Input on my cam build?

16925 Views 201 Replies 37 Participants Last post by megrog2, May 29, 2009

09_SI

Discussion Starter · May 20, 2009

Hello everyone, so I wanted to go for a street cam build..
Little easier on the pockets and a little easier on the engine.
I was just wondering, for those of you with more knowledge than myself, would this be an ok build?

Acura/Honda

BrianCrower.com
(should I go with the titanium? by high mileage, do they mean the length that you're going to be using these on your car or whether your car already has high mileage?)

BrianCrower.com
BrianCrower.com
(should I stick with the standard diameter or go larger?)

OEM Chain Tensioners: The Weak Link | Hybrid Racing
(and purchasing that, whenever the hell it is released!)

I know all of the extras are not needed with the street cams I plan on purchasing, but I would rather do it for peace of mind knowing I did it right.
I did not want to go Stage 2+ because I don't believe I need anything that aggressive, especially when I only hit up the strip 2-3 times a year.
All educated input would be very much appreciated.
Thanks! :beer:

1 - 20 of 202 Posts

michinsi

· #2 · May 20, 2009

If you don't want stage 2, I'm assuming your going to go with stage 1 cams.
For stage 1 you can go skunk2 or toroku. Also for the chain tensioner look into Chunky's tensioner here. I'm currently running Chunky's TCT atm.
Btw...if you go with stage 1 cams you don't need to upgrade your valvetrain.

09_SI

Discussion Starter · #3 · May 20, 2009

Hey

Yeah they say the Toruku Street Cams are Stage 1.5 (whatever that means)
And if I do upgrade the valvetrain even if I don't need to, will I see any benefits out of it?

slow4drsi

· #4 · May 20, 2009

I personally won't go stage 1, its kind of waste of money 8-12whp gain for $500.00 plus install. Just stop and think about it, if you go stage 2 with kflash it will give you 220-230whp instead of 210-215whp with I/h/e.

michinsi

· #5 · May 20, 2009

slow4drsi said:
I personally won't go stage 1, its kind of waste of money 8-12whp gain for $500.00 plus install. Just stop and think about it, if you go stage 2 with kflash it will give you 220-230whp instead of 210-215whp with I/h/e.

I disagree. For just a regular street setup stage 1 cams would be great. Toroku cams are around $350ish and cam install is pretty easy.

09_SI said:
Hey
Yeah they say the Toruku Street Cams are Stage 1.5 (whatever that means)
And if I do upgrade the valvetrain even if I don't need to, will I see any benefits out of it?

With stage 1 cams no, stage 2 cams yes...whats the benefits? Your engine not taking a $h!t with.....brb I gotta go poop.

09_SI

Discussion Starter · #6 · May 20, 2009

slow4drsi said:
I personally won't go stage 1, its kind of waste of money 8-12whp gain for $500.00 plus install. Just stop and think about it, if you go stage 2 with kflash it will give you 220-230whp instead of 210-215whp with I/h/e.

If you read the link I posted, the Toruku Street Cams produce 15-20 whp off a basic I/H/E bolt-on car and does not need any extra upgrades to the valvetrain like michinsi stated.
15-20 is a very comfortable amount for the $350-375 I'll be spending, just wanted to reinforce my engine by doing the valvetrain anyway.

09_SI

Discussion Starter · #7 · May 20, 2009

With stage 1 cams no, stage 2 cams yes...whats the benefits? Your engine not taking a $h!t with.....brb I gotta go poop.[/QUOTE]

NO benefits at all? The valve spring/retainer kit is going to be a birthday present so it's not like it would be a big deal to me.. but should I just tell that person to use it towards something else?
I don't know...

Vantage

· #8 · May 20, 2009 (Edited)

slow4drsi, I understand where you are coming from with the stage 2 cam idea.

I used to run stage 3 cams (crower 404's) on my b18a, upgraded valvetrain and everything. I will never run anything over stage 2's again. The car would idle and die, ran very rough, and wasnt good for a daily.

But here is why I think you are wrong and why:

Stage 1 cams, relatively easy install. unbolt Valvecover, unbolt cam retainers, remove belt, remove cam shafts/cam gears, remove cam gear, install cam gear onto new shafts and install.

I did my own cams for my old stage 3 build, and the cams were easy.

Springs are retainers($350) I had to pay $300 bucks for install, and another $50 to deck the head, and a new head gasket($50) and to be safe ARP headstuds($75)

For a stage 1 cam. you can do the install yourself IMO after reading a DIY, and do not need springs retainers/install/head shaved/head gasket or new headstuds. Sure some of those arent manditory, but they are recommended.

So to tally it up we have:

Stage 1 cams: $500 for cams, maybe $100 for additional parts + tuning

Stage 2 cams: $500 cams, $300 for springs/retainers, $200 install, $40 head gasket, $100 for addition parts + tuning (more expensive than stage 1)

Stage 1 grand total: $600 and about 2 hours of time

Stage 2 grand total: $1150 and a few days, as many shops wont install the springs/retainers the same day u bring it in.

Using the low side of your numbers.
Stage 1: 210whp no headache's and only $600
Stage 2: 220whp a few more headaches and $1200.

Not everyone needs stage 2 cams, sure they make more topend, but they usually lack midrange.

People are paying $800 for a header to get 10whp, why not pay $600 for cams that net an equal gain.

IMO they are 2 very different beasts, and neither one is "better" than the other. All depends on what type of car you need.

After dealing with the headaches I went through, I will never buy a super lumpy bumpstick again.

*Edit* my damn post took so long everyone beat me to it

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michinsi

· #9 · May 20, 2009

Vantage said:
slow4drsi, I understand where you are coming from with the stage 2 cam idea.

I used to run stage 3 cams (crower 403's) on my b18a, upgraded valvetrain and everything. I will never run anything over stage 2's again. The car would idle and die, ran very rough, and wasnt good for a daily.

But here is why I think you are wrong and why:

Stage 1 cams, relatively easy install. unbolt Valvecover, unbolt cam retainers, remove belt, remove cam shafts/cam gears, remove cam gear, install cam gear onto new shafts and install.

I did my own cams for my old stage 3 build, and the cams were easy.

Springs are retainers($350) I had to pay $300 bucks for install, and another $50 to deck the head, and a new head gasket($50) and to be safe ARP headstuds($75)

For a stage 1 cam. you can do the install yourself IMO after reading a DIY, and do not need springs retainers/install/head shaved/head gasket or new headstuds. Sure some of those arent manditory, but they are recommended.

So to tally it up we have:

Stage 1 cams: $500 for cams, maybe $100 for additional parts + tuning

Stage 2 cams: $500 cams, $300 for springs/retainers, $200 install, $40 head gasket, $100 for addition parts + tuning (more expensive than stage 1)

Stage 1 grand total: $600 and about 2 hours of time

Stage 2 grand total: $1150 and a few days, as many shops wont install the springs/retainers the same day u bring it in.

Using the low side of your numbers.
Stage 1: 210whp no headache's and only $600
Stage 2: 220whp a few more headaches and $1200.

Not everyone needs stage 2 cams, sure they make more topend, but they usually lack midrange.

People are paying $800 for a header to get 10whp, why not pay $600 for cams that net an equal gain.

IMO they are 2 very different beasts, and neither one is "better" than the other. All depends on what type of car you need.

After dealing with the headaches I went through, I will never buy a super lumpy bumpstick again.

*Edit* my damn post took so long everyone beat me to it

Great post!
If you can install cams yourself go with stage 1, it'll save you a lot of headache. Stage 2 your going to need valvetrain upgrade and getting the valve springs out is a pain in the @$$.

Price wise its more like
Stage 1 = $375+labor + $200 = $575
Stage 2 = $900+labor + $400 = $1200

To the OP if you really just want a little extra bump in power for daily driver go with stage 1 cams. Stage 2 will be aggressive for daily driving, and you'll lose low end power. As for me, I drive a little hard and only drive 14 miles roundtrip a day so its not a real big problem for me.

bossman

· #10 · May 20, 2009

09_SI said:
Hello everyone, so I wanted to go for a street cam build..
Little easier on the pockets and a little easier on the engine.
I was just wondering, for those of you with more knowledge than myself, would this be an ok build?

Acura/Honda

BrianCrower.com
(should I go with the titanium? by high mileage, do they mean the length that you're going to be using these on your car or whether your car already has high mileage?)no,you do not need titanium,they are meant for full on race cars that will only see track/strip time and will get rebuilt often.Save your money and get normal ones.

BrianCrower.com
BrianCrower.com
(should I stick with the standard diameter or go larger?)

OEM Chain Tensioners: The Weak Link | Hybrid Racing
(and purchasing that, whenever the hell it is released!)

I know all of the extras are not needed with the street cams I plan on purchasing, but I would rather do it for peace of mind knowing I did it right.
I did not want to go Stage 2+ because I don't believe I need anything that aggressive, especially when I only hit up the strip 2-3 times a year.
All educated input would be very much appreciated.
Thanks! :beer:

Basically everything you need with a full build is going to help you on even a mild build.Even street cams can slam the valve on the valve seat when they close and upgraded valve springs will control that.If you did'nt guess it's important to control the valves so you don't lose cylinder pressure during the compression strock.Retainers and lighter valves will help maintain valvetrain stability and are definitely strongerFor a stock,or mild street build you don't have to go with oversized valves and I honestly could'nt tell you if they'd be worth it with just street cams and no head porting/valve work.

09_SI

Discussion Starter · #11 · May 20, 2009

Vantage, Michinsi, and bossman.
Thank you for all your time and input, good read and helped me understand things a lot better.
Looks like with Stage1 it isn't required to upgrade valvetrain, still not sure about my decision on whether I will do it or not.
But at the least I definitely will upgrade the chain tensioner. I guess I'll use the same Chunky's one as you michinsi. (has it done its job so far?)

slow4drsi

· #12 · May 20, 2009 (Edited)

I still think stage 2 is going to be cheaper in the long run, cause you will get tired of stage 1 right away 10-15whp is not that much. I'm just saying now that there's kflash why go stage 1?

Using the low side of your numbers.
Stage 1: 210whp no headache's and only $600
Stage 2: 220whp a few more headaches and $1200.

Not everyone needs stage 2 cams, sure they make more topend, but they usually lack midrange.

People are paying $800 for a header to get 10whp, why not pay $600 for cams that net an equal gain.

IMO they are 2 very different beasts, and neither one is "better" than the other. All depends on what type of car you need.

why is stage 2 headache?
I got jun3 stage 3 before in My Built lsv, I used it as My daily driver.
I understand your point man.But for Me once you modified your car, problems is always going to be there, warranty to begin with. And it's not going to be 10whp difference with stage 1 to stage 2.

I think going stage 1 with out the valvetrain upgraded is more headache thatn stage 2 with the valvetrain.

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09_SI

Discussion Starter · #13 · May 20, 2009

slow4drsi said:
I still think stage 2 is going to be cheaper in the long run, cause you will get tired of stage 1 right away 10-15whp is not that much. I'm just saying now that there's kflash why go stage 1?

Because, to each his/her own.

09_SI

Discussion Starter · #14 · May 20, 2009

Vantage said:
Stage 1 cams, relatively easy install. unbolt Valvecover, unbolt cam retainers, remove belt, remove cam shafts/cam gears, remove cam gear, install cam gear onto new shafts and install.

I have to purchase new shafts?
Sorry, still kind of new to this :wigglesmiley:

09_SI

Discussion Starter · #15 · May 20, 2009

slow4drsi said:
I think going stage 1 with out the valvetrain upgraded is more headache thatn stage 2 with the valvetrain.

hmm... elaborate?

09_SI

Discussion Starter · #16 · May 20, 2009

Well off to work, I'll read all the new/good information in 8 hours when I get back. That is if there is anything else

Thanks again guys, now I have to go make my cam money!

b.r.i.a.n.

· #17 · May 20, 2009

imo, i would never bother with a stage 1 cam.

just do it right the first time, upgrade the valvetrain and toss in some stage 2 cams.

slow4drsi

· #18 · May 20, 2009

b.r.i.a.n. said:
imo, i would never bother with a stage 1 cam.

just do it right the first time, upgrade the valvetrain and toss in some stage 2 cams.

Same here, but People are diffirent I respect their decision but I'm just stating My opinion.

michinsi

· #19 · May 20, 2009

09_SI said:
Vantage, Michinsi, and bossman.
Thank you for all your time and input, good read and helped me understand things a lot better.
Looks like with Stage1 it isn't required to upgrade valvetrain, still not sure about my decision on whether I will do it or not.
But at the least I definitely will upgrade the chain tensioner. I guess I'll use the same Chunky's one as you michinsi. (has it done its job so far?)

09_SI said:
I have to purchase new shafts?
Sorry, still kind of new to this :wigglesmiley:

No problem. Chunky's anti-fail tct has been doing the job properly.
Also for stage one you do not need anything, you just need the camshafts.

ecko01

· #20 · May 20, 2009

if u want to run a stage 1 cam ... run jdm k20a type R cams or 05-05 k20z1 cams they are the same

ryan

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