who held the event and was it ccw or cw?

how did u manage to get -3 up front btw?

 

Yesterday was a good moment when my civic did 1:30 at streets of willow with the new pavement and the bowl.

I'm still running no cumber kit on the rear with -3 neg
The car was handling so well and I'm wondering if it will make even more difference if I use the cumber kit and run less cumber in the rear. (I have -3 on the front) Any thoughts from you racers?

Buddy club
Hondata
Greddy catback
INJEN cold air.
Toyo R888
Stock brakes.

Camber you mean right? you want it more balanced so negative in rear also less then front of course!

 

how did you get -3 in the front??? you have a fg right?

 

i think the important question is which way the car ran the track and what was the exact time, to get a concept of how fast the car ran.

Also, i think he's saying he has neg 3 camber in the back? with stock camber in the front? i would definitly suggest you adjust your rear camber

 

:scratches: was there even any open track time on streets this week?

 

We had a private event hosted by my work The Speed Gallery in Studio City. We are racing CW with the full configuration and the bowl including that now streets is paved new in many sections of the track.

My camber is neg-3 front and about -2.75 rear do to the drop with the suspension Buddy Clubs.

 

its hard to believe u ran that time on stock brakes...

 

Which direction is harder? ccw or cw? 1:30 secs on stock brakes is pretty difficult to believe too because that kind of time is reserved for race preped cars for CCW. I raced with ultimate axxis and street tires (khumo mx) and ran 1:37x CCW fyi.

 

Opps, I was racing on the full course with the bowl and blowpass. I didn't notice that there was track that was just "streets of willow CW/CCW". =)

 

CW is slower for most people CCW normally is a second faster.
As far as the timing yes was consistent around 1:30

So my reason for the post was to see if I take some negative camber from the rear if that will help handle even better?

I personally was doing 1:33 CW but I had a pro driver from Daytona Prototype cars drove it and did the 1:30 after driving it for the first time and only 3 laps.

 

That's an awesome time for your car that has those kinds of mods. How did you get a pro driver to show you your car's capabilities? I'm looking online at speedventures.com (march 31, willow spring CW ) and here's a list of cars that are in your territory ~+1/-1 secs:

lap time speed make/model tires hp
1:29.182 72.660 Porsche 911 GT3 2004 Street 400
1:29.620 72.310 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 2008 Race 0
1:29.757 72.190 BMW M3 LTW 1995 Race 340
1:30.331 71.740 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution MR 2005 Race 390
1:30.819 71.350 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 2006 Race 312
1:30.995 71.210 Honda Civic Si 2006 Race 260

Looking at your car and time gives me a lot of hope that each mod I add while improving my driving skills will hold a time that's just as competitive as those high end cars. As for the negative camber issue, slightly more negative camber in front than the backs leans towards oversteer.

 

.....I'm looking online at speedventures.com (march 31, willow spring CW ) and here's a list of cars that are in your territory ~+1/-1 secs:

lap time speed make/model tires hp
1:29.182 72.660 Porsche 911 GT3 2004 Street 400
1:29.620 72.310 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 2008 Race 0
1:29.757 72.190 BMW M3 LTW 1995 Race 340
1:30.331 71.740 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution MR 2005 Race 390
1:30.819 71.350 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 2006 Race 312
1:30.995 71.210 Honda Civic Si 2006 Race 260

Looking at your car........

hey, thas me in the Honda c200 (si) haha, that was one of our fastest laps (definitely goin after my boy's gt3 next time though)

 

Good job. 260 HP? Turbo or SuperCharger?

How much camber you are running on the rear and front?

With the blowpass yes.

 

he's NA... beautifully NA

 

whats a blowpass btw?

 

I believe it's an additional section of the track that is open. Here's a link to track map, but it doesn't label the blowpass...I've only raced on this configuration track at streets of willow so I can't tell you the difference just yet.

http://www.speedventures.com/images/StreetLg.gif

 

Tire Temps ($80 Probe type Pyrometer .. Longacre etc) will tell you what needs to happen from a Camber perspective ... (Do NOT use IR / Laser style ..they are NOT accurate enough to measure core belt temps)

This purchase will be the best "speed" mod you can do ... it will help optimise the tire setup and extend the tire life.


This is the ONLY way to setup your car to match YOUR driving style and YOUR specific suspension setup ... generic camber / caster / toe settings are just that generic ... you need to optimise to YOU ..and to do so you have to see what YOUR tire are doing ....and your tires will tell you by the heat that builds up in the various parts of the tires.




Measure across the tread as SOON as you come off the track in three spots on each tire ... inside, middle, outside, Then look at the following ... (there are subtle variations ...but this will get you into the ball park)


-If the inside of the tire is hotter, you have too much camber (tire is running to much on the inside of the tire thus getting hotter)

-If the outside of the tire is hotter you do not have enough camber (tire is running to much on the outside of the tire thus getting hotter)

-If the center of the tire is hotter, you have TO much tire pressure (tire is "bowing out in the middle from too much pressure)

-If both outter edges are hotter, you do not have enough tire pressure. (Tire is bowing in from too little tire pressure)

Ultimately you want a fairly even tire temperature with a bit more heat towards the outer edge on the "outside" tires (Left tires CW track direction, Right tires CCW track direction)

This will maximise you contact patch and keep the tire from getting to hot in one area and damaging it hunking)

You also do not want to exceed the maximum tire temp or you will see the tires start to "go off" ... optimum is arround 200F

Snip from Toyo

General Proxes R888 setup guidelines:

Operating Temperature: 140°F to 220°F, optimum around 200°F
Hot Inflation Pressures: High 30s to Low 40s (psi)
Camber: -2.5° to -5.0°
Caster: As much positive as possible

Moose

 

Tire Temps ($80 Probe type Pyrometer .. Longacre etc) will tell you what needs to happen from a Camber perspective ... (Do NOT use IR / Laser style ..they are NOT accurate enough to measure core belt temps)

This purchase will be the best "speed" mod you can do ... it will help optimise the tire setup and extend the tire life.


This is the ONLY way to setup your car to match YOUR driving style and YOUR specific suspension setup ... generic camber / caster / toe settings are just that generic ... you need to optimise to YOU ..and to do so you have to see what YOUR tire are doing ....and your tires will tell you by the heat that builds up in the various parts of the tires.




Measure across the tread as SOON as you come off the track in three spots on each tire ... inside, middle, outside, Then look at the following ... (there are subtle variations ...but this will get you into the ball park)


-If the inside of the tire is hotter, you have too much camber (tire is running to much on the inside of the tire thus getting hotter)

-If the outside of the tire is hotter you do not have enough camber (tire is running to much on the outside of the tire thus getting hotter)

-If the center of the tire is hotter, you have TO much tire pressure (tire is "bowing out in the middle from too much pressure)

-If both outter edges are hotter, you do not have enough tire pressure. (Tire is bowing in from too little tire pressure)

Ultimately you want a fairly even tire temperature with a bit more heat towards the outer edge on the "outside" tires (Left tires CW track direction, Right tires CCW track direction)

This will maximise you contact patch and keep the tire from getting to hot in one area and damaging it hunking)

You also do not want to exceed the maximum tire temp or you will see the tires start to "go off" ... optimum is arround 200F

Snip from Toyo


Moose

amazing and informative... great post

 

i still dont unerstand how u got -3 in the front i got 2.25 - 2.50 with my camber plates as far in as possible and the camber bolts all the way in...

 

Just went at streets again yesterday with ACRA

Also had my new alignment and turns out that I have -2.5 neg on front. and -3 on the rear.

Took tire temps on the front was good 140-160 all even across
But the rear was bad outside was 80 middle was 90 and inside was 119 all that with -3 neg on the rear.

I will be ordering the SPC kit that takes -1.25 degree maximum out

I guess, I will settle for -1.75 on the rear.

 

Great!!! ... once you get the tire temps optimised by getting your camber right, you know that you have got your contact patchs close to optimised. To help initial turn in, you can play a bit with front Toe out to get the response you are looking for.


How low are you on the C/O's ... anything below 1" of drop and the roll centers start to get funky ... beyond 1.5" they pretty much go below-ground. You have to go nuts and compensate with high spring rates to keep the roll moments minimised.

I would reccommend that you get the car corner balanced ... this will allow you to better analyse what is happening (from a handeling perspective) as the car will respond evenly and repeatbly under all conditions (RH / LH corner Braking / Accelerating) This will help you make educated decisions on what next in the setup needs to be addressed in each stage of the corner (Entry / Mid / Exit)


You can then start to look at Spring rates, spring rate stagger (F/R), swaybar sizes and stagger, and Damping to tune the transitional and steady state charateristics thru all stages of a corner.



Moose

 

Not a bad time . I will be doing some testing with my FA5 at streets once i get some tires that can hold up to heat better than the stock michelins.

Your tire temp in the front sounds very typical for a front wheel drive car. Can't really comment on anything else unless we have some data + video but keep up the good work.

 

Thanks for the info,

Yea, my car has way over 1.5 drop I've been thinking of raising up a bit. because of the roll center.