That's all you really need to say. Anything more is just inviting people to have a pissing match with you because they're not satisfied with your explanation.
Hondata announces the FlashPro
Hondata is pleased to announce a new tuning product - the FlashPro. Initially this will available for the Civic Si and Civic Type R.
The FlashPro allows you to custom tune your Civic Si for aftermarket performance products, including forced induction. Additionally you can datalog, graph & analyze your engine parameters.
Out of the box features which you will like is the ability to run any sized injector, switch to a speed/density (MAP) based calibration to bypass any air flow meter problems from forced induction and big cams, and use a VTEC window. There also are the usual table editing and parameters such are cam angle, ignition, fuel, closed loop etc.
The price is $695, including tuning/datalogging software, and the expected release date is in June. June this year, if you’re in doubt.
For more information see FlashPro
We will update the above page with answers to your questions as they come up.
Thank you for your patience – we’ve been looking forward to this moment for some time.
Answers to questions. Disclaimer: some features may change by the release, but we're trying to give the best answers we can at the moment to your questions.
- Are there base calibrations?
Yes, for all common part combinations, plus JR and CT superchargers.
- Do I need dyno tuning?
It is not necessary for common part combinations (intake, exhaust), but you still have the option of custom tuning if you wish to get a little more. Camshafts probably will need tuning to get the most of the them - it will depend on the camshaft manufacturer.
- Can I get rid of the AFM?
You can switch to a MAP based calibration (recommened for forced induction and/or cams). You need to still physically retain the AFM because it also contains the IAT sensor.
- CT supercharger Stage 1 owners may choose to upgrade directly to the FlashPro.
If you paid a deposit for a Stage II reflash, you will need to discuss upgrade options with whoever took your deposit as neither CT Engineering or Hondata take deposits.
- Will this work on R18s or automatics?
Initially the FlashPro is for the US/Canada Si and Euro/Asia CTR. ECU part numbers are listed on our website.
- Will this work on more than one vehicle?
The FlashPro is locked to one vehicle. It can be unlocked and transferred to another vehicle by returning the ECU to stock.
- Can I share the calibrations I make for my car?
Yes.
- Do I need the laptop in the vehicle to reflash the ECU?
No. The FlashPro can upload either with or without a laptop.
- Is there a VTEC window?
Yes. This means that VTEC will operate based on rpm and engine load. For example, the supercharger reflashes have a VTEC window from 3200 rpm - 6000 rpm. At full throttle, VTEC operates at 3200 rpm. At light throttle, VTEC operates at 6000 rpm, and for load between full and light the VTEC will shift between 3200 rpm and 6000 rpm. (Engine load (MAP) is actually used to determine the switch point, but I've use throttle to illustrate the example). You can see some of this in a screen shot http://www.hondata.com/images/flashp...n-ignition.gif
Note that a VTEC window is more than just a VTEC point which you can vary by rpm - it has load characteristics too.
- So does that mean 1 unit Hondata flashpro can only work with one ecu or car only? Which mean i can't buy one set flashpro and used it together with a few of my buddies civics?
On ECU and vehicle at a time. You can unlock the FlashPro by returning the ECU to stock, and then transfer to another vehicle.
- Does it have control over DBW?
Yes, but we don't change anything to do with DBW. The first reason is that there is no need to - the DBW control works fairly well as it is. The second reason is for legal liability.
- Any option of immobilizer control?
The immobilizer can not be disabled. We've implemented a number of features designed to protect the owner of the vehicle from theft, and one of these is not to allow the immobilizer to be disabled. This is going to be much less of an issue than previous products because the ECU does not need to be removed / swapped.
- 90 sec programming - does that mean it can't do real time tuning?
Correct. In any case, if you are tuning a vehicle, you need to wait longer than 90 seconds between dyno runs in order to maintain consistency between runs. If you think you could set the dyno up as constant rpm or load, and then tune each cell in each table, this type of tuning does not work because the engine temperature and therefore output changes fairly rapidly, prohibiting this type of tuning.
- If the ECU had been reflashed by another maker, can Flashpro still work?
Probably - we could tell you based off the ECU part & serial numbers plus the calibration ID. When you unlock the FlashPro it will only be reflashed back to a stock calibration.
-Will this support a 64-Bit windows vista?
Not at first. We need to make sure the USB driver is working 100% before handing over the money to Microsoft, because after that every change to the USB driver incurrs a substantial cost to re-certify.
Edit: We have tested with Windows Vista 32 & 64 bit, and Windows 7 RC1 32 & 64 bit - the drivers work. This is a little puzzling as the 64 bit drivers are signed by us, but not certified by WinQual, so we would not expect them to work on Vista 64 and Windows 7 64 bit.
- can it control nitrous?
Not at the moment. However, you can at least control the ignition timing to make nitrous safer.
- Preorders?
Hondata is not taking preorders, but some of our dealers are.
- Will dealers need a software license?
No. Every FlashPro will come with the full tuning software FlashProManager.
- Are there training materials?
Three training videos to the FlashPro page.
- I have X intake, Y header and fluffy things hanging from my mirror. How much power will I make with your system?
I can take 5 stock, same model Hondas and make 5 different power figures on one dyno.
I can take one Honda to 5 different dynos and get 5 different power figures.
There are a huge number of combinations of cam, intake, header and catback. Some parts work and others do not. This system will allow you to tune your airfuel ratio, ignition and cam angle to match your combination of parts and fuel type. We are providing the tuning ability. The power you make is up to your (intelligent) combination of parts and tuning.
- Does it fix the rev hang?
Yes. The rev hang is the result of the injectors continuing to provide fuel for a period of time after the throttle is closed. This time is reduced by the calibrations provided with the FlashPro and the revs drop much sooner after throttle liftoff.
- Can it eliminate the second o2 sensor?
Yes. The secondary oxygen sensor is used to monitor the catalytic converter efficiency and assist with closed loop operation. For off road racing use in which a catalytic converter is not desirable, the secondary oxygen sensor can be disabled using the FlashProManager software without any negative affect on the tuning or operation of the car.
- What about smog with a MAP calibration?
According to US and CA law the FlashPro is for off road use only. However, if you did smog you would find the readiness codes supported and complete.
The FlashPro allows you to custom tune your Civic Si for aftermarket performance products, including forced induction. Additionally you can datalog, graph & analyze your engine parameters.
Out of the box features which you will like is the ability to run any sized injector, switch to a speed/density (MAP) based calibration to bypass any air flow meter problems from forced induction and big cams, and use a VTEC window. There also are the usual table editing and parameters such are cam angle, ignition, fuel, closed loop etc.
The price is $695, including tuning/datalogging software, and the expected release date is in June. June this year, if you’re in doubt.
For more information see FlashPro
We will update the above page with answers to your questions as they come up.
Thank you for your patience – we’ve been looking forward to this moment for some time.
Answers to questions. Disclaimer: some features may change by the release, but we're trying to give the best answers we can at the moment to your questions.
- Are there base calibrations?
Yes, for all common part combinations, plus JR and CT superchargers.
- Do I need dyno tuning?
It is not necessary for common part combinations (intake, exhaust), but you still have the option of custom tuning if you wish to get a little more. Camshafts probably will need tuning to get the most of the them - it will depend on the camshaft manufacturer.
- Can I get rid of the AFM?
You can switch to a MAP based calibration (recommened for forced induction and/or cams). You need to still physically retain the AFM because it also contains the IAT sensor.
- CT supercharger Stage 1 owners may choose to upgrade directly to the FlashPro.
If you paid a deposit for a Stage II reflash, you will need to discuss upgrade options with whoever took your deposit as neither CT Engineering or Hondata take deposits.
- Will this work on R18s or automatics?
Initially the FlashPro is for the US/Canada Si and Euro/Asia CTR. ECU part numbers are listed on our website.
- Will this work on more than one vehicle?
The FlashPro is locked to one vehicle. It can be unlocked and transferred to another vehicle by returning the ECU to stock.
- Can I share the calibrations I make for my car?
Yes.
- Do I need the laptop in the vehicle to reflash the ECU?
No. The FlashPro can upload either with or without a laptop.
- Is there a VTEC window?
Yes. This means that VTEC will operate based on rpm and engine load. For example, the supercharger reflashes have a VTEC window from 3200 rpm - 6000 rpm. At full throttle, VTEC operates at 3200 rpm. At light throttle, VTEC operates at 6000 rpm, and for load between full and light the VTEC will shift between 3200 rpm and 6000 rpm. (Engine load (MAP) is actually used to determine the switch point, but I've use throttle to illustrate the example). You can see some of this in a screen shot http://www.hondata.com/images/flashp...n-ignition.gif
Note that a VTEC window is more than just a VTEC point which you can vary by rpm - it has load characteristics too.
- So does that mean 1 unit Hondata flashpro can only work with one ecu or car only? Which mean i can't buy one set flashpro and used it together with a few of my buddies civics?
On ECU and vehicle at a time. You can unlock the FlashPro by returning the ECU to stock, and then transfer to another vehicle.
- Does it have control over DBW?
Yes, but we don't change anything to do with DBW. The first reason is that there is no need to - the DBW control works fairly well as it is. The second reason is for legal liability.
- Any option of immobilizer control?
The immobilizer can not be disabled. We've implemented a number of features designed to protect the owner of the vehicle from theft, and one of these is not to allow the immobilizer to be disabled. This is going to be much less of an issue than previous products because the ECU does not need to be removed / swapped.
- 90 sec programming - does that mean it can't do real time tuning?
Correct. In any case, if you are tuning a vehicle, you need to wait longer than 90 seconds between dyno runs in order to maintain consistency between runs. If you think you could set the dyno up as constant rpm or load, and then tune each cell in each table, this type of tuning does not work because the engine temperature and therefore output changes fairly rapidly, prohibiting this type of tuning.
- If the ECU had been reflashed by another maker, can Flashpro still work?
Probably - we could tell you based off the ECU part & serial numbers plus the calibration ID. When you unlock the FlashPro it will only be reflashed back to a stock calibration.
-Will this support a 64-Bit windows vista?
Not at first. We need to make sure the USB driver is working 100% before handing over the money to Microsoft, because after that every change to the USB driver incurrs a substantial cost to re-certify.
Edit: We have tested with Windows Vista 32 & 64 bit, and Windows 7 RC1 32 & 64 bit - the drivers work. This is a little puzzling as the 64 bit drivers are signed by us, but not certified by WinQual, so we would not expect them to work on Vista 64 and Windows 7 64 bit.
- can it control nitrous?
Not at the moment. However, you can at least control the ignition timing to make nitrous safer.
- Preorders?
Hondata is not taking preorders, but some of our dealers are.
- Will dealers need a software license?
No. Every FlashPro will come with the full tuning software FlashProManager.
- Are there training materials?
Three training videos to the FlashPro page.
- I have X intake, Y header and fluffy things hanging from my mirror. How much power will I make with your system?
I can take 5 stock, same model Hondas and make 5 different power figures on one dyno.
I can take one Honda to 5 different dynos and get 5 different power figures.
There are a huge number of combinations of cam, intake, header and catback. Some parts work and others do not. This system will allow you to tune your airfuel ratio, ignition and cam angle to match your combination of parts and fuel type. We are providing the tuning ability. The power you make is up to your (intelligent) combination of parts and tuning.
- Does it fix the rev hang?
Yes. The rev hang is the result of the injectors continuing to provide fuel for a period of time after the throttle is closed. This time is reduced by the calibrations provided with the FlashPro and the revs drop much sooner after throttle liftoff.
- Can it eliminate the second o2 sensor?
Yes. The secondary oxygen sensor is used to monitor the catalytic converter efficiency and assist with closed loop operation. For off road racing use in which a catalytic converter is not desirable, the secondary oxygen sensor can be disabled using the FlashProManager software without any negative affect on the tuning or operation of the car.
- What about smog with a MAP calibration?
According to US and CA law the FlashPro is for off road use only. However, if you did smog you would find the readiness codes supported and complete.
141 - 160 of 2042 Posts
still very shady business none the less. lots of us have called and got the run around with them. If they have been working on it since 2005 you woulda thought they woulda been honest with us. I remember waiting eagerly for them to release something at sema. Nothing happened but me and lots of others getting pissed off.In Hondata's defense, I started a thread on 3-16-09 about an e-mail I had sent to Modified Magazine Editor Peter Tarach. In that thread, I mentioned that there was no tuning option for us at this time.
Hondata came into that thread and refuted that. http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/bolt-ons-all-motor/146000-got-reply-editor-modified-magazine.html
I then messaged Doug of Hondata and asked for permission to start a thread announcing the soon to be released programmable ECU option. http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/bolt...a-offer-user-programmable-solution-k20z3.html
Hondata came here before Cobb Tuning mentioned that they were also working on a tuning option for our cars. I feel it is just a coincidence that both companies are releasing products around the same time. In any event, shouldn't we all be happy that this finally came out rather than ***** and moan?
does it come with R18 love? :sadwavy:
who knows. im in a much better platform now anyways. so actually thanks hondata and thanks james for opening my eyes to hondata saving me from pissing more money down the drain.And you woulda never got rid of the SI
An AccessPort is 1000000000% fully programmable.whats not cool is u cant tune it...u have to settle with a basemap that generalizes for each mod and cant fully tune the mod u have
I realize that, but say I don't have enough to afford Flash Pro AND getting it tuned. It wouldn't make sense for me to purchase the reflash for 595 and then another 700 in the future to get my car tuned, would it? I'm just saying it'd be cool if it came with the reflash on it so I only pay 100 more to get the flash pro with the reflash on it and then when I have money to get it tuned I can take it to whichever tuner and go from there.they'll have training videos on the hondata site. if you really want to get the full potential out of your car a tuner will be the best way to go.
Does that make sense?
wow just be happy!! thats like telling honda you bought an 08 and you want the look of the 09 and they didnt tell you that they were going to change the body style so you think they should sell you an 09 for half off... think about it!
we knew they were going to change the body style.wow just be happy!! thats like telling honda you bought an 08 and you want the look of the 09 and they didnt tell you that they were going to change the body style so you think they should sell you an 09 for half off... think about it!
or they could just post the parameters in the manual for the unit that is the same as the flash you can get now. OR maybe if someone who currently has been flashed hooks it up to there car and reads the current settings they can post up what they are and then you can just copy them when/if you get one?I realize that, but say I don't have enough to afford Flash Pro AND getting it tuned. It wouldn't make sense for me to purchase the reflash for 595 and then another 700 in the future to get my car tuned, would it? I'm just saying it'd be cool if it came with the reflash on it so I only pay 100 more to get the flash pro with the reflash on it and then when I have money to get it tuned I can take it to whichever tuner and go from there.
Does that make sense?
Hell my biggest issue with it is that i run on Mac computer (pre intel) and I wont be able to do anything with the unit myself...... grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
This thread made my day... although reading through 12 pages of bitching was depressing, i am happy nonetheless. I'll wait till Cobb releases their stuff and then i'll make a decision based off that. As of right now, looks like Hondata is the way to go... finally!
I was planning to go stage 2 but now I think my N/A dream might come true. 10K N/A screamer here I come!!!
I was planning to go stage 2 but now I think my N/A dream might come true. 10K N/A screamer here I come!!!
i get what your saying. you would be able to do it yourself with the data logging.I realize that, but say I don't have enough to afford Flash Pro AND getting it tuned. It wouldn't make sense for me to purchase the reflash for 595 and then another 700 in the future to get my car tuned, would it? I'm just saying it'd be cool if it came with the reflash on it so I only pay 100 more to get the flash pro with the reflash on it and then when I have money to get it tuned I can take it to whichever tuner and go from there.
Does that make sense?
Hmmmm..... i wonder if the programming software will run on window CE, then i might be able to get it to run in my Avic f90 and program it from there................
There are base maps for common configurations.
The FlashPro is for off road use only. However, the emissions are unchanged from stock.
Many people will try to compare the KPro with FlashPro, and we want them to understand they are different products, and will end up with different feature sets.what kinda things will kflash not have that kpro does ? can we still pass emissions or will it be time to look for under the table NYSI lol "Not all features implemented in KPro are possible with FlashPro." care to elaborate please ?
The FlashPro is for off road use only. However, the emissions are unchanged from stock.
what kinda of power gains does hondata predict with just basic boltons?
This is great news for the Si community. Too bad I just sold my 06 boosted Si, this looks like it would be really easy to tune and has everything you want. Now it isn't all sad for me since I bought an Evo X(though I still have and always will have Honda love, though the Evo is a ridiculously better performer and modable car ) and have the Cobb AP for that, which is a sick piece of equipment. One advantage you have on the AP is the real-time monitors, and it has a bazillion maps, way way more fine tuning maps, there are like 2 or 3 maps just for fine tuning the airflow capability on an intake/filter, ridiculous.
There is a downside to that though, the FlashPro software looks much easier for the self-tuner to use. I have the Cobb AccessTuner Race software and it uses a very different approach in tuning.
AP is $695 as well, which is nice... I think either way you can't go wrong. If you want to self-tune I think I'd go with the Hondata unit, their software is way easy to use. This is why you had such a delay, I felt they were doing a flash based system and felt all along that because they were doing a flash system that they would have to create new software which can take a very long time to develop. This is obviously the same type of system they proprietorially have been using all along for their reflashes.... and making a fortune off those. It's pretty stupid to buy a reflash after this point...
) and have the Cobb AP for that, which is a sick piece of equipment. One advantage you have on the AP is the real-time monitors, and it has a bazillion maps, way way more fine tuning maps, there are like 2 or 3 maps just for fine tuning the airflow capability on an intake/filter, ridiculous. There is a downside to that though, the FlashPro software looks much easier for the self-tuner to use. I have the Cobb AccessTuner Race software and it uses a very different approach in tuning.
AP is $695 as well, which is nice... I think either way you can't go wrong. If you want to self-tune I think I'd go with the Hondata unit, their software is way easy to use. This is why you had such a delay, I felt they were doing a flash based system and felt all along that because they were doing a flash system that they would have to create new software which can take a very long time to develop. This is obviously the same type of system they proprietorially have been using all along for their reflashes.... and making a fortune off those. It's pretty stupid to buy a reflash after this point...
I agree, throw some bigger cams and the R18 will make nice power for an econo engine.In 4 R18 support asap!
As with the reflash, is the DBW system untouched? I would love to make the throttle linear like a true throttle cable. (IE: 10% foot throttle = 10% at the TB, 50% = 50%, etc.).
:yeahthat::yeahthat:what kinda of power gains does hondata predict with just basic boltons?
i still dont know .... is this a full programable system ? can i now finally get a stroker kit, cams , control nitrous with flashpro
once this is installed , can i take it to a race shop and have it dynotuned for maximum performance or is there something still holding us back ?
once this is installed , can i take it to a race shop and have it dynotuned for maximum performance or is there something still holding us back ?
141 - 160 of 2042 Posts
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