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Input on my cam build?

19K views 201 replies 37 participants last post by  megrog2 
#1 ·
Hello everyone, so I wanted to go for a street cam build..
Little easier on the pockets and a little easier on the engine.
I was just wondering, for those of you with more knowledge than myself, would this be an ok build?

Acura/Honda

BrianCrower.com
(should I go with the titanium? by high mileage, do they mean the length that you're going to be using these on your car or whether your car already has high mileage?)

BrianCrower.com
BrianCrower.com
(should I stick with the standard diameter or go larger?)

OEM Chain Tensioners: The Weak Link | Hybrid Racing
(and purchasing that, whenever the hell it is released!)

I know all of the extras are not needed with the street cams I plan on purchasing, but I would rather do it for peace of mind knowing I did it right.
I did not want to go Stage 2+ because I don't believe I need anything that aggressive, especially when I only hit up the strip 2-3 times a year.
All educated input would be very much appreciated.
Thanks! :beer:
 
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#2 ·
If you don't want stage 2, I'm assuming your going to go with stage 1 cams.
For stage 1 you can go skunk2 or toroku. Also for the chain tensioner look into Chunky's tensioner here. I'm currently running Chunky's TCT atm.
Btw...if you go with stage 1 cams you don't need to upgrade your valvetrain.
 
#5 ·
I disagree. For just a regular street setup stage 1 cams would be great. Toroku cams are around $350ish and cam install is pretty easy.

Hey :)
Yeah they say the Toruku Street Cams are Stage 1.5 (whatever that means)
And if I do upgrade the valvetrain even if I don't need to, will I see any benefits out of it?
With stage 1 cams no, stage 2 cams yes...whats the benefits? Your engine not taking a $h!t with.....brb I gotta go poop.
 
#7 ·
With stage 1 cams no, stage 2 cams yes...whats the benefits? Your engine not taking a $h!t with.....brb I gotta go poop.[/QUOTE]

NO benefits at all? The valve spring/retainer kit is going to be a birthday present so it's not like it would be a big deal to me.. but should I just tell that person to use it towards something else?
I don't know...
 
#8 · (Edited)
slow4drsi, I understand where you are coming from with the stage 2 cam idea.

I used to run stage 3 cams (crower 404's) on my b18a, upgraded valvetrain and everything. I will never run anything over stage 2's again. The car would idle and die, ran very rough, and wasnt good for a daily.

But here is why I think you are wrong and why:

Stage 1 cams, relatively easy install. unbolt Valvecover, unbolt cam retainers, remove belt, remove cam shafts/cam gears, remove cam gear, install cam gear onto new shafts and install.

I did my own cams for my old stage 3 build, and the cams were easy.

Springs are retainers($350) I had to pay $300 bucks for install, and another $50 to deck the head, and a new head gasket($50) and to be safe ARP headstuds($75)

For a stage 1 cam. you can do the install yourself IMO after reading a DIY, and do not need springs retainers/install/head shaved/head gasket or new headstuds. Sure some of those arent manditory, but they are recommended.

So to tally it up we have:

Stage 1 cams: $500 for cams, maybe $100 for additional parts + tuning

Stage 2 cams: $500 cams, $300 for springs/retainers, $200 install, $40 head gasket, $100 for addition parts + tuning (more expensive than stage 1)

Stage 1 grand total: $600 and about 2 hours of time

Stage 2 grand total: $1150 and a few days, as many shops wont install the springs/retainers the same day u bring it in.


Using the low side of your numbers.
Stage 1: 210whp no headache's and only $600
Stage 2: 220whp a few more headaches and $1200.

Not everyone needs stage 2 cams, sure they make more topend, but they usually lack midrange.

People are paying $800 for a header to get 10whp, why not pay $600 for cams that net an equal gain.

IMO they are 2 very different beasts, and neither one is "better" than the other. All depends on what type of car you need.


After dealing with the headaches I went through, I will never buy a super lumpy bumpstick again.

*Edit* my damn post took so long everyone beat me to it:p
 
#9 ·
slow4drsi, I understand where you are coming from with the stage 2 cam idea.

I used to run stage 3 cams (crower 403's) on my b18a, upgraded valvetrain and everything. I will never run anything over stage 2's again. The car would idle and die, ran very rough, and wasnt good for a daily.

But here is why I think you are wrong and why:

Stage 1 cams, relatively easy install. unbolt Valvecover, unbolt cam retainers, remove belt, remove cam shafts/cam gears, remove cam gear, install cam gear onto new shafts and install.

I did my own cams for my old stage 3 build, and the cams were easy.

Springs are retainers($350) I had to pay $300 bucks for install, and another $50 to deck the head, and a new head gasket($50) and to be safe ARP headstuds($75)

For a stage 1 cam. you can do the install yourself IMO after reading a DIY, and do not need springs retainers/install/head shaved/head gasket or new headstuds. Sure some of those arent manditory, but they are recommended.

So to tally it up we have:

Stage 1 cams: $500 for cams, maybe $100 for additional parts + tuning

Stage 2 cams: $500 cams, $300 for springs/retainers, $200 install, $40 head gasket, $100 for addition parts + tuning (more expensive than stage 1)

Stage 1 grand total: $600 and about 2 hours of time

Stage 2 grand total: $1150 and a few days, as many shops wont install the springs/retainers the same day u bring it in.


Using the low side of your numbers.
Stage 1: 210whp no headache's and only $600
Stage 2: 220whp a few more headaches and $1200.

Not everyone needs stage 2 cams, sure they make more topend, but they usually lack midrange.

People are paying $800 for a header to get 10whp, why not pay $600 for cams that net an equal gain.

IMO they are 2 very different beasts, and neither one is "better" than the other. All depends on what type of car you need.


After dealing with the headaches I went through, I will never buy a super lumpy bumpstick again.

*Edit* my damn post took so long everyone beat me to it:p
Great post!
If you can install cams yourself go with stage 1, it'll save you a lot of headache. Stage 2 your going to need valvetrain upgrade and getting the valve springs out is a pain in the @$$.

Price wise its more like
Stage 1 = $375+labor + $200 = $575
Stage 2 = $900+labor + $400 = $1200

To the OP if you really just want a little extra bump in power for daily driver go with stage 1 cams. Stage 2 will be aggressive for daily driving, and you'll lose low end power. As for me, I drive a little hard and only drive 14 miles roundtrip a day so its not a real big problem for me.
 
#10 ·
Hello everyone, so I wanted to go for a street cam build..
Little easier on the pockets and a little easier on the engine.
I was just wondering, for those of you with more knowledge than myself, would this be an ok build?

Acura/Honda

BrianCrower.com
(should I go with the titanium? by high mileage, do they mean the length that you're going to be using these on your car or whether your car already has high mileage?)no,you do not need titanium,they are meant for full on race cars that will only see track/strip time and will get rebuilt often.Save your money and get normal ones.

BrianCrower.com
BrianCrower.com
(should I stick with the standard diameter or go larger?)

OEM Chain Tensioners: The Weak Link | Hybrid Racing
(and purchasing that, whenever the hell it is released!)

I know all of the extras are not needed with the street cams I plan on purchasing, but I would rather do it for peace of mind knowing I did it right.
I did not want to go Stage 2+ because I don't believe I need anything that aggressive, especially when I only hit up the strip 2-3 times a year.
All educated input would be very much appreciated.
Thanks! :beer:
Basically everything you need with a full build is going to help you on even a mild build.Even street cams can slam the valve on the valve seat when they close and upgraded valve springs will control that.If you did'nt guess it's important to control the valves so you don't lose cylinder pressure during the compression strock.Retainers and lighter valves will help maintain valvetrain stability and are definitely strongerFor a stock,or mild street build you don't have to go with oversized valves and I honestly could'nt tell you if they'd be worth it with just street cams and no head porting/valve work.
 
#11 ·
Vantage, Michinsi, and bossman.
Thank you for all your time and input, good read and helped me understand things a lot better.
Looks like with Stage1 it isn't required to upgrade valvetrain, still not sure about my decision on whether I will do it or not.
But at the least I definitely will upgrade the chain tensioner. I guess I'll use the same Chunky's one as you michinsi. (has it done its job so far?)
 
#12 · (Edited)
I still think stage 2 is going to be cheaper in the long run, cause you will get tired of stage 1 right away 10-15whp is not that much. I'm just saying now that there's kflash why go stage 1?

Using the low side of your numbers.
Stage 1: 210whp no headache's and only $600
Stage 2: 220whp a few more headaches and $1200.

Not everyone needs stage 2 cams, sure they make more topend, but they usually lack midrange.

People are paying $800 for a header to get 10whp, why not pay $600 for cams that net an equal gain.

IMO they are 2 very different beasts, and neither one is "better" than the other. All depends on what type of car you need.


why is stage 2 headache?
I got jun3 stage 3 before in My Built lsv, I used it as My daily driver.
I understand your point man.But for Me once you modified your car, problems is always going to be there, warranty to begin with. And it's not going to be 10whp difference with stage 1 to stage 2.

I think going stage 1 with out the valvetrain upgraded is more headache thatn stage 2 with the valvetrain.
 
#22 ·
I postedthis on a different cam thread...just my 2 cents.
I am doing 2 Si at the same time. I went with Toruku mostly because of the price $375 shipped and I do not have to upgrade the valvetrain $$$ x2.
Too much lift and duration make for a poor DD and you lose bottom end TQ. Stage 1/2/3, it all depends on how wild you want to go and how much you want to spend.....to each his own

Toruku Street Cam Profile:
Intake: ADV 285
Intake Low Speed Lobe: Duration 202° @ .050 in .338" lift
Intake High Speed Lobe: Duration 250° @ .050 in .492" lift

Exhaust: ADV 285
Exhaust Low Speed Lobe: Duration 202° @ .050 in .338" lift
Exhaust High Speed Lobe: Duration 250° @ .050 in .492" lift

BC STG 2
Adv. Dur. Dur @ .050 Lift (in)
304°/300 234°/228° .525"/.472"
252°/252° 186°/186° .357"/.357"
246°/246° 178°/178° .313"/.313"

SK2 STG 1
Intake Lift Adv. Dur.@.004" @.050"

Primary .363" 251° 195°
VTEC .515" 297° 249°
Secondary .406" 259° 206°

Exhaust Lift Adv. Dur.@004" @.050"

Primary .404" 254° 203°
VTEC .484" 295° 251°
Secondary .403" 253° 204
 
#23 ·
imo forget the cam specs that these manufacturers place on their websites. they all use different machines to measure the lift and duration of their products.

imo. your best bet is to look at the torque curves produced on the dyno.

as far as daily driving, you can daily anything. it's all in the tune.

i've had skunk2 stage 2's in my daily driver for a year with aftermarket valvetrain and i've had no problems what so ever.
 
#30 ·
I always appreciate your input KidnKorner :)
I was speaking with my co-worker today on my plans with cams.
He said with Stage1 you really don't need to build valvetrain as much on the K-series engines, although you could if you personally wanted to.
But while we were on the topic he mentioned that I had to pick up valve shims.. I have no idea what these are but something about it keeping my cams from hitting something.
Anyone have any more input on these valve shims?
 
#43 ·
This camshaft is made for race cars, or serious road racing motors. All clearances should be measured and cam gear (exhaust) and extensive tuning have to be implemented for maximum gains. These cams can make power at high RPM ranges for the demands of race motors. These cams will utilize the high lift needed to get the higher CFM’s of your good ported head.

Yeah, not trying to do all that. Just need some very modest cams (like I've stated before)
 
#44 · (Edited)
I would vote for the Toruku which have seen VERY nice gains or crower stage 1.

As I mentioned before, i have used crower stage 3's before, and although the were overkill for me They did their intended job very well. Another thing I cant say enough about is Brian Crower's EXCELLENT customer service.

I had a cam break while at the strip, which wasnt unheard of (they have changed design since).

I had informed Brian that my cam broke while driving. He was prepared to cover all the cost to repair my engine that were associated with the break. Luckily nothing was wrecked but one cam was snapped, but he still sent me a new set of oversized valves ($300+ value), a written apology, and obviously a brand new cam set. I was VERY impressed.

*Edit*

I remember reading on here someone got Tokuru cams for $375? from where? Their website lists the cams for 595.
and crower stage 1's are $550 (and more aggressive than JDM Type R)
 
#52 · (Edited)
Yes... but heed my warning


Stage 1 cams will work well with NA and supercharging.

Stage 2 cams will NOT until you read below


Stage 2 cams for NA engines, are detrimental to a boosted application. If you are looking to get cams, and later get a supercharger, go stage 1. If you want stage 2 cams for your NA engine, you must not use them for boost.

Crower/Brian Crower DO make cams specifically for boosted applications, but in turn these will not work well if u are not boosted but plan on boosting later.
 
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