8th Generation Honda Civic Forum banner
Cancel

Hondata announces the FlashPro

207917 Views 2041 Replies 360 Participants Last post by  Gabo, 
H
Hondata is pleased to announce a new tuning product - the FlashPro. Initially this will available for the Civic Si and Civic Type R.

The FlashPro allows you to custom tune your Civic Si for aftermarket performance products, including forced induction. Additionally you can datalog, graph & analyze your engine parameters.

Out of the box features which you will like is the ability to run any sized injector, switch to a speed/density (MAP) based calibration to bypass any air flow meter problems from forced induction and big cams, and use a VTEC window. There also are the usual table editing and parameters such are cam angle, ignition, fuel, closed loop etc.

The price is $695, including tuning/datalogging software, and the expected release date is in June. June this year, if you’re in doubt.

For more information see FlashPro

We will update the above page with answers to your questions as they come up.

Thank you for your patience – we’ve been looking forward to this moment for some time.

Answers to questions. Disclaimer: some features may change by the release, but we're trying to give the best answers we can at the moment to your questions.

- Are there base calibrations?
Yes, for all common part combinations, plus JR and CT superchargers.

- Do I need dyno tuning?
It is not necessary for common part combinations (intake, exhaust), but you still have the option of custom tuning if you wish to get a little more. Camshafts probably will need tuning to get the most of the them - it will depend on the camshaft manufacturer.

- Can I get rid of the AFM?
You can switch to a MAP based calibration (recommened for forced induction and/or cams). You need to still physically retain the AFM because it also contains the IAT sensor.

- CT supercharger Stage 1 owners may choose to upgrade directly to the FlashPro.
If you paid a deposit for a Stage II reflash, you will need to discuss upgrade options with whoever took your deposit as neither CT Engineering or Hondata take deposits.

- Will this work on R18s or automatics?
Initially the FlashPro is for the US/Canada Si and Euro/Asia CTR. ECU part numbers are listed on our website.

- Will this work on more than one vehicle?
The FlashPro is locked to one vehicle. It can be unlocked and transferred to another vehicle by returning the ECU to stock.

- Can I share the calibrations I make for my car?
Yes.

- Do I need the laptop in the vehicle to reflash the ECU?
No. The FlashPro can upload either with or without a laptop.

- Is there a VTEC window?
Yes. This means that VTEC will operate based on rpm and engine load. For example, the supercharger reflashes have a VTEC window from 3200 rpm - 6000 rpm. At full throttle, VTEC operates at 3200 rpm. At light throttle, VTEC operates at 6000 rpm, and for load between full and light the VTEC will shift between 3200 rpm and 6000 rpm. (Engine load (MAP) is actually used to determine the switch point, but I've use throttle to illustrate the example). You can see some of this in a screen shot http://www.hondata.com/images/flashp...n-ignition.gif
Note that a VTEC window is more than just a VTEC point which you can vary by rpm - it has load characteristics too.

- So does that mean 1 unit Hondata flashpro can only work with one ecu or car only? Which mean i can't buy one set flashpro and used it together with a few of my buddies civics?
On ECU and vehicle at a time. You can unlock the FlashPro by returning the ECU to stock, and then transfer to another vehicle.

- Does it have control over DBW?
Yes, but we don't change anything to do with DBW. The first reason is that there is no need to - the DBW control works fairly well as it is. The second reason is for legal liability.

- Any option of immobilizer control?
The immobilizer can not be disabled. We've implemented a number of features designed to protect the owner of the vehicle from theft, and one of these is not to allow the immobilizer to be disabled. This is going to be much less of an issue than previous products because the ECU does not need to be removed / swapped.

- 90 sec programming - does that mean it can't do real time tuning?
Correct. In any case, if you are tuning a vehicle, you need to wait longer than 90 seconds between dyno runs in order to maintain consistency between runs. If you think you could set the dyno up as constant rpm or load, and then tune each cell in each table, this type of tuning does not work because the engine temperature and therefore output changes fairly rapidly, prohibiting this type of tuning.

- If the ECU had been reflashed by another maker, can Flashpro still work?
Probably - we could tell you based off the ECU part & serial numbers plus the calibration ID. When you unlock the FlashPro it will only be reflashed back to a stock calibration.

-Will this support a 64-Bit windows vista?
Not at first. We need to make sure the USB driver is working 100% before handing over the money to Microsoft, because after that every change to the USB driver incurrs a substantial cost to re-certify.
Edit: We have tested with Windows Vista 32 & 64 bit, and Windows 7 RC1 32 & 64 bit - the drivers work. This is a little puzzling as the 64 bit drivers are signed by us, but not certified by WinQual, so we would not expect them to work on Vista 64 and Windows 7 64 bit.

- can it control nitrous?
Not at the moment. However, you can at least control the ignition timing to make nitrous safer.

- Preorders?
Hondata is not taking preorders, but some of our dealers are.

- Will dealers need a software license?
No. Every FlashPro will come with the full tuning software FlashProManager.

- Are there training materials?
Three training videos to the FlashPro page.

- I have X intake, Y header and fluffy things hanging from my mirror. How much power will I make with your system?
I can take 5 stock, same model Hondas and make 5 different power figures on one dyno.
I can take one Honda to 5 different dynos and get 5 different power figures.
There are a huge number of combinations of cam, intake, header and catback. Some parts work and others do not. This system will allow you to tune your airfuel ratio, ignition and cam angle to match your combination of parts and fuel type. We are providing the tuning ability. The power you make is up to your (intelligent) combination of parts and tuning.

- Does it fix the rev hang?
Yes. The rev hang is the result of the injectors continuing to provide fuel for a period of time after the throttle is closed. This time is reduced by the calibrations provided with the FlashPro and the revs drop much sooner after throttle liftoff.

- Can it eliminate the second o2 sensor?
Yes. The secondary oxygen sensor is used to monitor the catalytic converter efficiency and assist with closed loop operation. For off road racing use in which a catalytic converter is not desirable, the secondary oxygen sensor can be disabled using the FlashProManager software without any negative affect on the tuning or operation of the car.

- What about smog with a MAP calibration?
According to US and CA law the FlashPro is for off road use only. However, if you did smog you would find the readiness codes supported and complete.
See less See more
Reply
Save
Like
61 - 80 of 2042 Posts
H
The CT calibation was made for the modified stock injectors. Changing the injector size to 650 will do 90% of the work in switching injectors - you then just need to check the AF at different load levels is ok.

We prefer 650cc injectors because 440cc injectors are too small anything but the lowest boost levels and 550cc injectors do not have a very good spray pattern. Modified stock injectors are ok but the spray pattern and injector to injector consistancy are not quite as good as the 650s.
Reply
Save
Like
H
The flow rate is set by the screen. A number of small holes of precise diameter. Remove that and your precision is gone. What might have been 1% flow consistancy before becomes worse. Bottom line flow test them.
Reply
Save
Like
H
Ainokea_Si:
It is a lot more complicated than the MAP having a lower voltage - the MAP sensor is one of the most important engine sensors and a different sensor, even with the same pressure range, will not run correctly. How much boost are you making?

Dynapak:
A dyno is a tuning tool. To be effective it needs to be accurate, consistent, repeatable and sensistive. A dynapak is better than a dynojet is all those aspects because it is measuring torque from a load cell and lever arm. A dynojet is measuring the acceleration of a known mass, and so smooths out many of the dips and peaks which are of interest while tuning. A dynojet does not have the same resolution either. You also eliminate effects of wheels, tires, wheel alignment, etc, and can load the dynapak to different run lengths.
Reply
Save
Like
H
28 psi sounds fairly exciting. You'll have to wait a little longer to find out about the MAP sensors (sorry!)
Reply
Save
Like
H
See the very first post about Windows 7.

Our software works on XP 64, Vista 64 & Windows 7 64 bit. Our USB drivers also work on those OS. Our USB drivers are signed by us and have a digital certificate. The issue is that our USB drivers are not counter signed by Windows hardware labs (WinQual), so 64 bit versions of Windows will not load them by default.

Currently the drivers load ok with Windows 7 RC1 64 bit. They should not, so Microsoft may or may not change this behaviour in the future.

At some point in the future we'll go through the signing process and get them counter-signed. It just does not seem a good idea at the moment because every minor change to the drivers then requires re-submission to Microsoft for counter-signing. WinQual submissions are not much fun. The instructions are not very clear and some of the software tools downloaded by default are out of date. There is no way of verifying if a submission will work without submitting it, but you still get charged the full cost of submission ($750-$1000), even if the submission fails. If a submission fails, the failure messages are not clear enough to work out what the problem is. It is like gambling except you don't win any money back.
See less See more
Reply
Save
Like
H
As yet I do not believe that we will do a calibration for the AJP turbo. You might try contacting AJP and see if they plan on releasing a calibration once the FlashPro is released.

Ainokea_Si said:
torrent windows 7 64
Click to expand...
Windows 7 RC1 is a free download from Microsoft and lasts a year or so.
Reply
Save
Like
H
lessthanwise said:
also, about the AFR limitations of gasoline
Click to expand...
Please phrase your question in the form of a question.
Reply
Save
Like
H
- 64 bit F8 boot option for 'Disable Driver Signature Enforcement'
Yes, you have to do this every time you boot.

- You've stated that the air/fuel limitations of gasoline ignition occur around 20-25:1. The i-VTEC I engine is known to have run air fuel ratios as high as 64:1 thanks to its super trick NOx eliminating EGR system. How is this possible?
The direct injection creates a rich area (often the piston has a dish) where the burn starts, then the flame front spreads through the rest of the (lean) mixture. The video from Honda explains it.

- valet mode
Take your regular calibration, set the rev limit to 4000 rpm, and save it to the secondary position on FlashPro. To upload the valet calibration, hold the datalog button then press the program button. To upload the normal calibration, press the program button.

- anti-theft mode
You could zero out the fuel tables, but I do not think there is any benefit over the stock immobilizer. To disable the stock immobilizer, pretty much the only option is to replace the ECU. At this point the fuel tables don't matter.

- How come the Fujita Sri has been having problems
It messes up the AFM signal. It works fine using a MAP based calibration. I don't think people realize how important the AFM signal is. On the dyno on Sunday with different intakes we saw AF ratios from 9.5:1 to 15.4:1 at WOT using the stock ECU - this was all from the AFM signal not showing the true air flow.
See less See more
Reply
Save
Like
H
lessthanwise said:
What would it take to get the real time datalog gauge display to appear (properly formatted so as to be easy to read) on your dash navi?
Click to expand...
More work than it is worth. The Navi does not connect to the ECU CAN bus, plus you'd have to then reverse engineer the Navi software to run custom apps, then write the application. It would be easier to replace the Navi with a Car PC and then just run FlashProManager with a custom display template.
Reply
Save
Like
H
- nitrous control
We'll add this eventually, as long as you promise not to bug us by repeatedly asking when it will be ready.

- is your map sensor the only one that would be supported by the software?
Yes.

- what were the technical difficulties that you were running into?
Pass. Can't remember mentioning any.

- two calibrations high boost and low boost
You don't need two calibrations for low and high boost - the tables will take care of that. The only reason to use two calibrations would be if one was pump and the other race fuel.
Reply
Save
Like
H
- Anti-theft / immobilizer
Interesting information. I'm not sure if you can made a new key without requiring the vehicle in order to reprogram the immobilizer.

- Smog & secondary o2
You don't need to go back to stock, and you won't have a problem as long as you have a cat and working primary o2.
Reply
Save
Like
H
- Software
Yes, you can download to a flash drive. The software is about 13 mb.

- DBW
We've found that most of the lag is the injector shut off delay, and closed loop jacking the short term fuel trim very high. Just loading and using a calibration takes care of most of the lag without any additional tuning, as it reduces the shut off delay.

- o2 sensor
I would not replace the sensor unless it starts to read incorrectly. With the RSX there is a correlation to vibration (from an header without a flexible coupling) and the o2 dying.
We have noticed that under full load the primary o2 reads richer with increased exhaust temperature - at least with forced induction and higher EGTs. I'm in the process of adding a WBO2 next to the primary o2 to see exactly how accurate it is. Part throttle readings look ok.
Reply
Save
Like
H
soxfan143 said:
Hondata, is there any news on the GReddy base calibration? Just curious if you have any final numbers or if you ran into any weird issues. And how will the map be set up? Will it come as a MAP based tune and will the secondary O2 be disabled? What psi did you decide to run? Are you using the 4bar with the calibration? What injector size did you decide to go with? Did you end up sticking with the RC 650s?
Click to expand...
Graphs will be posted next week. The car is running very well. It spools much faster and makes 15-25 HP more on the highcam for no change in boost level.

There will be two MAP based calibrations. One for the supplied 370cc injectors and one for 650 cc injectors. The Si was supplied with the turbo running off the wastegate spring (and no boost controller) which meant about 7 psi peak at 3300 rpm and about 3.5 psi at redline. There is mapping for higher boost pressure but it has not been tested. For anything other than running the turbo boost pressure off the wastegate spring, you will need 650cc injectors.

No weird issues. The car is running very well.

There was no need to use the 4 bar sensor. If you have an efficient turbo setup you will be able to make 100-150 HP over stock with the stock map sensor and about 10 psi of boost. This is pushing the stock returnless fuel system though.

By the time you need a 4 bar you will have upgraded to a return line fuel system and better fuel pump.

As far as the oxygen sensor is concerned the Greddy Si had a catalytic converter. The decision on the secondary oxygen sensor is up to you. It is after all a programmable system.
See less See more
Reply
Save
Like
H
There are a few minor changes in the FlashPro CT supercharger calibration. We started with the reflash we had released and tweaked it a little for a little better driveability. The FlashPro CT charger calibration also has 5 degrees more cam advance for a little more midrange torque.
Reply
Save
Like
H
nbilyue said:
The more I read about this the more pissed I am that I have a broken stage 2 reflash instead of the flash pro.
Click to expand...
Hondata :: View topic - CT Stage 2 Reflash Customers Prior to June 1st 2009
Reply
Save
Like
H
A word of warning with remote tuning on the Civic Si - the built in o2 reads rich under high load. It seems to be heat related and gets worse over the course of a dyno run. At 8-9 lbs boost my car read 11:1 AF from the internal sensor and 12:1 from the dyno wideband. Part thottle AF measurement seems ok.
Reply
Save
Like
H
It is hidden under the Options menu: Show boost columns.

Edit: I think you've found that option. What you'll need to do is to edit the column index. You'll need to do this for both the VTC tables and fuel tables (ignition and fuel tables share the same load indexes). If you load the 4bar calibration you'll see what we did to map to 40 psi.
Reply
Save
Like
H
teflonbless: As Go-Power said, if you switch from MAP back to AFM the maintenance reminder triggers. The -2 is the mileage. There's nothing wrong with the car - just reset the reminder (we are in the process of add this to the documentation).
Reply
Save
Like
H
EntropyXIII said:
ok...i have to ask even though i will probably get flamed for not reading and blah blah blah but does fp raise the 135 speed limiter like cobb?
Click to expand...
The speed limiter in the Hondata reflash was removed last year. With FlashPro Manager you can set the speed limiter to any value you like.

Download the software and try it for yourself.

http://hondata.com/updates/index.php?app=FlashProManager&action=download
Reply
Save
Like
H
All of the larger injector maps have been tuned to start and run well on a stock Civic Si. There are boost fuel and ignition maps for all of them but they are untuned. They are intended to be starting points for forced induction tuning.

For a highly tuned NA car, we recommend Acura RDX 410 cc injectors. They have an excellent spray pattern and great atomization.

The supercharged K24 map is just that. A tune for a supercharged K24 Civic Si that made around 350hp.
Reply
Save
Like
61 - 80 of 2042 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
8th Generation Honda Civic Forum
We’re a community for 8th Gen 2006 - 2011 Civic owners to discuss performance mods, body kits, Si models, turbo kits and accessories. Come Join the club!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
Introduction & Pictures Garage Mechanical Problems & Technical Chat Inside and Out Florida
Top