First Id like to thank HONDATA for giving this jewel to us...Second y is everyone complaining about price and what they paid previously to Hondata. Research and development costs lots of money and I would pay 10 times over to finally have this, Tuning Cars costs money if u get in the game be prepared to spend lots of money on ur whip so either except it or dont mod ur car at all and get a Scooter.
Hondata announces the FlashPro
Hondata is pleased to announce a new tuning product - the FlashPro. Initially this will available for the Civic Si and Civic Type R.
The FlashPro allows you to custom tune your Civic Si for aftermarket performance products, including forced induction. Additionally you can datalog, graph & analyze your engine parameters.
Out of the box features which you will like is the ability to run any sized injector, switch to a speed/density (MAP) based calibration to bypass any air flow meter problems from forced induction and big cams, and use a VTEC window. There also are the usual table editing and parameters such are cam angle, ignition, fuel, closed loop etc.
The price is $695, including tuning/datalogging software, and the expected release date is in June. June this year, if you’re in doubt.
For more information see FlashPro
We will update the above page with answers to your questions as they come up.
Thank you for your patience – we’ve been looking forward to this moment for some time.
Answers to questions. Disclaimer: some features may change by the release, but we're trying to give the best answers we can at the moment to your questions.
- Are there base calibrations?
Yes, for all common part combinations, plus JR and CT superchargers.
- Do I need dyno tuning?
It is not necessary for common part combinations (intake, exhaust), but you still have the option of custom tuning if you wish to get a little more. Camshafts probably will need tuning to get the most of the them - it will depend on the camshaft manufacturer.
- Can I get rid of the AFM?
You can switch to a MAP based calibration (recommened for forced induction and/or cams). You need to still physically retain the AFM because it also contains the IAT sensor.
- CT supercharger Stage 1 owners may choose to upgrade directly to the FlashPro.
If you paid a deposit for a Stage II reflash, you will need to discuss upgrade options with whoever took your deposit as neither CT Engineering or Hondata take deposits.
- Will this work on R18s or automatics?
Initially the FlashPro is for the US/Canada Si and Euro/Asia CTR. ECU part numbers are listed on our website.
- Will this work on more than one vehicle?
The FlashPro is locked to one vehicle. It can be unlocked and transferred to another vehicle by returning the ECU to stock.
- Can I share the calibrations I make for my car?
Yes.
- Do I need the laptop in the vehicle to reflash the ECU?
No. The FlashPro can upload either with or without a laptop.
- Is there a VTEC window?
Yes. This means that VTEC will operate based on rpm and engine load. For example, the supercharger reflashes have a VTEC window from 3200 rpm - 6000 rpm. At full throttle, VTEC operates at 3200 rpm. At light throttle, VTEC operates at 6000 rpm, and for load between full and light the VTEC will shift between 3200 rpm and 6000 rpm. (Engine load (MAP) is actually used to determine the switch point, but I've use throttle to illustrate the example). You can see some of this in a screen shot http://www.hondata.com/images/flashp...n-ignition.gif
Note that a VTEC window is more than just a VTEC point which you can vary by rpm - it has load characteristics too.
- So does that mean 1 unit Hondata flashpro can only work with one ecu or car only? Which mean i can't buy one set flashpro and used it together with a few of my buddies civics?
On ECU and vehicle at a time. You can unlock the FlashPro by returning the ECU to stock, and then transfer to another vehicle.
- Does it have control over DBW?
Yes, but we don't change anything to do with DBW. The first reason is that there is no need to - the DBW control works fairly well as it is. The second reason is for legal liability.
- Any option of immobilizer control?
The immobilizer can not be disabled. We've implemented a number of features designed to protect the owner of the vehicle from theft, and one of these is not to allow the immobilizer to be disabled. This is going to be much less of an issue than previous products because the ECU does not need to be removed / swapped.
- 90 sec programming - does that mean it can't do real time tuning?
Correct. In any case, if you are tuning a vehicle, you need to wait longer than 90 seconds between dyno runs in order to maintain consistency between runs. If you think you could set the dyno up as constant rpm or load, and then tune each cell in each table, this type of tuning does not work because the engine temperature and therefore output changes fairly rapidly, prohibiting this type of tuning.
- If the ECU had been reflashed by another maker, can Flashpro still work?
Probably - we could tell you based off the ECU part & serial numbers plus the calibration ID. When you unlock the FlashPro it will only be reflashed back to a stock calibration.
-Will this support a 64-Bit windows vista?
Not at first. We need to make sure the USB driver is working 100% before handing over the money to Microsoft, because after that every change to the USB driver incurrs a substantial cost to re-certify.
Edit: We have tested with Windows Vista 32 & 64 bit, and Windows 7 RC1 32 & 64 bit - the drivers work. This is a little puzzling as the 64 bit drivers are signed by us, but not certified by WinQual, so we would not expect them to work on Vista 64 and Windows 7 64 bit.
- can it control nitrous?
Not at the moment. However, you can at least control the ignition timing to make nitrous safer.
- Preorders?
Hondata is not taking preorders, but some of our dealers are.
- Will dealers need a software license?
No. Every FlashPro will come with the full tuning software FlashProManager.
- Are there training materials?
Three training videos to the FlashPro page.
- I have X intake, Y header and fluffy things hanging from my mirror. How much power will I make with your system?
I can take 5 stock, same model Hondas and make 5 different power figures on one dyno.
I can take one Honda to 5 different dynos and get 5 different power figures.
There are a huge number of combinations of cam, intake, header and catback. Some parts work and others do not. This system will allow you to tune your airfuel ratio, ignition and cam angle to match your combination of parts and fuel type. We are providing the tuning ability. The power you make is up to your (intelligent) combination of parts and tuning.
- Does it fix the rev hang?
Yes. The rev hang is the result of the injectors continuing to provide fuel for a period of time after the throttle is closed. This time is reduced by the calibrations provided with the FlashPro and the revs drop much sooner after throttle liftoff.
- Can it eliminate the second o2 sensor?
Yes. The secondary oxygen sensor is used to monitor the catalytic converter efficiency and assist with closed loop operation. For off road racing use in which a catalytic converter is not desirable, the secondary oxygen sensor can be disabled using the FlashProManager software without any negative affect on the tuning or operation of the car.
- What about smog with a MAP calibration?
According to US and CA law the FlashPro is for off road use only. However, if you did smog you would find the readiness codes supported and complete.
The FlashPro allows you to custom tune your Civic Si for aftermarket performance products, including forced induction. Additionally you can datalog, graph & analyze your engine parameters.
Out of the box features which you will like is the ability to run any sized injector, switch to a speed/density (MAP) based calibration to bypass any air flow meter problems from forced induction and big cams, and use a VTEC window. There also are the usual table editing and parameters such are cam angle, ignition, fuel, closed loop etc.
The price is $695, including tuning/datalogging software, and the expected release date is in June. June this year, if you’re in doubt.
For more information see FlashPro
We will update the above page with answers to your questions as they come up.
Thank you for your patience – we’ve been looking forward to this moment for some time.
Answers to questions. Disclaimer: some features may change by the release, but we're trying to give the best answers we can at the moment to your questions.
- Are there base calibrations?
Yes, for all common part combinations, plus JR and CT superchargers.
- Do I need dyno tuning?
It is not necessary for common part combinations (intake, exhaust), but you still have the option of custom tuning if you wish to get a little more. Camshafts probably will need tuning to get the most of the them - it will depend on the camshaft manufacturer.
- Can I get rid of the AFM?
You can switch to a MAP based calibration (recommened for forced induction and/or cams). You need to still physically retain the AFM because it also contains the IAT sensor.
- CT supercharger Stage 1 owners may choose to upgrade directly to the FlashPro.
If you paid a deposit for a Stage II reflash, you will need to discuss upgrade options with whoever took your deposit as neither CT Engineering or Hondata take deposits.
- Will this work on R18s or automatics?
Initially the FlashPro is for the US/Canada Si and Euro/Asia CTR. ECU part numbers are listed on our website.
- Will this work on more than one vehicle?
The FlashPro is locked to one vehicle. It can be unlocked and transferred to another vehicle by returning the ECU to stock.
- Can I share the calibrations I make for my car?
Yes.
- Do I need the laptop in the vehicle to reflash the ECU?
No. The FlashPro can upload either with or without a laptop.
- Is there a VTEC window?
Yes. This means that VTEC will operate based on rpm and engine load. For example, the supercharger reflashes have a VTEC window from 3200 rpm - 6000 rpm. At full throttle, VTEC operates at 3200 rpm. At light throttle, VTEC operates at 6000 rpm, and for load between full and light the VTEC will shift between 3200 rpm and 6000 rpm. (Engine load (MAP) is actually used to determine the switch point, but I've use throttle to illustrate the example). You can see some of this in a screen shot http://www.hondata.com/images/flashp...n-ignition.gif
Note that a VTEC window is more than just a VTEC point which you can vary by rpm - it has load characteristics too.
- So does that mean 1 unit Hondata flashpro can only work with one ecu or car only? Which mean i can't buy one set flashpro and used it together with a few of my buddies civics?
On ECU and vehicle at a time. You can unlock the FlashPro by returning the ECU to stock, and then transfer to another vehicle.
- Does it have control over DBW?
Yes, but we don't change anything to do with DBW. The first reason is that there is no need to - the DBW control works fairly well as it is. The second reason is for legal liability.
- Any option of immobilizer control?
The immobilizer can not be disabled. We've implemented a number of features designed to protect the owner of the vehicle from theft, and one of these is not to allow the immobilizer to be disabled. This is going to be much less of an issue than previous products because the ECU does not need to be removed / swapped.
- 90 sec programming - does that mean it can't do real time tuning?
Correct. In any case, if you are tuning a vehicle, you need to wait longer than 90 seconds between dyno runs in order to maintain consistency between runs. If you think you could set the dyno up as constant rpm or load, and then tune each cell in each table, this type of tuning does not work because the engine temperature and therefore output changes fairly rapidly, prohibiting this type of tuning.
- If the ECU had been reflashed by another maker, can Flashpro still work?
Probably - we could tell you based off the ECU part & serial numbers plus the calibration ID. When you unlock the FlashPro it will only be reflashed back to a stock calibration.
-Will this support a 64-Bit windows vista?
Not at first. We need to make sure the USB driver is working 100% before handing over the money to Microsoft, because after that every change to the USB driver incurrs a substantial cost to re-certify.
Edit: We have tested with Windows Vista 32 & 64 bit, and Windows 7 RC1 32 & 64 bit - the drivers work. This is a little puzzling as the 64 bit drivers are signed by us, but not certified by WinQual, so we would not expect them to work on Vista 64 and Windows 7 64 bit.
- can it control nitrous?
Not at the moment. However, you can at least control the ignition timing to make nitrous safer.
- Preorders?
Hondata is not taking preorders, but some of our dealers are.
- Will dealers need a software license?
No. Every FlashPro will come with the full tuning software FlashProManager.
- Are there training materials?
Three training videos to the FlashPro page.
- I have X intake, Y header and fluffy things hanging from my mirror. How much power will I make with your system?
I can take 5 stock, same model Hondas and make 5 different power figures on one dyno.
I can take one Honda to 5 different dynos and get 5 different power figures.
There are a huge number of combinations of cam, intake, header and catback. Some parts work and others do not. This system will allow you to tune your airfuel ratio, ignition and cam angle to match your combination of parts and fuel type. We are providing the tuning ability. The power you make is up to your (intelligent) combination of parts and tuning.
- Does it fix the rev hang?
Yes. The rev hang is the result of the injectors continuing to provide fuel for a period of time after the throttle is closed. This time is reduced by the calibrations provided with the FlashPro and the revs drop much sooner after throttle liftoff.
- Can it eliminate the second o2 sensor?
Yes. The secondary oxygen sensor is used to monitor the catalytic converter efficiency and assist with closed loop operation. For off road racing use in which a catalytic converter is not desirable, the secondary oxygen sensor can be disabled using the FlashProManager software without any negative affect on the tuning or operation of the car.
- What about smog with a MAP calibration?
According to US and CA law the FlashPro is for off road use only. However, if you did smog you would find the readiness codes supported and complete.
121 - 140 of 2042 Posts
im glad i am not the only person thinking that. To many people going crazy over this. Plus the ap for the evo is only 600 bucks. I bet they will be cheaper than hondata too.I would be willing to bet they had this ready to go as soon as another company steped up.
keep the COBB talk out of this thread. we dont want it to get locked because of arguing. nothing against them but hondata did start the thread.
Hondatas website:
Because FlashPro is a different product from KPro, it has different features. Not all features implemented in KPro are possible with FlashPro.
:yeahthat:keep the COBB talk out of this thread. we dont want it to get locked because of arguing. nothing against them but hondata did start the thread.
fftopic::excited:
so what should be be talking about? how wonderful they are and the great business that they have? I dont think so.keep the COBB talk out of this thread. we dont want it to get locked because of arguing. nothing against them but hondata did start the thread.
nice catch. i didnt even look at that but i was guessing that it would not be as good just due to the price of the program.Hondatas website:
Well, good thing is there wont be any down time with having to send in our Ecu's!:woot:
I can understand all the complaints. The reason people are unhappy is because Hondata looks really shady with this release. Now, I really have no clue as to whether Hondata planned to do this, but it just LOOKS like they were delaying the release in order to get more people to buy their reflash. Then, when the time was right (in other words, a competitor called COBB announced the AP) they decided it was a good time to announce the FlashPro. But of course, Hondata is a business, and they played it out as any business wanting to maximize profits would.
We started work on this in 2005. We announced publicly well over a year ago that we were going to make a product for the Si. How would it be to our advantage to delay a release? It would make no sense to do so. Sometimes the simplest explaination is the correct one.
So if we get this do we get any sort of base map or anything? It'd be nice if it came with the reflash so if we had bolt on's and didn't have time to take the car to a tuner it could hold us off.
they were making to much money off reflashes to actually release a programmable setup... as soon as they saw that their market share was about to be cut in half, they jumped back in to make sure they are on top.
smart business decisions... but that doesnt mean we have to like them.
i could give two shits either way as long as we get something that works correctly and finally allows us to build our cars.... be it cobb or hondata.
:1: to hondata for actually making this platform take a jump in the right direction.
hopefully there will be more aftermarket support for our cars after this is released.
smart business decisions... but that doesnt mean we have to like them.
i could give two shits either way as long as we get something that works correctly and finally allows us to build our cars.... be it cobb or hondata.
:1: to hondata for actually making this platform take a jump in the right direction.
hopefully there will be more aftermarket support for our cars after this is released.
stop bashing hondata... jesus...
I suddenly see more stuff coming out for our cars now that they can be tuned to work with them. No matter who puts out a ECU tuner for our cars (cobb or hondata) its still a VERY VERY good thing to have happen for us. Helll having 2 companies put out tuners for us will make it even better b/c some of the aftermarket companies will see that there IS a big interest in performance in the civic community!!! I won't be getting either myself anytime soon, but I do plan on doing it eventually when I hve the extra $ and time to work on the mugen!!
they'll have training videos on the hondata site. if you really want to get the full potential out of your car a tuner will be the best way to go.So if we get this do we get any sort of base map or anything? It'd be nice if it came with the reflash so if we had bolt on's and didn't have time to take the car to a tuner it could hold us off.
In Hondata's defense, I started a thread on 3-16-09 about an e-mail I had sent to Modified Magazine Editor Peter Tarach. In that thread, I mentioned that there was no tuning option for us at this time.
Hondata came into that thread and refuted that. http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/bolt-ons-all-motor/146000-got-reply-editor-modified-magazine.html
I then messaged Doug of Hondata and asked for permission to start a thread announcing the soon to be released programmable ECU option. http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/bolt...a-offer-user-programmable-solution-k20z3.html
Hondata came here before Cobb Tuning mentioned that they were also working on a tuning option for our cars. I feel it is just a coincidence that both companies are releasing products around the same time. In any event, shouldn't we all be happy that this finally came out rather than ***** and moan?
Hondata came into that thread and refuted that. http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/bolt-ons-all-motor/146000-got-reply-editor-modified-magazine.html
I then messaged Doug of Hondata and asked for permission to start a thread announcing the soon to be released programmable ECU option. http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/bolt...a-offer-user-programmable-solution-k20z3.html
Hondata came here before Cobb Tuning mentioned that they were also working on a tuning option for our cars. I feel it is just a coincidence that both companies are releasing products around the same time. In any event, shouldn't we all be happy that this finally came out rather than ***** and moan?
im not complaining about the price im sold as soon as i read this but $800 when k-pro is (1500 w/ no tune)We started work on this in 2005. We announced publicly well over a year ago that we were going to make a product for the Si. How would it be to our advantage to delay a release? It would make no sense to do so. Sometimes the simplest explaination is the correct one.
whats the deal ? is this a FULL EMS can we now use this for nitrous setups ? aggressive cams? BORED motors ? differ comp pistons
is this the FINAL DEAL ? if it is THANK GOD FOR ALL THE WAITING
what kinda things will kflash not have that kpro does ? can we still pass emissions or will it be time to look for under the table NYSI lol
"Not all features implemented in KPro are possible with FlashPro."
care to elaborate please ?
it would be to your advantage because you could sell a reflash to someone in april and then release this a month or two later. now they paid 600 for the reflash and 600 for the flash pro. It does not take a genius to do that math. $1200 or $600.We started work on this in 2005. We announced publicly well over a year ago that we were going to make a product for the Si. How would it be to our advantage to delay a release? It would make no sense to do so. Sometimes the simplest explaination is the correct one.
I completely agree with you. Irregardless, I am overjoyed that a tuning solution is about to be released for our cars.they were making to much money off reflashes to actually release a programmable setup... as soon as they saw that their market share was about to be cut in half, they jumped back in to make sure they are on top.
smart business decisions... but that doesnt mean we have to like them.
i could give two shits either way as long as we get something that works correctly and finally allows us to build our cars.... be it cobb or hondata.
:1: to hondata for actually making this platform take a jump in the right direction.
hopefully there will be more aftermarket support for our cars after this is released.
People will find a reason to whine about anything. I'm thrilled right now... no amount of bitching can bring me down :spinning:In any event, shouldn't we all be happy that this finally came out rather than ***** and moan?
121 - 140 of 2042 Posts
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