!

NST Meets are always open to all makes and models, so feel free to invite your friends!

 

[OrdnanceMarine]

I know a few of the Texas based Civics came out to our last NST meet and sounded like they'd like to hear about the next one.
So I am posting a link here as well...

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/texas/110486-next-nst-meet-aug-24-2008-a.html

As usual, we will have a big raffle with some great prizes, food and drinks, and Q&A sessions between customers and the NST staff.
See you soon guys!!!

NST Meets are always open to all makes and models, so feel free to invite your friends!

:thumb: By the way, when I was down at Church Automotive near Long Beach back in May that Scion (or one that looked exactly like it) was being dyno tuned while I was doing my Hondata reflash. I noticed the NST logo on the side of it. They were testing a TRD intercooler on it and with nothing but straight pipes it was LOUD!!!

 

[leeban]

All of the information that you have provided has been great, I apreciate how detailed this thread is and ordered a set last week after having all my questions answered about these pulley sets.

Now I cant wait for the kit to actually ship, I want these things bad !!!

Thanks again !

 

[NonStopTuning]

All of the information that you have provided has been great, I apreciate how detailed this thread is and ordered a set last week after having all my questions answered about these pulley sets.

Now I cant wait for the kit to actually ship, I want these things bad !!!

Thanks again !

Thank you very much Lee!

You are on our priority waiting list and your kit will ship via USPS Priority Mail ASAP. Please be sure to share your thoughts and comments with us here after your kit is installed.

Good luck and have fun with all your projects!

:vtec:

 

[NonStopTuning]

:thumb: By the way, when I was down at Church Automotive near Long Beach back in May that Scion (or one that looked exactly like it) was being dyno tuned while I was doing my Hondata reflash. I noticed the NST logo on the side of it. They were testing a TRD intercooler on it and with nothing but straight pipes it was LOUD!!!

That's the one! First factory backed wheel to wheel road race tC. This car is TRD Supercharged and has been running NST products since day one. The car competes in the SoCal NASA Series and the Grand Am series as well. Look for coverage on SPEED!

:vtec:

 

[NonStopTuning]

A few more pics of NST sponsored race cars...

:vtec:

 

[BV1]

Hey Mike, one thing I didnt see you touch on. I've had a few pulleys in the past, as well as my share of modded cars.

If import tuner did their dyno in 4th gear, then the 4-5 or so WHP shown is a truly impressive gain. As you said, a reduction in rotational mass frees up HP, it doesn't create it.

The additional underdrive assists to free up more HP the lighter mass "missed" so to say.

One thing about rotational mass. Its benefits are directly relative to the gear the car is in. The lower the gear number, the better the gains. If this system gains 4-5 WHP in 4th gear, then in 1st gear the gains will be more.

In 6th gear, the gains are no longer from the reduced rotational mass but from the underdriving of the accessories alone. This is because as the RPM change per second (RPM delta) approaches 0 (steady RPM under full load) so do the gains by a reduction in rotational mass. In other words, at near top speed of the vehicle, nearly the entire output of the engine is going to the wheels and since the rotational speed of the engine is not changing (near steady at say 7500 RPM) their is no wasted energy in accellerating the pulleys meaning theirs gains are minimized in this condition.

However as I said, the opposite is true in 1st gear. The gains are amplified the greater the RPM delta.

Also one thing that I have noticed with my past pulley kits is the "RPM fall" between gears is faster due to the less kinetic energy stored in the pulley system. Since our cars are known to have rev hang issues, this is of great advantage to us.

A system with less kinetic energy is a system with less rev hang.

I have yet to get the NST kit, but as I said before, a well designed pulley system is a solid investment and gain. For me there is no question about what to expect, however, a gain of 4-5WHP in 4th gear is as I said, incredible for a pulley system. I have seen gains of 1-2WHP on previous cars and still felt a great difference with the new system. The larger RPM range does really assist the Si.

The 4th gear 4-5WHP means the gains in 1st-3rd gear will be larger and therefore this mod is a must have for anyone running the strip as from the start line you will be leaving with a few more ponies to the ground.

I don't want to speculate, but it could be calculated using the gear ratios and converting from 4th to 1st but its not a linear conversion, you must know the entire rotational mass, not just the pulley system.

-Steve

 

[ChinoiSI]

i think this will be my next mod, good write up, made it an interesting reading.

 

[NonStopTuning]

Hey Mike, one thing I didnt see you touch on. I've had a few pulleys in the past, as well as my share of modded cars.

If import tuner did their dyno in 4th gear, then the 4-5 or so WHP shown is a truly impressive gain. As you said, a reduction in rotational mass frees up HP, it doesn't create it.

The additional underdrive assists to free up more HP the lighter mass "missed" so to say.

One thing about rotational mass. Its benefits are directly relative to the gear the car is in. The lower the gear number, the better the gains. If this system gains 4-5 WHP in 4th gear, then in 1st gear the gains will be more.

In 6th gear, the gains are no longer from the reduced rotational mass but from the underdriving of the accessories alone. This is because as the RPM change per second (RPM delta) approaches 0 (steady RPM under full load) so do the gains by a reduction in rotational mass. In other words, at near top speed of the vehicle, nearly the entire output of the engine is going to the wheels and since the rotational speed of the engine is not changing (near steady at say 7500 RPM) their is no wasted energy in accellerating the pulleys meaning theirs gains are minimized in this condition.

However as I said, the opposite is true in 1st gear. The gains are amplified the greater the RPM delta.

Also one thing that I have noticed with my past pulley kits is the "RPM fall" between gears is faster due to the less kinetic energy stored in the pulley system. Since our cars are known to have rev hang issues, this is of great advantage to us.

A system with less kinetic energy is a system with less rev hang.

I have yet to get the NST kit, but as I said before, a well designed pulley system is a solid investment and gain. For me there is no question about what to expect, however, a gain of 4-5WHP in 4th gear is as I said, incredible for a pulley system. I have seen gains of 1-2WHP on previous cars and still felt a great difference with the new system. The larger RPM range does really assist the Si.

The 4th gear 4-5WHP means the gains in 1st-3rd gear will be larger and therefore this mod is a must have for anyone running the strip as from the start line you will be leaving with a few more ponies to the ground.

I don't want to speculate, but it could be calculated using the gear ratios and converting from 4th to 1st but its not a linear conversion, you must know the entire rotational mass, not just the pulley system.

-Steve

All very good points Steve. Thank you for the well thought out and well written contribution to this thread.

I will only add this... while it is true that some of the gains are from the weight reduction ( and a great amount of throttle response which can not be measured on the dyno ) a great amount of the HP and TQ gains are due to the principle of underdriving. Underdrive (slowing) of the accessories such as the water pump, power steering, and air conditioner lead to more power being available to drive the wheels.

Thanks again for the great post, much of what you have posted is very good reading material for your fellow board members here. Good luck and have fun with all your future projects!

:vtec:

 

[TEACAK]

Will NST make a kit that doesn't underdrive/overdrive any accessories? For people that live in the southwest like me (I live in Texas), and that don't really have any plans to upgrade audio, I believe it would be more beneficial to have lightened pulleys but without the underdrive on the A/C system. I'm not sure how many other people have noticed but the Si's air conditioning doesn't work as well at idle as it does at higher RPMs. I wouldn't want to lessen this any more, and would be willing to "sacrifice" any "gains" that overdriving the alternator would give me.

EDIT: I just saw the post saying that you are posted up in Houston. Does the underdriving of the accessories really affect the A/C that much?

Also, another question: I've read that people are having to use ~800ft-lb (give or take) to remove the crank bolt. I can see that there are several methods, but my question is: does it need to be replaced to the same tightness that it was? I can't hardly see how people are getting it back to that point if they are using the "starter trick" to get it off. What would be an acceptable torque to put on the bolt?

 

[BV1]

I used the starter trick a number of times before, worked good on my other cars. I used the impact wrench to put it back on. You could use a SMALL dab of locktite, if you were really worried about it backing off on its own.

But I didn't, I know it won't be coming off even if its not TQ'd as tight as before. Not to mention the new aluminum is softer then the old iron, so you want to be careful. Alot of the extra TQ needed to get the old pulley it off is from the continued heat / expansion / corrosion.

-Steve