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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Folks, I am 16 years late to the game. Although I owned a 08 SI about 10 years ago, I did nothing to it. Fast forward and now I own another 09 SI and I am trying to do a lot to it (brakes, suspension, engine, wheels, tires).

For the last 2 months I have been on the phone with the biggest companies and vendors. This post needs to be highlighted to show the current market and reality. First of all, full-race and PRL discontinued their turbokits for the K20. These two companies wre selling the top two best selling turbokits and now they don't have it, it comes down to the EPA.

Besides CX racing there is not a whole lot of turbokits choices, maybe ultimate-racing from Canada. As far is superchargers, I will be surprised if they are still around in another year or so, you can only get KW C30-94 or CTE/ Mercracing and both are stupidly expensive. It cost more to do a supercharger/turbokit for a K20 that it cost for a BRZ/GR 86 which by the way there is an abundance of boosted products and good brands.
I have been looking at possibly doing cams. The K24 with K20 heads package was appealing but as I digged more and more into the true cost of blocks, cylinder heads and cams I was shocked to see how expensive is getting a K20 into decent power levels.

My car currently makes 222whp/158lb-tq on a mustang dyno with a Hybrid Racing air intake, Invidia headers, Full-race catback, hondata flashpro and custom tuned on 91oct for 3 meticulous hours. I was looking at doing cams and I called Drag cartel and talked to them for a while on what suits best for me.

Here is the break down of 3 shops that gave me a quote on doing cams:

Shop 1) Unrivaled Performance (6.6 hours of labor to swap the cams on the car while the engine is on the car plus 3 hours to do valvetrain. No mention of doing a valve job but I am assuming is included. Their rate is $125 flat

Shop 2) (U wrench in Tucson, AZ)14 hours of labor including the valve job but not including the valvetrain R&R. $100 plus tax labor

Shop 3) Chapman Honda dealer (Tucson, AZ)14.7 hours not including valvetrain R&R, or valve job so $2350 plus valve adjustment and valve train

On top of that in all 3 cases you are paying $1000 the cams plus $400 for valvetrain and off course the custome tune. In summary, I truly halted my ambition to modd the engine for now until I can assess the situation better and seek a more feasible solution.

Drag cartel has a cylinder head package for $4200 "on sale" which includes their cams and valvetrain plus a nice cylinder head job(machine CNC, etc). Considering what I have seen so far now the $4200 doesn't seem that ridiculous because the cylinder head would come with their camshafts and valvetrain already installed.

If you have any suggestions on what path should I take I would apreciate it. This is a car that I purchased for my son(he doesn't have the license yet) but we are going to use it for tracking it at the road course (we already are). Thanks for your time
 

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I agree with your points. It stinks that we have very few options. I’ve been bolt on for a while and have been itching to go forced induction, but other than buying a used turbo kit or throwing down $5000 for a supercharger kit, there’s not much else we can do.
Have you thought about building your own turbo system? I’ve seen manifolds for turbos and everything else can be bought individually which should save you some money.
In light of all of this, I’ve noticed these cars are becoming popular again, so hopefully the aftermarket comes around again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
^^ Yes, thank you for your response. It appears that once you do the 3 basic bolt ons (I/H/E) and custom tune or hondata Flash pro maps your next step is pitching in $6000-$7000 on a car that cost $4000 to $10000. I am not even including a clutch set-up which you are likely to need which will cost you another $1500-$2000.

I have been looking at other options, exactly what you said, gathering components and building a turbokit. I have a friend that is a fabricator, welder, mechanic and he encouraged me to have him build a custom turbokit which he has done for many other cars from scratch. The problem is that one time i showed up to his shop with a notebook and I started writing down labor cost and parts and it came very very close to what a PRL and Full-Race turbokit cost. We didn't cut corners, it was going to be the good stuff(Tial, ball bearing) and all the goodies but it was going to cost a lot.

The other option left on the table was the K24/20 head. A local shop offered me a complete swap which is:

1) removing my K20 engine
2) removing my cylinder head
3) installing my K20 cylinder head on a k24 block
4) install the engine back in

I would still have to allocate a K24 engine, prefereably complete. On top of that fresh fluids, gaskets and tune. I was quoted 14-15 hours of labor which I think was reasonable (15 x$125) =$1900 in labor+engine($1200)+ gaskets, fluids+custom tune which is around $3500 and all that I am getting out of it is about 25 whp-30lb-tq more what I already have on my custom tuned K20.

Here is one of the problems, it is like a kick in the nuts to break apart my good working engine to do a Frankenstein. I can totally see it if I spun a bearing, or if I blew a headgasket but you probably understand my point of view. I wished turbokits and superchargers were cheaper.
 

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I'm leaning toward a 4 piston racing stroker. I see no way to match the price of built to spec motor over buying piece by piece. Yes, around ten grand+ to have 300+ hp, drop in and go. I'm at 210,000 hard miles and just throwing on a supercharger I don't think would last long. And ruining my core would cost me more. I just spent 5 grand on a full syncrotech rebuild and change the final drive to a 4.3 to help manage the power when I can finally get the motor. This route is still cheaper than a new car and payments. I can afford anything I want to drive as much as I drive.
 

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The thread a lot of us need to discuss about.

The current market for 8th gen is raising a lot of questions
for guys that have had 8th gens for a while and are thinking about new platforms
and new guys who just scored a great deal on their first 8th gen alike.

The options are getting limited, KW seems to be the easiest choice.

I too am full bolt on to the max on my Z3 and dont see any point in messing with it (letting it ride until the piston rings go) unless I build it fully.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
^^ Amen brother. Absolutely everything that you said makes sense. My engine is so smooth, I am at 168k and using full sync Amsoil and with the custom tune the power is decently good but I just don't want to break my engine open for a Frankenstein yet. I rather just wait for a cylinder head gasket to go, of spun a bearing then maybe I go the route of rebuilding it.

Like you said, KW seems to be the friendliest option. It makes more power than cams and more power than a K24/K20 heads with best drivability. Another advantage is the resale value.
At this moment I am very inclined to just leave the engine alone. Maybe put a lightweight flywheel whenever I do the clutch and maybe a set of pulleys and call it a day. I opened this topic to shine a light on the current power options.
 

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You raise an interesting point about these cars. I’m not sure if it’s solely related to the car shortage or what, but these cars have sky rocketed in value over the last year or two. I’m curious what they’ll go for in the next year or two.

As I see it now, I have a car worth 6k, but if the true value has brought mine up to over 10k, it might be worth putting an SC on it.
 

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I paid about 2300 labor for head to be resurfaced, header and exhaust, timing chain and tensioner, cams, valve train and the a2 oil pump to get put in. My mechanic even cleaned up the pistons. He's also a friend, but he a honda building expert.
 

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I agree with your points. It stinks that we have very few options. I’ve been bolt on for a while and have been itching to go forced induction, but other than buying a used turbo kit or throwing down $5000 for a supercharger kit, there’s not much else we can do.
Have you thought about building your own turbo system? I’ve seen manifolds for turbos and everything else can be bought individually which should save you some money.
In light of all of this, I’ve noticed these cars are becoming popular again, so hopefully the aftermarket comes around again.
I have a 6266 precision turbo for sale never used $1200 shoot me a text 9174887377
 

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Either way you're going to drop a lot of money lol. I was going to go boosted but decided to just stay n/a and went with a k24/k20 longblock from kmod as they are cheaper than grassroots etc. It's got a brand new head and upgraded valve train, brain crower stage 3 cams, super tech springs retainers, ferrera valves and 11 to 1 compression instead of the 10.5:1 like the k24 comes with and it's basically an oem bottom end oem pistons rods etc. I paid I think about 4k something for the longblock from kmod and with all bolt ons and e85 I make about 300 wheel. Now granted you could just rebuild your k20 or get a k24 and build it and sell your z3 as the z3 and the trans are expensive as they are getting rare. My z3 had about 250k which is why I decided to Frankenstein it. My bolt ons are skunk2 76mm exhaust, ktuned 3.5" intake, plm tri y v2 headers as headers are known to hit the firewall if you do a k24 swap and a sirimoto pnp flex fuel kit. Among many other parts. Either way you're going to pay a lot to go boosted or have a motor built or you can buy one of those stock k24s on eBay that are 800$ with 50k miles or less and get a cx racing turbo kit or a supercharger kit from kraftwerks or CT engineering or just buy a turbo from eBay or precision turbo and get all the stuff to make your own kit or have the tune shop build it for ya. There's many many options out there as the 8th gens and 9th gens are being bought up and rebuilt now. Instead of flashpro I'd go fuel tech as you can get I think it's the 350 or something like that for around 800 and it comes with traction control etc as to where flashpro doesn't and flashpro is old technology. Saying that I do use flashpro though as it came with my car but if you have to buy one flashpro is now 795 new or you can get a fuel tech that comes with a screen, traction control etc as to where flashpro you have to pay and extra 500 for traction control. Goodluck man!
 

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Either way you're going to drop a lot of money lol. I was going to go boosted but decided to just stay n/a and went with a k24/k20 longblock from kmod as they are cheaper than grassroots etc. It's got a brand new head and upgraded valve train, brain crower stage 3 cams, super tech springs retainers, ferrera valves and 11 to 1 compression instead of the 10.5:1 like the k24 comes with and it's basically an oem bottom end oem pistons rods etc. I paid I think about 4k something for the longblock from kmod and with all bolt ons and e85 I make about 300 wheel. Now granted you could just rebuild your k20 or get a k24 and build it and sell your z3 as the z3 and the trans are expensive as they are getting rare. My z3 had about 250k which is why I decided to Frankenstein it. My bolt ons are skunk2 76mm exhaust, ktuned 3.5" intake, plm tri y v2 headers as headers are known to hit the firewall if you do a k24 swap and a sirimoto pnp flex fuel kit. Among many other parts. Either way you're going to pay a lot to go boosted or have a motor built or you can buy one of those stock k24s on eBay that are 800$ with 50k miles or less and get a cx racing turbo kit or a supercharger kit from kraftwerks or CT engineering or just buy a turbo from eBay or precision turbo and get all the stuff to make your own kit or have the tune shop build it for ya. There's many many options out there as the 8th gens and 9th gens are being bought up and rebuilt now. Instead of flashpro I'd go fuel tech as you can get I think it's the 350 or something like that for around 800 and it comes with traction control etc as to where flashpro doesn't and flashpro is old technology. Saying that I do use flashpro though as it came with my car but if you have to buy one flashpro is now 795 new or you can get a fuel tech that comes with a screen, traction control etc as to where flashpro you have to pay and extra 500 for traction control. Goodluck man!
yes! no replacement for displacement. Also isn't 1 of ya'll from a hot place?
 

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Either way you're going to drop a lot of money lol. I was going to go boosted but decided to just stay n/a and went with a k24/k20 longblock from kmod as they are cheaper than grassroots etc. It's got a brand new head and upgraded valve train, brain crower stage 3 cams, super tech springs retainers, ferrera valves and 11 to 1 compression instead of the 10.5:1 like the k24 comes with and it's basically an oem bottom end oem pistons rods etc. I paid I think about 4k something for the longblock from kmod and with all bolt ons and e85 I make about 300 wheel. Now granted you could just rebuild your k20 or get a k24 and build it and sell your z3 as the z3 and the trans are expensive as they are getting rare. My z3 had about 250k which is why I decided to Frankenstein it. My bolt ons are skunk2 76mm exhaust, ktuned 3.5" intake, plm tri y v2 headers as headers are known to hit the firewall if you do a k24 swap and a sirimoto pnp flex fuel kit. Among many other parts. Either way you're going to pay a lot to go boosted or have a motor built or you can buy one of those stock k24s on eBay that are 800$ with 50k miles or less and get a cx racing turbo kit or a supercharger kit from kraftwerks or CT engineering or just buy a turbo from eBay or precision turbo and get all the stuff to make your own kit or have the tune shop build it for ya. There's many many options out there as the 8th gens and 9th gens are being bought up and rebuilt now. Instead of flashpro I'd go fuel tech as you can get I think it's the 350 or something like that for around 800 and it comes with traction control etc as to where flashpro doesn't and flashpro is old technology. Saying that I do use flashpro though as it came with my car but if you have to buy one flashpro is now 795 new or you can get a fuel tech that comes with a screen, traction control etc as to where flashpro you have to pay and extra 500 for traction control. Goodluck man!
Just checked Kmodperformance, and says it’s not a legit sight 🤨
 

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yes! no replacement for displacement. Also isn't 1 of ya'll from a hot place?
Whatchu talking about Willis? Lol. Agrees no replacement for displacement for sure! I could tell a huge difference in my car after doing this k24 swap. Much more torque and much better midrange as well!
 

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Just checked Kmodperformance, and says it’s not a legit sight 🤨
Yes it is legit or else I would of got my k24 lol. Their website has been down for some reason but you can still call or text them and get some prices. I will say he told me he would be done with my motor in 6 weeks and it wasn't done for 2.5 3 months. Other than that this motor is badass. It's basically a used bottom end stock rods and pistons and camshaft from a k24a2 with 11:0.1 compression instead of 10:5.1 and a brand new k20z3 head with upgrade valve train with a 5 angle racecut on the valves and stage 3 bc cams. He does everything, transmissions, motors etc. I went to him and got my k24 and then went to gear driven llc to get my transmission rebuilt. The guy who owns and runs kmod his name is marquise and his cell phone number is 336-870-6965. Call him and tell him what kind of set up you're shooting for and get your build in motion. They also allow you to pay on it if you don't have all the money upfront but you have to put I think 10% or 20% down or something like that.
 

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King Motorsports is the only Mugen Authorized shop in the US. Check them out as they are comparable to the prices you have listed and Mugen, as shown by choosing only 1 shop in America, does not lend their name to just anyone.

kingmototrsports.com
 
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