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So it always makes me think, when a car comes along, such as the 06 Civic Si, with a hp rating of 197hp, just 3 shy of the distinctive level of 200. Anyone think there's some kind of marketing thought put behind this? I'm thinking, how hard would it be for Honda to squeeze out 3 more ponies to push it to the 200 level, but no, they keep it at 197. Another would be the RSX-S @ 201hp... why the extra 1hp, especially when it USED to be rated exactly 200. Is that extra 1hp worth all the fuss?

Maybe I'm fishing in an empty pond here, but just curious if anyone else wonders if there's more than meets the eye here?
 

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well i think that all the brands hit an X number of HP's to the crankshaft
but after the standards like SAE i think is not in their hands... they just figure out an amount of power but the real thing is other
BTW u know that the HP's thats anounced on the brochure and commercials isnt the real HP's
 

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jandree22 said:
So it always makes me think, when a car comes along, such as the 06 Civic Si, with a hp rating of 197hp, just 3 shy of the distinctive level of 200. Anyone think there's some kind of marketing thought put behind this? I'm thinking, how hard would it be for Honda to squeeze out 3 more ponies to push it to the 200 level, but no, they keep it at 197. Another would be the RSX-S @ 201hp... why the extra 1hp, especially when it USED to be rated exactly 200. Is that extra 1hp worth all the fuss?

Maybe I'm fishing in an empty pond here, but just curious if anyone else wonders if there's more than meets the eye here?
Honda rated the Si at 200hp, but SAE (with new standards in affect) revised it to 197. Honda/Acura Rated the RSX-S at 210hp, but SAE rated the RSX at 201hp. The 201 for the rsx goes in affect for the 2006 model, even though they have the same motor.
 

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jandree22 said:
So it always makes me think, when a car comes along, such as the 06 Civic Si, with a hp rating of 197hp, just 3 shy of the distinctive level of 200. Anyone think there's some kind of marketing thought put behind this? I'm thinking, how hard would it be for Honda to squeeze out 3 more ponies to push it to the 200 level, but no, they keep it at 197. Another would be the RSX-S @ 201hp... why the extra 1hp, especially when it USED to be rated exactly 200. Is that extra 1hp worth all the fuss?

Maybe I'm fishing in an empty pond here, but just curious if anyone else wonders if there's more than meets the eye here?
I guess you could call it a little marketing but for all intents and purposes, the engine is the same as the RSX-S. The reason both aren't rated higher is because of the new SAE standards, so of course, Honda (or any other manufacturer) isn't going to market the car otherwise, even though during concept, they spec'd the engine to be 200hp. That said, Honda underrates their engines anyway. So if the Si and RSX-S share the same engine, you'd assume they'd both be rated at 201, but the Si is equipped with balance shafts to reduce engine vibration, which subsequently rob the engine. Also, 100hp per liter is a lot sexier than 98.5 hp per liter, so I don't think their marketing department was too happy with that. But that's just my take on it.
 

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The tiny bit of HP loss in the Civic is supposedly due to a balancer shaft. I also don't know about Honda underrating their engines. I am a Honda guy but if they underrated, why did the HP ratings go down for the RSX? They may have underrated some cars but I recall Honda overrated quite a few. Toyota also OVERRATED and Mazda too (can anyone say RX-8?).

I wonder if the 197 HP will help with insurance premiums. Apparently GM has underrated cars so that their customers will pay lower insurance rates.
 

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chris06si said:
tov dynoed it and drove theirs and got 204 a few times they put up a video on a post too to prove it

Yeah but there dyno is at the hub and there dyno reads higher than other same brand dynometers. Its probably the same WHP as the RSX-S. I still don't know why companies are just dynoing cars at the wheel.
 

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nindoo said:
Yeah but there dyno is at the hub and there dyno reads higher than other same brand dynometers. Its probably the same WHP as the RSX-S. I still don't know why companies are just dynoing cars at the wheel.

They've also yet to dyno it after the aftermarket parts were added. :D

They're estimates are between 250-275hp. hehe...:cool:
 

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Scourge said:
The tiny bit of HP loss in the Civic is supposedly due to a balancer shaft. I also don't know about Honda underrating their engines. I am a Honda guy but if they underrated, why did the HP ratings go down for the RSX? They may have underrated some cars but I recall Honda overrated quite a few. Toyota also OVERRATED and Mazda too (can anyone say RX-8?).

I wonder if the 197 HP will help with insurance premiums. Apparently GM has underrated cars so that their customers will pay lower insurance rates.

Um...nah...Mazda definitely overrated the RX-8...lol. But I think the GSR if I'm not mistaken was underrated, as well as the S2000. Not by much, but it's a common practice to overrate or underrate engines. Can anyone say SRT-4? lol.
 

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skittleslegend said:
They've also yet to dyno it after the aftermarket parts were added. :D

They're estimates are between 250-275hp. hehe...:cool:
[

can you find me that link cuase i've been looking for it over on tov and couldn't find the dyno after the parts cuase they havn't updated anything cuase there at sema....
i did read where it say's they added 18tq and 23 hp or somthing like that after the CAI/Ex/header where install and they said it was a bit lean.....

and its similar to the type s's engine but it shares all new features like the balanced shaft and the motor mounts and different front sway and oil-pan
thing its a K20Z3s the euro accord R motor.
 

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I was saying they haven't done it yet. They'll do it this week sometime because everyone who knows about their project and has some interest in it, is interested to see what it's running. They also need the ECU back from Hondata. At the time, they were running an RSX-S ECU tuned slightly until they got the Si's ECU back. Hondata was having a heck of a time, I here because of the DBW. They're one of the very few companies trying to even tackle that stuff. And you're correct, the balance shafts are what suck the 3 hp out that keeps it from the 200 mark, and the oil-pan and, if I'm not mistaken, header, are from the Euro Accord R.
 

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No way your going to get 250-275 with simple bolt-ons your going to need forced induction to get numbers like that or serious engine work
 

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dtexan said:
No way your going to get 250-275 with simple bolt-ons your going to need forced induction to get numbers like that or serious engine work
That's not entirely true. Honda Tuning is running a project Type-S and is using TODA parts and ECU tuning and got up to 50hp in one session, without forced induction. It's going to probably cost you more money to get up there NA but it can be done. Cams alone are a decent boost in hp, which is why they need the car tuned. I've seen a few GSR's with Type-R cams that've gotten quite a bit out of them. But K's are flexible as hell...

Also, keep in mind, were talking hub, not wheel hp.
 

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skittleslegend said:
They've also yet to dyno it after the aftermarket parts were added. :D

They're estimates are between 250-275hp. hehe...:cool:

Yeah they got cams, exhaust, intake. I wonder if they got the ECU tune. 350z can't seem to loose me :D
 

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dtexan said:
No way your going to get 250-275 with simple bolt-ons your going to need forced induction to get numbers like that or serious engine work
Hondas traditionally have restricted engines and respond well to mods (with the exception of the s2k). Those #s are very possible
 

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skittleslegend said:
They've also yet to dyno it after the aftermarket parts were added. :D

They're estimates are between 250-275hp. hehe...:cool:
Ok thats just bullshit even with the cams, thiers no way they jumped from 204 hub hp to 275 or even 250, so be quiet.

The Si is basically the same engine as the RSX Type S.

The difference. Si puts out 201 hp, which is 197 SAE. The reason its less than the RSX is it has a balance shaft to make it rev smoother.

The RSX doesnt have the balance shaft, which is why it makes 210 hp or 201 SAE.
 

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ever12 said:
Hondas traditionally have restricted engines and respond well to mods (with the exception of the s2k). Those #s are very possible

Really so my RSX with boltons that dynoes at 204 hp at the wheels, is really putting out 275...wow thats amazing.

And its cool how it goes against all physics and car knowledge from the past 100 years...hmmm but its a honda so you never know...STFU.

THOSE NUMBERS ARE NOT RIGHT, and bolt ons will never yield that much power unless your driving a turbo-diesel. So get over it.

Dude im not trying to be an ass, but seriously come on.
 

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Not to stir the pot, however, 06EX, the dynos for the stock figures for the RSX and Si are not taken at the wheel. Wheel HP for the Si/RSX is lower than the listed 197/201 (might be some Si stats over at ToV for Wheel HP).

I do very much agree with you, however, that simple bolt ons are in no way going to produce those kind of figures while remaining NA. Perhaps bolt ons, cams, and a nice EUC tune/reflash perhaps? I still think 274 would be a hell of a stretch. (Of course, this is usually where random forum member X inserts a link to someones 300HP bolt on tuned civic, lol)
 

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06Ex said:
Ok thats just bullshit even with the cams, thiers no way they jumped from 204 hub hp to 275 or even 250, so be quiet.

The Si is basically the same engine as the RSX Type S.

The difference. Si puts out 201 hp, which is 197 SAE. The reason its less than the RSX is it has a balance shaft to make it rev smoother.

The RSX doesnt have the balance shaft, which is why it makes 210 hp or 201 SAE.
I never said they "jumped from 204 hub to 250 with cams" so before you tell me it's bullsh't, at least get what I said right. I said, cams can give you a significant boost in hp, when tuned, which you assumed meant cams + 204hp = 275hp....

And I've already mentioned the balance shafts. Those also are the reason the car's not making as much as the RSX.
 
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