The AJP tune would be great to start with. I don't really care what tune it is as long as it's a starting point. 3 days on the dyno is going to be SUPER expensive. But if it has to be then it has to be. I still want to know if you could use a kpro turbo map and just copy the fuel and ignition tables over and the cam angle settings. The motors are so similar.
Hondata announces the FlashPro
Hondata is pleased to announce a new tuning product - the FlashPro. Initially this will available for the Civic Si and Civic Type R.
The FlashPro allows you to custom tune your Civic Si for aftermarket performance products, including forced induction. Additionally you can datalog, graph & analyze your engine parameters.
Out of the box features which you will like is the ability to run any sized injector, switch to a speed/density (MAP) based calibration to bypass any air flow meter problems from forced induction and big cams, and use a VTEC window. There also are the usual table editing and parameters such are cam angle, ignition, fuel, closed loop etc.
The price is $695, including tuning/datalogging software, and the expected release date is in June. June this year, if you’re in doubt.
For more information see FlashPro
We will update the above page with answers to your questions as they come up.
Thank you for your patience – we’ve been looking forward to this moment for some time.
Answers to questions. Disclaimer: some features may change by the release, but we're trying to give the best answers we can at the moment to your questions.
- Are there base calibrations?
Yes, for all common part combinations, plus JR and CT superchargers.
- Do I need dyno tuning?
It is not necessary for common part combinations (intake, exhaust), but you still have the option of custom tuning if you wish to get a little more. Camshafts probably will need tuning to get the most of the them - it will depend on the camshaft manufacturer.
- Can I get rid of the AFM?
You can switch to a MAP based calibration (recommened for forced induction and/or cams). You need to still physically retain the AFM because it also contains the IAT sensor.
- CT supercharger Stage 1 owners may choose to upgrade directly to the FlashPro.
If you paid a deposit for a Stage II reflash, you will need to discuss upgrade options with whoever took your deposit as neither CT Engineering or Hondata take deposits.
- Will this work on R18s or automatics?
Initially the FlashPro is for the US/Canada Si and Euro/Asia CTR. ECU part numbers are listed on our website.
- Will this work on more than one vehicle?
The FlashPro is locked to one vehicle. It can be unlocked and transferred to another vehicle by returning the ECU to stock.
- Can I share the calibrations I make for my car?
Yes.
- Do I need the laptop in the vehicle to reflash the ECU?
No. The FlashPro can upload either with or without a laptop.
- Is there a VTEC window?
Yes. This means that VTEC will operate based on rpm and engine load. For example, the supercharger reflashes have a VTEC window from 3200 rpm - 6000 rpm. At full throttle, VTEC operates at 3200 rpm. At light throttle, VTEC operates at 6000 rpm, and for load between full and light the VTEC will shift between 3200 rpm and 6000 rpm. (Engine load (MAP) is actually used to determine the switch point, but I've use throttle to illustrate the example). You can see some of this in a screen shot http://www.hondata.com/images/flashp...n-ignition.gif
Note that a VTEC window is more than just a VTEC point which you can vary by rpm - it has load characteristics too.
- So does that mean 1 unit Hondata flashpro can only work with one ecu or car only? Which mean i can't buy one set flashpro and used it together with a few of my buddies civics?
On ECU and vehicle at a time. You can unlock the FlashPro by returning the ECU to stock, and then transfer to another vehicle.
- Does it have control over DBW?
Yes, but we don't change anything to do with DBW. The first reason is that there is no need to - the DBW control works fairly well as it is. The second reason is for legal liability.
- Any option of immobilizer control?
The immobilizer can not be disabled. We've implemented a number of features designed to protect the owner of the vehicle from theft, and one of these is not to allow the immobilizer to be disabled. This is going to be much less of an issue than previous products because the ECU does not need to be removed / swapped.
- 90 sec programming - does that mean it can't do real time tuning?
Correct. In any case, if you are tuning a vehicle, you need to wait longer than 90 seconds between dyno runs in order to maintain consistency between runs. If you think you could set the dyno up as constant rpm or load, and then tune each cell in each table, this type of tuning does not work because the engine temperature and therefore output changes fairly rapidly, prohibiting this type of tuning.
- If the ECU had been reflashed by another maker, can Flashpro still work?
Probably - we could tell you based off the ECU part & serial numbers plus the calibration ID. When you unlock the FlashPro it will only be reflashed back to a stock calibration.
-Will this support a 64-Bit windows vista?
Not at first. We need to make sure the USB driver is working 100% before handing over the money to Microsoft, because after that every change to the USB driver incurrs a substantial cost to re-certify.
Edit: We have tested with Windows Vista 32 & 64 bit, and Windows 7 RC1 32 & 64 bit - the drivers work. This is a little puzzling as the 64 bit drivers are signed by us, but not certified by WinQual, so we would not expect them to work on Vista 64 and Windows 7 64 bit.
- can it control nitrous?
Not at the moment. However, you can at least control the ignition timing to make nitrous safer.
- Preorders?
Hondata is not taking preorders, but some of our dealers are.
- Will dealers need a software license?
No. Every FlashPro will come with the full tuning software FlashProManager.
- Are there training materials?
Three training videos to the FlashPro page.
- I have X intake, Y header and fluffy things hanging from my mirror. How much power will I make with your system?
I can take 5 stock, same model Hondas and make 5 different power figures on one dyno.
I can take one Honda to 5 different dynos and get 5 different power figures.
There are a huge number of combinations of cam, intake, header and catback. Some parts work and others do not. This system will allow you to tune your airfuel ratio, ignition and cam angle to match your combination of parts and fuel type. We are providing the tuning ability. The power you make is up to your (intelligent) combination of parts and tuning.
- Does it fix the rev hang?
Yes. The rev hang is the result of the injectors continuing to provide fuel for a period of time after the throttle is closed. This time is reduced by the calibrations provided with the FlashPro and the revs drop much sooner after throttle liftoff.
- Can it eliminate the second o2 sensor?
Yes. The secondary oxygen sensor is used to monitor the catalytic converter efficiency and assist with closed loop operation. For off road racing use in which a catalytic converter is not desirable, the secondary oxygen sensor can be disabled using the FlashProManager software without any negative affect on the tuning or operation of the car.
- What about smog with a MAP calibration?
According to US and CA law the FlashPro is for off road use only. However, if you did smog you would find the readiness codes supported and complete.
The FlashPro allows you to custom tune your Civic Si for aftermarket performance products, including forced induction. Additionally you can datalog, graph & analyze your engine parameters.
Out of the box features which you will like is the ability to run any sized injector, switch to a speed/density (MAP) based calibration to bypass any air flow meter problems from forced induction and big cams, and use a VTEC window. There also are the usual table editing and parameters such are cam angle, ignition, fuel, closed loop etc.
The price is $695, including tuning/datalogging software, and the expected release date is in June. June this year, if you’re in doubt.
For more information see FlashPro
We will update the above page with answers to your questions as they come up.
Thank you for your patience – we’ve been looking forward to this moment for some time.
Answers to questions. Disclaimer: some features may change by the release, but we're trying to give the best answers we can at the moment to your questions.
- Are there base calibrations?
Yes, for all common part combinations, plus JR and CT superchargers.
- Do I need dyno tuning?
It is not necessary for common part combinations (intake, exhaust), but you still have the option of custom tuning if you wish to get a little more. Camshafts probably will need tuning to get the most of the them - it will depend on the camshaft manufacturer.
- Can I get rid of the AFM?
You can switch to a MAP based calibration (recommened for forced induction and/or cams). You need to still physically retain the AFM because it also contains the IAT sensor.
- CT supercharger Stage 1 owners may choose to upgrade directly to the FlashPro.
If you paid a deposit for a Stage II reflash, you will need to discuss upgrade options with whoever took your deposit as neither CT Engineering or Hondata take deposits.
- Will this work on R18s or automatics?
Initially the FlashPro is for the US/Canada Si and Euro/Asia CTR. ECU part numbers are listed on our website.
- Will this work on more than one vehicle?
The FlashPro is locked to one vehicle. It can be unlocked and transferred to another vehicle by returning the ECU to stock.
- Can I share the calibrations I make for my car?
Yes.
- Do I need the laptop in the vehicle to reflash the ECU?
No. The FlashPro can upload either with or without a laptop.
- Is there a VTEC window?
Yes. This means that VTEC will operate based on rpm and engine load. For example, the supercharger reflashes have a VTEC window from 3200 rpm - 6000 rpm. At full throttle, VTEC operates at 3200 rpm. At light throttle, VTEC operates at 6000 rpm, and for load between full and light the VTEC will shift between 3200 rpm and 6000 rpm. (Engine load (MAP) is actually used to determine the switch point, but I've use throttle to illustrate the example). You can see some of this in a screen shot http://www.hondata.com/images/flashp...n-ignition.gif
Note that a VTEC window is more than just a VTEC point which you can vary by rpm - it has load characteristics too.
- So does that mean 1 unit Hondata flashpro can only work with one ecu or car only? Which mean i can't buy one set flashpro and used it together with a few of my buddies civics?
On ECU and vehicle at a time. You can unlock the FlashPro by returning the ECU to stock, and then transfer to another vehicle.
- Does it have control over DBW?
Yes, but we don't change anything to do with DBW. The first reason is that there is no need to - the DBW control works fairly well as it is. The second reason is for legal liability.
- Any option of immobilizer control?
The immobilizer can not be disabled. We've implemented a number of features designed to protect the owner of the vehicle from theft, and one of these is not to allow the immobilizer to be disabled. This is going to be much less of an issue than previous products because the ECU does not need to be removed / swapped.
- 90 sec programming - does that mean it can't do real time tuning?
Correct. In any case, if you are tuning a vehicle, you need to wait longer than 90 seconds between dyno runs in order to maintain consistency between runs. If you think you could set the dyno up as constant rpm or load, and then tune each cell in each table, this type of tuning does not work because the engine temperature and therefore output changes fairly rapidly, prohibiting this type of tuning.
- If the ECU had been reflashed by another maker, can Flashpro still work?
Probably - we could tell you based off the ECU part & serial numbers plus the calibration ID. When you unlock the FlashPro it will only be reflashed back to a stock calibration.
-Will this support a 64-Bit windows vista?
Not at first. We need to make sure the USB driver is working 100% before handing over the money to Microsoft, because after that every change to the USB driver incurrs a substantial cost to re-certify.
Edit: We have tested with Windows Vista 32 & 64 bit, and Windows 7 RC1 32 & 64 bit - the drivers work. This is a little puzzling as the 64 bit drivers are signed by us, but not certified by WinQual, so we would not expect them to work on Vista 64 and Windows 7 64 bit.
- can it control nitrous?
Not at the moment. However, you can at least control the ignition timing to make nitrous safer.
- Preorders?
Hondata is not taking preorders, but some of our dealers are.
- Will dealers need a software license?
No. Every FlashPro will come with the full tuning software FlashProManager.
- Are there training materials?
Three training videos to the FlashPro page.
- I have X intake, Y header and fluffy things hanging from my mirror. How much power will I make with your system?
I can take 5 stock, same model Hondas and make 5 different power figures on one dyno.
I can take one Honda to 5 different dynos and get 5 different power figures.
There are a huge number of combinations of cam, intake, header and catback. Some parts work and others do not. This system will allow you to tune your airfuel ratio, ignition and cam angle to match your combination of parts and fuel type. We are providing the tuning ability. The power you make is up to your (intelligent) combination of parts and tuning.
- Does it fix the rev hang?
Yes. The rev hang is the result of the injectors continuing to provide fuel for a period of time after the throttle is closed. This time is reduced by the calibrations provided with the FlashPro and the revs drop much sooner after throttle liftoff.
- Can it eliminate the second o2 sensor?
Yes. The secondary oxygen sensor is used to monitor the catalytic converter efficiency and assist with closed loop operation. For off road racing use in which a catalytic converter is not desirable, the secondary oxygen sensor can be disabled using the FlashProManager software without any negative affect on the tuning or operation of the car.
- What about smog with a MAP calibration?
According to US and CA law the FlashPro is for off road use only. However, if you did smog you would find the readiness codes supported and complete.
1081 - 1100 of 2042 Posts
you could probably drastically reduce your dyno time if not hit the nail square on the head...The AJP tune would be great to start with. I don't really care what tune it is as long as it's a starting point. 3 days on the dyno is going to be SUPER expensive. But if it has to be then it has to be. I still want to know if you could use a kpro turbo map and just copy the fuel and ignition tables over and the cam angle settings. The motors are so similar.
I'm not looking to hit the nail on the head but just reduce my dyno time to a few hours to maybe a full day. Though it would be nice. I can not swing 2-3 days with my tuner. He's way too expensive. $200.00 an hour. But he's darn good.
a good hondata tunner should be able to fully tune your car in 2-3 hours.
a good hondata tunner should be able to fully tune your car in 2-3 hours.
:yeahthat:
but if they have to start a brand new map from scratch its going to take some time.....most hondata tuners use one of the basemaps on the KManager, this might not have a turbo map to use as a starting point:yeahthat: x2 All depends on the tuner.
does anyone know or think or speculate lol that if you go for a tune, you can tune it back to stock to get warranty work done on the car or will it leave a footprint???im a noob i know lol
Considering you can flash it back to stock, I wouldn't think it would leave a footprint.does anyone know or think or speculate lol that if you go for a tune, you can tune it back to stock to get warranty work done on the car or will it leave a footprint???im a noob i know lol
I can't wait to pick this up. I won't be nearly as worried about taking my car in to get it worked on when I can flash a 3500rpm revlimit onto it before handing them the keys. :dancing:
I remember a kid on the site mis-shifted and blew his motor... they were able to go and look and saw that he had over rev'd the motor (the exact RPM) but this means they could also see if you increased your rev limiter.Considering you can flash it back to stock, I wouldn't think it would leave a footprint.
I can't wait to pick this up. I won't be nearly as worried about taking my car in to get it worked on when I can flash a 3500rpm revlimit onto it before handing them the keys. :dancing:
This is true if you leave your custom flash in there. But if you flash it back to stock it will more than likely reset all that stored memory. At least that is my guess. Because you're overwriting the entire chip with all new info.I remember a kid on the site mis-shifted and blew his motor... they were able to go and look and saw that he had over rev'd the motor (the exact RPM) but this means they could also see if you increased your rev limiter.
but back to the base map situation. If there is no turbo base map it will NOT take 2-3 hours to tune this ECU. You will need to build the entire map from scratch. You will have to add fuel and pull timing on all 5 cam angle maps and do some dyno runs on each and log. Then change everything and log again. Now remember there are 5 tables you will have to do this with. Then once you get the AFR right and the timing right you have to find the optimum cam angles for your setup. Thsi will take at least 2 days to get it right. This includes the dyno time and street time to get all the drivability perfect.
If you keep the programming in there absolutely. They'll be able to see it like you'd be able to see it with Flashpro. Now Flashpro will be able to clear codes, but a code like that may not be one that can be cleared. It's never been confirmed either way. That's a pretty major code to trip after all.I remember a kid on the site mis-shifted and blew his motor... they were able to go and look and saw that he had over rev'd the motor (the exact RPM) but this means they could also see if you increased your rev limiter.
Could you copy a k20a2 turbo kpro tune into flashpro as a base map??????This is true if you leave your custom flash in there. But if you flash it back to stock it will more than likely reset all that stored memory. At least that is my guess. Because you're overwriting the entire chip with all new info.
but back to the base map situation. If there is no turbo base map it will NOT take 2-3 hours to tune this ECU. You will need to build the entire map from scratch. You will have to add fuel and pull timing on all 5 cam angle maps and do some dyno runs on each and log. Then change everything and log again. Now remember there are 5 tables you will have to do this with. Then once you get the AFR right and the timing right you have to find the optimum cam angles for your setup. Thsi will take at least 2 days to get it right. This includes the dyno time and street time to get all the drivability perfect.
As long as the setup is similar. I'm planning on giving that a shot of there is no turbo base map at launch. I've been messing around with the kmanager software quite a bit and I am pretty familiar with the layout and stuff. Once I see the actual FlashPro software and see what tables are similar I'm pretty sure you can copy most of it but you will have to adjust some of the values depending on how the tables for the cam angles are exactly set up. It SHOULD work. And I emphasize should because I can't say for sure that it will. Although I really hope it does.Could you copy a k20a2 turbo kpro tune into flashpro as a base map??????
P0219 - Engine Overspeed, which should be clearable. From my understanding, it's only recorded when the car actually, at that time, hits RPMs past the limiter (probably past or close to 9K). Other codes can reappear because the condition is met again, but I don't think this code will reappear unless you do it again.If you keep the programming in there absolutely. They'll be able to see it like you'd be able to see it with Flashpro. Now Flashpro will be able to clear codes, but a code like that may not be one that can be cleared. It's never been confirmed either way. That's a pretty major code to trip after all.
However, I am not a mechanic, so I may be wrong about this.
for me the main concern is being able to tune out those emission sensors. I have to pass the obd scan here in Chicago which made my last Si a nightmare. I was running obd1 ecu with s200. I had to swap to stock injectors, stock ecu, try to make the car run ok, then I would always get codes popping up. It was a constant pain. Thats why I just sold it and bought my current Si. If I put a race header I want to be able to tune out the rear 02
I have the exact same problem here in Boston. OBDII scanner only. If I don't have all readiness codes set as completed and no CEL I fail. I know kpro has the ability to disable all those sensors and still pass inspection here in MA by activating readiness codes right before inspection.for me the main concern is being able to tune out those emission sensors. I have to pass the obd scan here in Chicago which made my last Si a nightmare. I was running obd1 ecu with s200. I had to swap to stock injectors, stock ecu, try to make the car run ok, then I would always get codes popping up. It was a constant pain. Thats why I just sold it and bought my current Si. If I put a race header I want to be able to tune out the rear 02
I have another question for Hondata. After flashing in your calibration, will you have to do the crank position learn procedure and the idle learn procedure or will this still be in the ECU's memory? Because if you do a hard reset of teh ECU youa re supposed to perform these procedures for proper operation of the ECU.
Same boat for me.This is something I like. I don't plan on going nuts with my car, but to be able to start with a base map, lower the vtec point, "fix" the rev hang issue, and from there, get a really good dyno tune, I'd be happy. (ok..maybe cams and some head work....bring the redline up a bit). .....then I'll be happy......maybe...
I think it's fantastic that we have this available to us finally so we can really take advantage of what this car is and what it can really do!!
Question I have for Hondata is this...
Is there a difference as far as the engine ECU is concerned between throttle response in these two situations...?
1. Zero speed. Clutch fully engaged (all the way out). Gear selector in neutral.
1. Zero speed. Clutch fully disengaged (all the way in). Gear selector in 1st.
I swear there is a difference. In the first scenario my car seems to rev just dandy. In the second the car is very reluctant to rev. I could understand why they would put such a limitation to help prevent n00bs from killing their clutch but I don't even launch my car and I find it extremely obnoxious and I fear whatever in the ECU is making it do this also might be affecting my rev matching and what not. I'd prefer these types of "the car knows better than you" features to be turned off.
Hondata, you have any insight on this? If the ECU does do something like I am describing (or am I crazy?) and if so can it be disabled?
sorry to take a small detour in this thread
but what is the crank position learn procedure again? I remember the idle learn is letting it idle for like 10 mins so the ECU can learn
but what is the crank position learn procedure again? I remember the idle learn is letting it idle for like 10 mins so the ECU can learn
Agreed. I get the same feeling all the time when working with computers sometimes, namely Windows.Same boat for me.
Question I have for Hondata is this...
Is there a difference as far as the engine ECU is concerned between throttle response in these two situations...?
1. Zero speed. Clutch fully engaged (all the way out). Gear selector in neutral.
1. Zero speed. Clutch fully disengaged (all the way in). Gear selector in 1st.
I swear there is a difference. In the first scenario my car seems to rev just dandy. In the second the car is very reluctant to rev. I could understand why they would put such a limitation to help prevent n00bs from killing their clutch but I don't even launch my car and I find it extremely obnoxious and I fear whatever in the ECU is making it do this also might be affecting my rev matching and what not. I'd prefer these types of "the car knows better than you" features to be turned off.
Hondata, you have any insight on this? If the ECU does do something like I am describing (or am I crazy?) and if so can it be disabled?
I have been noticing similar with clutch-out in neutral vs clutch-in in first. I can't put my finger on it, but there is a difference.
with that rev situation with 1st and neutral it might be a transmission issue (maybe not the best word but involving the transmission and physics) and not an ecu thing unless it is really noticable
1081 - 1100 of 2042 Posts
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