8th Generation Honda Civic Forum banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,158 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys, I dont know if someone has discussed this before or not, but I was about to get Eibach Sportsline untill this guy told me that sportsline actually messes up the performance. I mean it maybe kinda does but I'm pretty the powerful k20 can over power the tiny performance loss? Is it actually true that due to sportsline the suspension will be out of balance? and the car will have less grip while cornering? just curious and trying to get all the info I can before buy something. If thats the case, I'll probably go for Pro-kit!
Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,477 Posts
Well, it depends how you look at it.

Progressive rate springs are not always the best for performance, mainly due to the nature of the progressive rate to be unpredictable in chicanes; during load and unload situations. The inital rates of the progressive rate springs are geared more toward comfort than performance and having a less than stock spring rate is no good for performance, but the with the Eibach Sportlines, the rest of the coil stroke is about 12% stiffer than stock. The reason they are stiffer is mainly to keep the vehicle from consistantly contacting the damper bumpstop during the compression stroke of the spring. Most of the performance gain is from the lower center of gravity. Eibach Sportlines are also encroaching the threshold of actually gaining suspension handling; that threshold is about 1.5" less stock height. Past that the suspension geometry becomes unfavorable to great handling characteristics. If you did choose the Eibach Prokit, the spring rates are very close when compared to the Sportlines. You will also not lose so much compression stroke either, and may find the vehicle actually handles better.

In the end, for what you are using the vehicle for, either will offer a decent increase in handling when paired with the following. If you want great street handling, add camber kits and align more aggressive; add a progress RSB; add excellent summer tires, add an excellent aftermarket damper. The dampers are one of the most important parts to this equation. Just don't expect any crazy increase in handling out of any oe style drop spring by themselves.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
64,413 Posts
Well, it depends how you look at it.

Progressive rate springs are not always the best for performance, mainly due to the nature of the progressive rate to be unpredictable in chicanes; during load and unload situations. The inital rates of the progressive rate springs are geared more toward comfort than performance and having a less than stock spring rate is no good for performance, but the with the Eibach Sportlines, the rest of the coil stroke is about 12% stiffer than stock. The reason they are stiffer is mainly to keep the vehicle from consistantly contacting the damper bumpstop during the compression stroke of the spring. Most of the performance gain is from the lower center of gravity. Eibach Sportlines are also encroaching the threshold of actually gaining suspension handling; that threshold is about 1.5" less stock height. Past that the suspension geometry becomes unfavorable to great handling characteristics. If you did choose the Eibach Prokit, the spring rates are very close when compared to the Sportlines. You will also not loose so much compression stroke either, and may find the vehicle actually handles better.

In the end, for what you are using the vehicle for, either will offer a decent increase in handling when paired with the following. If you want great street handling, add camber kits and align more aggressive; add a progress RSB; add excellent summer tires, add an excellent aftermarket damper. The dampers are one of the most important parts to this equation. Just don't expect any crazy increase in handling out of any oe style drop spring by themselves.
Great info Joey!:clapping:

I'm convinced I made the right purchase now.:vtec:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,158 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Well, it depends how you look at it.

Progressive rate springs are not always the best for performance, mainly due to the nature of the progressive rate to be unpredictable in chicanes; during load and unload situations. The inital rates of the progressive rate springs are geared more toward comfort than performance and having a less than stock spring rate is no good for performance, but the with the Eibach Sportlines, the rest of the coil stroke is about 12% stiffer than stock. The reason they are stiffer is mainly to keep the vehicle from consistantly contacting the damper bumpstop during the compression stroke of the spring. Most of the performance gain is from the lower center of gravity. Eibach Sportlines are also encroaching the threshold of actually gaining suspension handling; that threshold is about 1.5" less stock height. Past that the suspension geometry becomes unfavorable to great handling characteristics. If you did choose the Eibach Prokit, the spring rates are very close when compared to the Sportlines. You will also not lose so much compression stroke either, and may find the vehicle actually handles better.

In the end, for what you are using the vehicle for, either will offer a decent increase in handling when paired with the following. If you want great street handling, add camber kits and align more aggressive; add a progress RSB; add excellent summer tires, add an excellent aftermarket damper. The dampers are one of the most important parts to this equation. Just don't expect any crazy increase in handling out of any oe style drop spring by themselves.
hmm, thanks for the info. it really helps. i think I'll go ahead with my purchase and also get the camberkit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Well, it depends how you look at it.

Progressive rate springs are not always the best for performance, mainly due to the nature of the progressive rate to be unpredictable in chicanes; during load and unload situations. The inital rates of the progressive rate springs are geared more toward comfort than performance and having a less than stock spring rate is no good for performance, but the with the Eibach Sportlines, the rest of the coil stroke is about 12% stiffer than stock. The reason they are stiffer is mainly to keep the vehicle from consistantly contacting the damper bumpstop during the compression stroke of the spring. Most of the performance gain is from the lower center of gravity. Eibach Sportlines are also encroaching the threshold of actually gaining suspension handling; that threshold is about 1.5" less stock height. Past that the suspension geometry becomes unfavorable to great handling characteristics. If you did choose the Eibach Prokit, the spring rates are very close when compared to the Sportlines. You will also not lose so much compression stroke either, and may find the vehicle actually handles better.

In the end, for what you are using the vehicle for, either will offer a decent increase in handling when paired with the following. If you want great street handling, add camber kits and align more aggressive; add a progress RSB; add excellent summer tires, add an excellent aftermarket damper. The dampers are one of the most important parts to this equation. Just don't expect any crazy increase in handling out of any oe style drop spring by themselves.
This is true to a point but the thing is both sportline and pro-kit lowers the center of gravity. I think the friend of the OP is referring to the suspension geometry that is thrown off from lowering too much, causing more bump steer.
Club EP3.com: Buddy Club Roll Center Adjusment Ball Joint
This is a fix for the DC5/EP3, I cannot find anything for the 8th gen but this is made to correct the angles of the lower control arm.

But... there is more to correct, there is also the angles of the steering rack linkages that can be thrown off. and then there is also the muiltilink suspension in the back that should be fixed also.

With true race cars all of this would be corrected, but you will not need to do this for daily driving.

If your looking for a brand of springs that studies all of this and then produces it, look into Swift springs.

Swift Springs USA

They research and test out the vehicles completely before physically creating the lowering springs. They study the useable stroke of the stock shocks and they lower the vehicle just enough so that the lower arms aren't angled upwards. Now if I were looking for the slammed look, I wouldn't even bother looking into performance gains out of it, because chances are your not going to get it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,477 Posts
This is true to a point but the thing is both sportline and pro-kit lowers the center of gravity. I think the friend of the OP is referring to the suspension geometry that is thrown off from lowering too much, causing more bump steer.
Club EP3.com: Buddy Club Roll Center Adjusment Ball Joint
This is a fix for the DC5/EP3, I cannot find anything for the 8th gen but this is made to correct the angles of the lower control arm.

But... there is more to correct, there is also the angles of the steering rack linkages that can be thrown off. and then there is also the muiltilink suspension in the back that should be fixed also.

With true race cars all of this would be corrected, but you will not need to do this for daily driving.

If your looking for a brand of springs that studies all of this and then produces it, look into Swift springs.

Swift Springs USA

They research and test out the vehicles completely before physically creating the lowering springs. They study the useable stroke of the stock shocks and they lower the vehicle just enough so that the lower arms aren't angled upwards. Now if I were looking for the slammed look, I wouldn't even bother looking into performance gains out of it, because chances are your not going to get it.
Correct. I didn't want to go into all of it being I have already done such many times on here, as most look to 'slam' or 'dump' rather than performance so I save my 'breath'.

I had Swift Sport oe style drop springs mated to KONI dampers, springs were nice. Less coils, lighter etc., but the progressive design made me switch back to HFP springs mated to my KONIs, which are linear rate.

Swift's coilover race springs are where most their spring technology and innovation lays. Same with Hyperco OBD springs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Actually the Swift springs are linear springs. They look like progressives mainly because if they were to make the springs look linnear the spring will fall out of its perch, that is why they made it look like it is progressive so that it can take up slack in shock from when it is being lowered. The progressive part of the lowering spring is actually completely binded with the weight of the car so the only part of the springs that work when the car is driving is the linnear part of the spring.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,477 Posts
Actually the Swift springs are linear springs. They look like progressives mainly because if they were to make the springs look linnear the spring will fall out of its perch, that is why they made it look like it is progressive so that it can take up slack in shock from when it is being lowered. The progressive part of the lowering spring is actually completely binded with the weight of the car so the only part of the springs that work when the car is driving is the linnear part of the spring.
Actually, I beg to differ that the fact they are not linear when in fact they are progressive rate. I also understand what you are saying. They are listed as progressive rate from Swift being they are not linear throughout the total stroke. The reason all oe drop springs are progressive rate is the reason you described as well. The inital coils are not always at coil bind driving/ on an auto-x course. The inner spring will expand when making a turn, making the initial coils no longer at coil bind. When the suspension recompresses, the stroke will be progressive rate. I speak from personal experience. In the end, the best oe style drop spring I have ever used IMO. The load and unload rate of the springs were great.

I can't wait to utilize Swift coilover race springs with a KONI D/A set-up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
I understand what you are saying. But then again a coilover with a helper spring is considered a linnear spring though, because the helper is there just take up slack.

But I do understand what you are saying. The choices are limited with lowering springs though because it's either
- a straight linnear spring with low spring rate
- a stiff spring rate with progressive ends
- a stiff linnear spring that will fall out of the perch. (make noise)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,477 Posts
Agreed.

Believe me, I have looked into everything possible with out going coilover. It is possible, but very expensive to have cusom wound springs from Swift or Hyperco, then have damper shafts, such as KONI, sent in for a custom length shafts to accomodate the shorter, higher rate spring in order to keep desired height. That isn't cheap either.

The most cost effective way is going custom coilover, or OTS coilover.

Coilovers, that are done right, that need the use of a helper spring is usually designed for such. That being designed in such a way so that the only time the helper spring becomes unbound is at a stroke position the vehicle will never see around a track and only near full droop on a lift. That is mainly the reason the Helper springs usually are well less than 100 lb/in. Assist springs are used more to make the coilover, progressive rate for street duty.

Something we have to live with I guess.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,158 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
I wish I could go for coliovers, but they are too expensive and I personally think it not worth spending that much money for a custom drop. It also doesn't compromise with the performance but I mean spring aren't bad and cheaper.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top