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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been running a car detailing business for 5 years, and pretty much know all the ins and outs, but I'm stumped right now. I just bought my 06 nhbp si coupe, used with 16,000 miles. It had been at the dealership for 3 months just collecting water spots, but other than that it had been taken care of. The first thing I did was run a buffer over the car using Zaino fusion. I did it lightly over the whole car, and buff swirls were left. They came out with some 3m hand glaze and really brought the paint back to life. To prep it for Zaino, I washed it with dawn, then put on Z5 followed by Z2. It looked really good and deep like Zaino should make it. However, in the direct sun, you could see what looked to be rub marks, no swirls though. So I thought a few more coats of Z5 followed by Z2 would get them out, but no. In the direct sun, it looks almost like there is a haze, similar to what it looked like after the Zaino Fusion. Any advice you could provide would help. Thanks.
 

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I've been running a car detailing business for 5 years, and pretty much know all the ins and outs, but I'm stumped right now. I just bought my 06 nhbp si coupe, used with 16,000 miles. It had been at the dealership for 3 months just collecting water spots, but other than that it had been taken care of. The first thing I did was run a buffer over the car using Zaino fusion. I did it lightly over the whole car, and buff swirls were left. They came out with some 3m hand glaze and really brought the paint back to life. To prep it for Zaino, I washed it with dawn, then put on Z5 followed by Z2. It looked really good and deep like Zaino should make it. However, in the direct sun, you could see what looked to be rub marks, no swirls though. So I thought a few more coats of Z5 followed by Z2 would get them out, but no. In the direct sun, it looks almost like there is a haze, similar to what it looked like after the Zaino Fusion. Any advice you could provide would help. Thanks.

Get away from Zaino and go with Wolfgang Polysealent! Really goes on like a cream and no Haze! The haze could be wax holograms, which you would a little water and a microfiber polishing cloth to make it sheen ! I detail cars & boats, you could check out my thread on my black civic SI . I use menzerna polishes (except for a heavy cut with wool, i use meguiars #4). Nxt for this car goes on real nice also ! I don't do Zaino anymore, because of the time factor. And if you want to really get rid of swirl marks, you shouldn't hid them but compound/polish them out using an orbital buffer, not a DA.
 

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I have some thoughts on the subject, but I would first PM Rasky and get his advice. It would be great to have some pics to see what you are talking about.
 

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maybe use clean microfiber towel to wipe your car? dont overused the towel, if its dirty, then use a new/ clean towel. i used to notice the "rubbed" (looks like hologram) marks all over my car (nhbp) in direct sun. not anymore.
 

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go for some P21S carbauna wax, good stuff, and it won't stain your plastic
It is good stuff for a garage queen or in colder climates, but i wouldn't use it in the warmer climates... attracts dirt like a magnet! I have some here. Used it once.

You don't use a DA to compound out swirl marks.

Most likely you just missed some areas or didn't wait long enough for it to cure and it's a little smeared.

It can also be holograms you put in the paint by rubbing a bit to hard with the applicator. It does happen. They say it won't scratch, but if you test an area under a bright light, watch the fine lines it can produce. And they show up as haze marks at the right angles... I don't use cotton cloths or microfibre to apply wax/sealent application, especially on a black car. Use the sponge applicator to apply and remove with microfibre polishing cloth, not just a regular microfibre.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
i use a brand new rag for each application...as far as rubbing too hard, that would have only happened with the 3m hand glaze, b/c it's a pain to get off...also, the last thing i did was wash the car real good to see if that helped, and still the hazy look with rub marks...so if you were to start now with the car as it is, would you go ahead and clay it, put some kind of cleaner on it, and put the wolfgang sealant on it?
 

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OP, if this still bugs you, clay the car first. I use Griot's Polish #3 to remove any swirls or light scratches. Then I would use Meguiar's #7 Show Car Glaze which puts tremendous depth into black paint. I use it on my black G35 all the time. Next, I would go with the Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant followed up by a good wax like Natty's Blue or Mother's Reflections Advanced High Gloss finish.
 

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i use a brand new rag for each application...as far as rubbing too hard, that would have only happened with the 3m hand glaze, b/c it's a pain to get off...also, the last thing i did was wash the car real good to see if that helped, and still the hazy look with rub marks...so if you were to start now with the car as it is, would you go ahead and clay it, put some kind of cleaner on it, and put the wolfgang sealant on it?
First of all, hell with the wax, it only attracts grit when it softens from the sun. Wolfgang Polysealent is all you need as a final. Unless it's a garage queen or you're up North, then waxing is fine. I put P21S on my vette, but I rarely drive it.

First I would DAWN the car, then inspect it. Clay won't remove haze do to too many fine lines from God knows what... If they disappeared, then the problem was the waxing/sealent phase. If they're still there, then I would perform a test under the proper lightning conditions that really accent every little detail and flaw in the top coat. Once you figured out what approach fixes it, then do an entire panel. If that solved the problem, then do the entire car ! I found out i had to use a 1200 grit cut compound with a wool(or use a lighter polish with a heavy cutting pad and let the pad do the work of cutting in the polish medium), pad to remove some swirl marks and or scratches, then polish it with Menzerna Final Polish, which produced a mirror and everything was gone. Those swirl marks or scratch lines were probably from someone who didn't know how to wash the car properly, and all it takes is a few pieces of grit to turn your mitt into sandpaper, or use towels, even cotton towels, that'll scratch it. Sometimes when using and orbital, and you generate too much heat and you don't know what you're doing, you can induce those hologram effects ! :) But on the flipside, generating heat used in conjunction with a chemical polish resurfaces the top coat for an absolute mirror finish as best you will get IF you know what you're doing. That takes a few years of experience to use an orbital like that, but that'll put you one notch up from the other guy who thought he was going to win 1st place ! ;)

I rarely ever find a car in public that has been compounded or polished properly. Most people don't know how or won't pay someone who does to achieve that kinda finish. If you think you've seen a beautiful rich black car, just wait till the sun hits it at different angles, and that'll tell you something about how it is being taken care of... maybe the person could care less, or maybe they just don't know what they're doing. And what pisses me off is when you pay a dealer prep, and the car comes back all detailed, but then when you inspect it in the sun at different angles, WHOA.. who the f... put all those lines, swirlmarks in the paint ? :( I've seen those dealer detail shops in the back, and their job is not to make your car look like a black 911 for a show in
Germany...;)


I talk about how i do my cars here... and you follow another link to the corvette forum where i go into detail about advanced compound/polishing techniques...

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/detailing/71389-polishing-my-black-civic-si-sedan.html


You may know more than i do, but maybe you might find some useful info ;) good luck !
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Yeah, I do recognize that most cars that you see everyday are not polished or compounded correctly, and black is their worst enemy. But I am an anal car enthusiast who makes sure that my car tops theirs every day of the week, otherwise I wouldn't be on this forum. I'd rather not go ordering a bunch of stuff not knowing what will work, but I am going to give that Wolfgang Polysealant a try for the final touch. I'll probably dawn the car, clay it just for elimination purposes, and put a cleaner on it. What cleaner do you suggest? I own Meguiars step 1 crystal cleaner and Z1 from Zaino. I can try other cleaners that can be bought at an Advanced/Auto Zone store unless nothing there will work. After it is cleaned, it should be a nice finish with no swirls correct? Just not the perfect shine without the Sealant?
 

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First of all, hell with the wax, it only attracts grit when it softens from the sun. Wolfgang Polysealent is all you need as a final. Unless it's a garage queen or you're up North, then waxing is fine. I put P21S on my vette, but I rarely drive it.

First I would DAWN the car, then inspect it. Clay won't remove haze do to too many fine lines from God knows what... If they disappeared, then the problem was the waxing/sealent phase. If they're still there, then I would perform a test under the proper lightning conditions that really accent every little detail and flaw in the top coat. Once you figured out what approach fixes it, then do an entire panel. If that solved the problem, then do the entire car ! I found out i had to use a 1200 grit cut compound with a wool(or use a lighter polish with a heavy cutting pad and let the pad do the work of cutting in the polish medium), pad to remove some swirl marks and or scratches, then polish it with Menzerna Final Polish, which produced a mirror and everything was gone. Those swirl marks or scratch lines were probably from someone who didn't know how to wash the car properly, and all it takes is a few pieces of grit to turn your mitt into sandpaper, or use towels, even cotton towels, that'll scratch it. Sometimes when using and orbital, and you generate too much heat and you don't know what you're doing, you can induce those hologram effects ! :) But on the flipside, generating heat used in conjunction with a chemical polish resurfaces the top coat for an absolute mirror finish as best you will get IF you know what you're doing. That takes a few years of experience to use an orbital like that, but that'll put you one notch up from the other guy who thought he was going to win 1st place ! ;)

I rarely ever find a car in public that has been compounded or polished properly. Most people don't know how or won't pay someone who does to achieve that kinda finish. If you think you've seen a beautiful rich black car, just wait till the sun hits it at different angles, and that'll tell you something about how it is being taken care of... maybe the person could care less, or maybe they just don't know what they're doing. And what pisses me off is when you pay a dealer prep, and the car comes back all detailed, but then when you inspect it in the sun at different angles, WHOA.. who the f... put all those lines, swirlmarks in the paint ? :( I've seen those dealer detail shops in the back, and their job is not to make your car look like a black 911 for a show in
Germany...;)


I talk about how i do my cars here... and you follow another link to the corvette forum where i go into detail about advanced compound/polishing techniques...

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/detailing/71389-polishing-my-black-civic-si-sedan.html


You may know more than i do, but maybe you might find some useful info ;) good luck !
Bro, saw your Si and it is beautiful! Great tips on detailing. BTW, I would love to see a pic of your Vette. I had 2 back in the day- a '67 427 roadster and a '69 427 roadster. Repped + :thumb:
 

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Nice car ! :) I have the same car, but an FA5, though i can see that the reflections are a bit hazy somewhat, still looks nice!

Dawn then clay is fine. Maybe just be removing the waxes/sealents was the problem... ;)
No, don't buy a bunch of products, but do have different stages of polish. The consumer paint cleaner will just round the edges of the scratches to keep light from producing specular highlights... thus hiding the scratches (or most of them). Again, do you want to hide them or remove them.
If you want that super mirror finish that causes traffic accidents (joke) ;), you must eliminate them as much as you can so the light goes through the clear coat without much interference at all!


Heavy Cut: Meguiars #84 to #4 (use with an orbital only, not by hand or DA)
Medium to Light Cut: Menzerna Intensive Polish
POLISHING: Menzerna Final Polish (this stuff rocks...)
LIGHT POLISH: Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner (you see, this is actually a lighter polish than the menzerna, just put that here to show you were it falls...)
FINISH: Mirror Glaze #7...

I prefer P21S Paint Cleaner over the Meguiars.
Another good combo is Menzerna Final Polish & Wolfgang Sealent


What I meant by approach is to see what Compound / Polishing Level you must start with to eliminate the problem. If


Great results with Menzerna products for polishing.


Anyway, check out this chart >>

Detailer's Product Charts


I know you can always return the product if it doesn't perform the way you wanted at Autozone. So if you buy the Meguiar's Paint Cleaner,and you don't like it,return it. These are consumer line and not professional.
The professional mirror glaze products are very lubricious.

Menzerna Final Polish then Wolfgang. True abrasive that reduces to a very fine level. I know it's $$$, but just think about the money spent in some MODS :)

Also, turtle wax came out with 2 new polishes with Nanoabrasives...

check those out. The rubbing compound is a 1500 grit medium cut.
Now these can be applied by hand. What you could do is use this to test and area, then apply a polish after compounding. The other turtle wax is a lighter cut, so start with that. I bought both, and returned the one i didn't use. I liked the 1500 grit, because of fast touchups that you want to do by hand, this stuff really worked well. Just find out what approach works, then apply it to the whole car.
 

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Nice car ! :) I have the same car FA5, but i can see that the reflections are a bit hazy, still looks nice.

Dawn then clay is fine. No, don't buy a bunch of products, but do have different stages of polish. The consumer paint cleaner will just round the edges of the scratches to keep light from producing specular highlights... thus hiding the scratches (or most of them). Again, do you want to hide them or remove them.
If you want that super mirror finish that causes traffic accidents (joke) ;), you must eliminate them as much as you can so the light goes through the clear coat without much interference at all!


Heavy Cut: Meguiars #84 to #4 (use with an orbital only, not by hand or DA)
Medium to Light Cut: Menzerna Intensive Polish
POLISHING: Menzerna Final Polish (this stuff rocks...)
LIGHT POLISH: Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner (you see, this is actually a lighter polish than the menzerna, just put that here to show you were it falls...)
FINISH: Mirror Glaze #7...

I prefer P21S Paint Cleaner over the Meguiars.
Another good combo is Menzerna Final Polish & Wolfgang Sealent


What I meant by approach is to see what Compound / Polishing Level you must start with to eliminate the problem. If


Great results with Menzerna products for polishing.


Anyway, check out this chart >>

Detailer's Product Charts


I know you can always return the product if it doesn't perform the way you wanted at Autozone. So if you buy the Meguiar's Paint Cleaner,and you don't like it,return it. These are consumer line and not professional.
The professional mirror glaze products are very lubricious.

Menzerna Final Polish then Wolfgang. True abrasive that reduces to a very fine level. I know it's $$$, but just think about the money spent in some MODS :)

Also, turtle wax came out with 2 new polishes with Nanoabrasives...

check those out. The rubbing compound is a 1500 grit medium cut.
Now these can be applied by hand. What you could do is use this to test and area, then apply a polish after compounding. The other turtle wax is a lighter cut, so start with that. I bought both, and returned the one i didn't use. I liked the 1500 grit, because of fast touchups that you want to do by hand, this stuff really worked well. Just find out what approach works, then apply it to the whole car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Thanks for all of the replys...yes it is fairly cold, but when I applied the wax, it was in my garage, which was probably about 50 degrees...I thought that could have been an issue also....Nightshifter, can the turtle wax products be bought at Auto Zone or Advanced Auto Parts? Also, say I start with a medium cut. Would I have to then apply a light cut, then a polish, then a finish, or could I skip the light cut, apply a polish, and then a finish?
 

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Thanks for all of the replys...yes it is fairly cold, but when I applied the wax, it was in my garage, which was probably about 50 degrees...I thought that could have been an issue also....Nightshifter, can the turtle wax products be bought at Auto Zone or Advanced Auto Parts? Also, say I start with a medium cut. Would I have to then apply a light cut, then a polish, then a finish, or could I skip the light cut, apply a polish, and then a finish?
No, you can do a medium cut or medium-fine cut, then go right to a Final Polish .. but make sure it is an abrasive final polish, a pure polish.. glaze.. won't do it..
you must refine the surface.

example: turtle wax 1500 grit rubbing compound or the 2000 grit polishing compound, then menzerna final polish, then sealent. You could glaze before sealent, but i didn't notice any improvement here. It's really the compound polishing phase that counts here, the sealent/wax phase just protects and enhances it somewhat.

AutoZone and Advanced Auto Parts should sell it. I've seen it at walmart also.

Turtle Wax - Premium Polishing Compound


it's the premium line, silicone free for professionals like you and me ;)

again, please test a small area that you can eye up easily before you try the entire panel... once you figure it out, do the entire car !

you must descern whether those imperfections were do to waxing/sealing or are they in the clearcoat ???
Again, it just might of been a poor wax/sealent phase .. weather, curing time, type of cloths, product just doesn't get along with your type of clearcoat...
so try the least aggressive method first, study it... proceed to the next level if that doesn't work...


example: same problem ... i found out that spraying the car with distilled water and buffing it over, fixed the uneven wax/sealent application. Still see hazy smeared marks at different angles... then that maybe very fine scratches in clumps in clearcoat which must be compounded/polished out ... so make sure !!:)
don't overdue it !
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thanks, you've been a great help. Is there another final polish with abrasive I can get besides the Mazerna without having to order one online? I'd like to buy everything in store so that I could return it if it doesn't work, plus I dont want to wait on shipment. How does the Zaino fit into these categories that you stated earlier? What about the new NXT?
 
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