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Is it safe to drop the shifter into Neutral without pressing the clutch?
Just wondering, since I am quite new to Manual shifting.
Just wondering, since I am quite new to Manual shifting.
Manual Trans. Question
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Any reasons as to why this is a bad idea?
The way I see it, the car just drops out of gear... You need to apply the clutch in order to put the car in gear, but to take it out of gear, why would it be a bad idea?
This of course would only be done while braking.
I'm looking for a explanation. thanks!
The way I see it, the car just drops out of gear... You need to apply the clutch in order to put the car in gear, but to take it out of gear, why would it be a bad idea?
This of course would only be done while braking.
I'm looking for a explanation. thanks!
This is bad for your clutch as it disengages without actually being pressed resulting in excessive and very uneven wear.jongallant said:Any reasons as to why this is a bad idea?
The way I see it, the car just drops out of gear... You need to apply the clutch in order to put the car in gear, but to take it out of gear, why would it be a bad idea?
This of course would only be done while braking.
I'm looking for a explanation. thanks!
Its also bad for your Synchros as they do not have sync gear changes without the clutch being pressed.
So in short. YES ITS VERY BAD. Just push the clutch, if your to lazy to do that, then you shouldnt be driving a stick.
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It is perfectly safe to drop the shifter into neutral without using the clutch. In fact, you don't ever have to use the clutch at all, even when you're shifting. It's just so complicated that most people wouldn't be able to deal with it. Every gear has a zone that will allow you to engage the shifter without pressing the clutch. That zone changes based on your speed but you'll have a better idea what that zone is once you get used to where your car shift at what speed and at what rpms. Without pushing the clutch in, when you're in that zone, try engaging the shifter. You'll meet some resistance but it will go. If you grind then you're not quite in the zone yet. I wouldn't recommend doing this a lot unless you get fairly good at it because if you grind a lot you will end up damaging the tranny. However, I do recommend that everyone know how to do it because that way if the clutch ever goes out on your car, you can still drive it where it needs to go to get it fixed or at least get it safely off the road.
In review, shifting to neutral with no clutch = fine.
Shifting into gear with no clutch = depends on how good you are at it.
I see 06Ex's opinion differs greatly from mine. Unless new technology has made manual trannys do something different than they used to I've never had or heard of a problem with doing this. However, I am going to google it because I hate giving people wrong advice.
In review, shifting to neutral with no clutch = fine.
Shifting into gear with no clutch = depends on how good you are at it.
I see 06Ex's opinion differs greatly from mine. Unless new technology has made manual trannys do something different than they used to I've never had or heard of a problem with doing this. However, I am going to google it because I hate giving people wrong advice.
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Found this at answers.com. Doesn't say whether or not it's bad though. Will keep looking.
Shifting without the clutch
It is also possible to shift gears without using the clutch at all, by careful throttle manipulation. When transmissions were unsynchronized this was usually the easiest method, and still works in modern cars, although it requires a lot more practice than the usual methods described above.
On cars with a freewheel, shifting without the clutch is standard procedure.
Shifting without the clutch
It is also possible to shift gears without using the clutch at all, by careful throttle manipulation. When transmissions were unsynchronized this was usually the easiest method, and still works in modern cars, although it requires a lot more practice than the usual methods described above.
On cars with a freewheel, shifting without the clutch is standard procedure.
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go to google, type in this...
shifting manual transmission without clutch
go to bottom of search results page and look at some of the google groups pages. Everything that I'm reading says it's fine as long at you have you rpms right. If your rpms aren't right you can damage your tranny tho.
shifting manual transmission without clutch
go to bottom of search results page and look at some of the google groups pages. Everything that I'm reading says it's fine as long at you have you rpms right. If your rpms aren't right you can damage your tranny tho.
Ya learn to defy all automotive sense, shift without using the proper way, and then when you rip your damn synchros out of your tranny, and tear your shifter up, you will be back on here asking "whats wrong with my tranny"
JUST USE THE CLUTCH LAZY ASS, or dont buy a manual.
**all things in this post are not to be taken offensively, its just ridiculous trashing a new car if your trying to find a way not to use your clutch, your mommy and daddy need to use the money elsewhere**
JUST USE THE CLUTCH LAZY ASS, or dont buy a manual.
**all things in this post are not to be taken offensively, its just ridiculous trashing a new car if your trying to find a way not to use your clutch, your mommy and daddy need to use the money elsewhere**
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I will not be trying to shift without engaging the clutch first, that is for sure.
But back to the initial question. Is it _bad_ to drop the shifter into Neutral (this is dropping it out of gear, not putting it in gear), without damaging anything?
Basically, I read that it was better to press the clutch as little as possible to prevent wear to it. For example, while approaching a red light, would it be better to drop the shifter into neutral, or hold the clutch down until you take off again?
But back to the initial question. Is it _bad_ to drop the shifter into Neutral (this is dropping it out of gear, not putting it in gear), without damaging anything?
Basically, I read that it was better to press the clutch as little as possible to prevent wear to it. For example, while approaching a red light, would it be better to drop the shifter into neutral, or hold the clutch down until you take off again?
"OH HEY GUYS, I FOUND THIS COOL WAY TO DO AN OIL CHANGE WITH NO OIL, BUT DO YOU GUYS THINK ITS OK??? CAN I JUST LIKE DRIVE IT WITH NO OIL JUST TO SEE WHAT IT WILL DO" --- Thats about how stuipd you sound asking this question about your tranny.DipshifT said:lol, actually, its in my name. would it make u happier if i waited for the warrenty to expire?
Seriously, Why would you want to do it. I think can narrow it down.
Either your too lazy to use a ****ing clutch, in which case you should go get an automatic.
OR
You are just stupid for wanting to **** up a car by not driving it the RIGHT WAY, when you could avoid it.
I mean, what is possibly going through your mind that you would want to drive a car without using the clutch. I mean, i must lack the understanding to figure this out, so I think your a damn moron for attempting this, but hey go ahead its not my car.
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I think most of you are missing the point of the question here. I was trying to learn about how a manual transmission works, and I was curious about a unanswered question I had. The whole point here is not to drive my car without the clutch, it is to find out if it is SAFE to drop it out of gear (into neutral position) without damaging the car (with no clutch).
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In regards to your question, it is perfectly safe the pull the shifter out of gear and into neutral without depressing the clutch pedal. Older model cars didn't have clutches so they had to do it. Even if all this new fangled technology required pushing the clutch in to make the syncro spin up correctly, it would affect you shifting out of gear and into neutral. You could then push the clutch in neutral before you shift into the next gear and your syncros would spin up just fine.
A good example of this might be if you needed to slam on your brakes real hard to avoid hitting something. If you pop the shifter into neutral you don't have to worry about pushing the clutch. But if you don't pop the car into neutral and don't push the clutch your engine will give resistance at the end of braking because it's trying not to stall out, which it ultimately will. So if you were used to an automatic and weren't used to slamming two pedals at the same time when braking hard you could pop the shifter in to neutral here.
However, if you were shifting into gear without the clutch, the right RPMs would not damage your syncros. In fact, if you had the right RPMs all the time you would even need syncros. It's just that no one is that perfect all the time, or it's more hassle than what it's worth. If you want to be really technical, using the clutch is being lazy, because if you were good enough you wouldn't need one at all. And an AT is totally different. It does all the work for you but it's tuned for the average user. You can't tell an AT at what RPMs to shift at outside of pushing harder on the gas pedal but even that will only get you so far. I shifted without a clutch for 3 years (messing around mostly) in my last car and never had any problems.
I will not argue with EX06 that there is not safer way to do it than using the clutch, but it can be done with virtually no wear on your tranny if you do it right (without the clutch that is).
A good example of this might be if you needed to slam on your brakes real hard to avoid hitting something. If you pop the shifter into neutral you don't have to worry about pushing the clutch. But if you don't pop the car into neutral and don't push the clutch your engine will give resistance at the end of braking because it's trying not to stall out, which it ultimately will. So if you were used to an automatic and weren't used to slamming two pedals at the same time when braking hard you could pop the shifter in to neutral here.
However, if you were shifting into gear without the clutch, the right RPMs would not damage your syncros. In fact, if you had the right RPMs all the time you would even need syncros. It's just that no one is that perfect all the time, or it's more hassle than what it's worth. If you want to be really technical, using the clutch is being lazy, because if you were good enough you wouldn't need one at all. And an AT is totally different. It does all the work for you but it's tuned for the average user. You can't tell an AT at what RPMs to shift at outside of pushing harder on the gas pedal but even that will only get you so far. I shifted without a clutch for 3 years (messing around mostly) in my last car and never had any problems.
I will not argue with EX06 that there is not safer way to do it than using the clutch, but it can be done with virtually no wear on your tranny if you do it right (without the clutch that is).
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Thanks for the replies!
On another thought, related to this topic... Is it bad to hold the clutch pedal down while stopped? Or is it better to put the shifter in neutral, and remove your foot from the clutch?
Is holding the clutch down at a stop considered the same as "Riding the clutch"?
On another thought, related to this topic... Is it bad to hold the clutch pedal down while stopped? Or is it better to put the shifter in neutral, and remove your foot from the clutch?
Is holding the clutch down at a stop considered the same as "Riding the clutch"?
Its about the same, just remember, everytime you push that pedal in, your wearing down the clutch, So in theory, yes its better to push it in, stop, put it it 1st, and wait until the light is green.jongallant said:
This is not riding the clutch.
Riding the clutch means that you are holding your foot on the pedal a little bit and it isnt completley engaged or dis-engaged, this makes the clutch wear down very quickly, especially at like highway speeds or high rpm's. So keep your foot off it completley unless your are going to depress it to change gears.
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Holy crap!! I've never seen such wrong info in all my life!!! Pushing the clutch in does not hurt your car AT ALL. You can push the clutch in until the cows come home and your car will still be there. With the clutch pushed in, nothing is engaged! How in the world could you break your tranny (clutch) with nothing engaged? You can't.
Riding the clutch is similar to slipping the clutch. A good example of riding the clutch would be using the clutch to brake. Many people do this and it's bad for your car. If I need to slow down I can drop from 5th to 4th gear and let the clutch out slowly. The clutch grabs and the higher RPMs puts greater resistance on the engine and the RPMs drop, causing you to slow down.
Slipping the clutch in general is when you have engaged the clutch all the way or part of the way and it doesn't catch solidly. If you let your clutch out to the point just after it catches and rev your engine and then let the clutch out all the way, you'll notice that the revs will go up and stay high and your car will not accelerate. That's slipping the clutch. VERY BAD! Obviously it's impossible to avoid slipping the clutch entirely because that is what your car does when you go from neutral into 1st gear. It's slips the clutch until you start moving. If it didn't you'd take off like a rocket and your passengers would never ride with you again. That is why all clutches go bad eventually. It is a wearable part. You could drive like your dead grandmother and sooner or later your clutch is gonna die (if you're nice to your clutch you may never see this because other parts on your car will die first). I am a spirited driver. I constantly shift and I enjoy taking turns hard. So I can expect to replace my clutch every 100,000 to 150,000 miles. Some people will drive their car to 300,000 and never need a new clutch and that's because they are an average driver. However, if you are a spirited driver like myself, and your car lasts to 300,000 you can pretty much expect to replace your clutch at somtime.
If you go to howstuffworks.com and look up a car transmission it will show you all the parts and how they interact with each other. It will give you a better idea of what exactly is going on in each thing that you do. (push in clutch pedal, shift into gear, let out clutch pedal, etc.)
Riding the clutch is similar to slipping the clutch. A good example of riding the clutch would be using the clutch to brake. Many people do this and it's bad for your car. If I need to slow down I can drop from 5th to 4th gear and let the clutch out slowly. The clutch grabs and the higher RPMs puts greater resistance on the engine and the RPMs drop, causing you to slow down.
Slipping the clutch in general is when you have engaged the clutch all the way or part of the way and it doesn't catch solidly. If you let your clutch out to the point just after it catches and rev your engine and then let the clutch out all the way, you'll notice that the revs will go up and stay high and your car will not accelerate. That's slipping the clutch. VERY BAD! Obviously it's impossible to avoid slipping the clutch entirely because that is what your car does when you go from neutral into 1st gear. It's slips the clutch until you start moving. If it didn't you'd take off like a rocket and your passengers would never ride with you again. That is why all clutches go bad eventually. It is a wearable part. You could drive like your dead grandmother and sooner or later your clutch is gonna die (if you're nice to your clutch you may never see this because other parts on your car will die first). I am a spirited driver. I constantly shift and I enjoy taking turns hard. So I can expect to replace my clutch every 100,000 to 150,000 miles. Some people will drive their car to 300,000 and never need a new clutch and that's because they are an average driver. However, if you are a spirited driver like myself, and your car lasts to 300,000 you can pretty much expect to replace your clutch at somtime.
If you go to howstuffworks.com and look up a car transmission it will show you all the parts and how they interact with each other. It will give you a better idea of what exactly is going on in each thing that you do. (push in clutch pedal, shift into gear, let out clutch pedal, etc.)
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