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Hondata announces the FlashPro

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Hondata is pleased to announce a new tuning product - the FlashPro. Initially this will available for the Civic Si and Civic Type R.

The FlashPro allows you to custom tune your Civic Si for aftermarket performance products, including forced induction. Additionally you can datalog, graph & analyze your engine parameters.

Out of the box features which you will like is the ability to run any sized injector, switch to a speed/density (MAP) based calibration to bypass any air flow meter problems from forced induction and big cams, and use a VTEC window. There also are the usual table editing and parameters such are cam angle, ignition, fuel, closed loop etc.

The price is $695, including tuning/datalogging software, and the expected release date is in June. June this year, if you’re in doubt.

For more information see FlashPro

We will update the above page with answers to your questions as they come up.

Thank you for your patience – we’ve been looking forward to this moment for some time.

Answers to questions. Disclaimer: some features may change by the release, but we're trying to give the best answers we can at the moment to your questions.

- Are there base calibrations?
Yes, for all common part combinations, plus JR and CT superchargers.

- Do I need dyno tuning?
It is not necessary for common part combinations (intake, exhaust), but you still have the option of custom tuning if you wish to get a little more. Camshafts probably will need tuning to get the most of the them - it will depend on the camshaft manufacturer.

- Can I get rid of the AFM?
You can switch to a MAP based calibration (recommened for forced induction and/or cams). You need to still physically retain the AFM because it also contains the IAT sensor.

- CT supercharger Stage 1 owners may choose to upgrade directly to the FlashPro.
If you paid a deposit for a Stage II reflash, you will need to discuss upgrade options with whoever took your deposit as neither CT Engineering or Hondata take deposits.

- Will this work on R18s or automatics?
Initially the FlashPro is for the US/Canada Si and Euro/Asia CTR. ECU part numbers are listed on our website.

- Will this work on more than one vehicle?
The FlashPro is locked to one vehicle. It can be unlocked and transferred to another vehicle by returning the ECU to stock.

- Can I share the calibrations I make for my car?
Yes.

- Do I need the laptop in the vehicle to reflash the ECU?
No. The FlashPro can upload either with or without a laptop.

- Is there a VTEC window?
Yes. This means that VTEC will operate based on rpm and engine load. For example, the supercharger reflashes have a VTEC window from 3200 rpm - 6000 rpm. At full throttle, VTEC operates at 3200 rpm. At light throttle, VTEC operates at 6000 rpm, and for load between full and light the VTEC will shift between 3200 rpm and 6000 rpm. (Engine load (MAP) is actually used to determine the switch point, but I've use throttle to illustrate the example). You can see some of this in a screen shot http://www.hondata.com/images/flashp...n-ignition.gif
Note that a VTEC window is more than just a VTEC point which you can vary by rpm - it has load characteristics too.

- So does that mean 1 unit Hondata flashpro can only work with one ecu or car only? Which mean i can't buy one set flashpro and used it together with a few of my buddies civics?
On ECU and vehicle at a time. You can unlock the FlashPro by returning the ECU to stock, and then transfer to another vehicle.

- Does it have control over DBW?
Yes, but we don't change anything to do with DBW. The first reason is that there is no need to - the DBW control works fairly well as it is. The second reason is for legal liability.

- Any option of immobilizer control?
The immobilizer can not be disabled. We've implemented a number of features designed to protect the owner of the vehicle from theft, and one of these is not to allow the immobilizer to be disabled. This is going to be much less of an issue than previous products because the ECU does not need to be removed / swapped.

- 90 sec programming - does that mean it can't do real time tuning?
Correct. In any case, if you are tuning a vehicle, you need to wait longer than 90 seconds between dyno runs in order to maintain consistency between runs. If you think you could set the dyno up as constant rpm or load, and then tune each cell in each table, this type of tuning does not work because the engine temperature and therefore output changes fairly rapidly, prohibiting this type of tuning.

- If the ECU had been reflashed by another maker, can Flashpro still work?
Probably - we could tell you based off the ECU part & serial numbers plus the calibration ID. When you unlock the FlashPro it will only be reflashed back to a stock calibration.

-Will this support a 64-Bit windows vista?
Not at first. We need to make sure the USB driver is working 100% before handing over the money to Microsoft, because after that every change to the USB driver incurrs a substantial cost to re-certify.
Edit: We have tested with Windows Vista 32 & 64 bit, and Windows 7 RC1 32 & 64 bit - the drivers work. This is a little puzzling as the 64 bit drivers are signed by us, but not certified by WinQual, so we would not expect them to work on Vista 64 and Windows 7 64 bit.

- can it control nitrous?
Not at the moment. However, you can at least control the ignition timing to make nitrous safer.

- Preorders?
Hondata is not taking preorders, but some of our dealers are.

- Will dealers need a software license?
No. Every FlashPro will come with the full tuning software FlashProManager.

- Are there training materials?
Three training videos to the FlashPro page.

- I have X intake, Y header and fluffy things hanging from my mirror. How much power will I make with your system?
I can take 5 stock, same model Hondas and make 5 different power figures on one dyno.
I can take one Honda to 5 different dynos and get 5 different power figures.
There are a huge number of combinations of cam, intake, header and catback. Some parts work and others do not. This system will allow you to tune your airfuel ratio, ignition and cam angle to match your combination of parts and fuel type. We are providing the tuning ability. The power you make is up to your (intelligent) combination of parts and tuning.

- Does it fix the rev hang?
Yes. The rev hang is the result of the injectors continuing to provide fuel for a period of time after the throttle is closed. This time is reduced by the calibrations provided with the FlashPro and the revs drop much sooner after throttle liftoff.

- Can it eliminate the second o2 sensor?
Yes. The secondary oxygen sensor is used to monitor the catalytic converter efficiency and assist with closed loop operation. For off road racing use in which a catalytic converter is not desirable, the secondary oxygen sensor can be disabled using the FlashProManager software without any negative affect on the tuning or operation of the car.

- What about smog with a MAP calibration?
According to US and CA law the FlashPro is for off road use only. However, if you did smog you would find the readiness codes supported and complete.
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9 lbs of boost.
The boost pressure is less on the K24 but the same amount of air is moved. Thus you run a larger crank pulley to speed up the blower.
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Read the very first post - most questions have been answered.

There are basemaps. You don't need to dyno if you only have common aftermarket parts.

You don't need a laptop. You can program from a desktop and then upload in the vehicle as two steps.

Don't obsess about getting rid of the MAF if using the MAP based calibrations. Otherwise you'll just have a hole in your intake which needs plugging anyhow.

The rev hang can be eliminated.

Tuners don't need a license or anything special - just the FlashPro from the vehicle being tuned.
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- Can I get rid of the check engine light from a race header?
Yes, you can disable the secondary o2 sensor.

- Can I use a 4 bar MAP sensor?
Initially only the stock 1.7 bar MAP sensor is supported.

- Is rev hang an on/off switch?
No, there are tables which you can change.

- Will the current reflash be available as a calibration?
More or less, yes. The current reflash works with stock and aftermaket intakes; the FlashPro has calibrations for each.

- Does it have a basemap that lets you put it back to stock?
Yes, a 'return to stock' calibration. This is exactly the same as what a dealer would flash the ECU with.

- The binary does not spell Hondata.
It is in EBCDIC, not ASCII.
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postpresent said:
can you please clarify:
"Race vehicle sensor disabling". very interested if this includes TPMS!!
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TPMS is not controlled from the ECU.
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Read the very first post. Custom tuning is not required for common bolt ons.

TPMS is controlled by the TPMS module & VSA - nothing to do with the ECU.

The software will be released at the same time as the FlashPro. Any tuner who has used the KPro or S300 will be up to speed with the software in 10 minutes.
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DatBigDude said:
As with your previous tuning options offered for other vehicles, i assume there will be periodic updates and features added. For those who purchase this unit immediatly how would they go about updating the new software? is it something we will be able to do online connecting the Flashpro to the computer? Will it have to be sent back to Hondata? will there be any fees after the intial purchase for any updates or added features? Thanks in advanced.
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Yes, software updates will be available, either from our website or from within FlashProManager. Like our other software, updates and new features are
free.
The FlashPro firmware will be updated from time to time from FlashProManager. It will not need to be sent to Hondata - it is a fairly painless process.
If we make changes to calibrations then you'll need to reload them and upload to the your ECU.
I probably will be best to wait until the first few videos are out as they will show the setup process in better detail that I can explain.
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Bboy_Burst said:
Hondata: I know you recommend switching to the MAP based calibration if you have cams, but from your testing of different N/A setups, what are the HP/TQ differences between using the MAF function and switching to the MAP base calibration. If I was to retain the Stock Air Intake, would switching to the MAP base calibration yield better results overall??
Click to expand...
Honda uses the term 'AFM' = Air Flow Meter.
The ECU is not some sort of black magic in a box - if the AF, cam & timing is the same with either a AFM or MAP calibration then they will make exactly the same power.
There are good reasons to stick with the AFM - the ECU will compensate for increases air flow from most bolt ons (exhausts, headers and mild cams).
The downside to the AFM us that aftermarket intakes alter the air flow around the AFM and change the AF. This is usually not that bad and can be corrected with some tuning.
The second problem with the AFM is from high duration cams (and forced induction sometimes) causing a standing wave in the intake, which makes it almost impossible to get the AF right. In this case the MAP base calibrations are the right choice.
If using the stock intake then almost always the AFM based calibration will work best.
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soxfan143 said:
You need key on engine off to change anything inside the ECU. But that's just my educated guess.
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Yes - a well educated guess.

Three videos posted on FlashPro
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- On AFM vehicles, what is the MAP used for? Is it redundant?
The MAP is still used for ignition timing, cam angle and many other tables. It is easier to think that the AFM is used for fuel and the MAP for everything else.

- How does disabling the secondary o2 affect air/fuel?
The target af will be set to defaults - there are many trim tables in play, but nominally stoichiometric in closed loop. It is not going to be very different from when the SO2 is being used. WOT will not be effected. If you're concerned I can do a datalog with the secondary o2 enabled and disabled.
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soxfan143 said:
Hondata, is there a limit to how many times the RAM can be flashed before any damage might occur or any memory loss or anything like that? My tuner wants to know because with Nissan you only get 100 times guaranteed before it starts acting up and possibly losing memory and it's ability to store all the info.
Click to expand...
The processor manufacturer guarantees a minimum of 100 flash writes, however the true endurance of the flash memory is much higher - in the 10s of thousands.
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- I have X intake, Y header and fluffy things hanging from my mirror. How much power will I make with your system?

I can take 5 stock, same model Hondas and make 5 different power figures on one dyno.
I can take one Honda to 5 different dynos and get 5 different power figures.
There are a huge number of combinations of cam, intake, header and catback. Some parts work and others do not. This system will allow you to tune your airfuel ratio, ignition and cam angle to match your combination of parts and fuel type. We are providing the tuning ability. The power you make is up to your (intelligent) combination of parts and tuning.

If you take your car to a Hondata Dealer that has been tuning K-Pros they will be able to tune this system easily.
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Be careful - don't turn this into a 'FlashPro hacking' discussion - theoretical or not.

FlashPro will lock to your ECU before programming. If you return your ECU to stock, the FlashPro can be unlocked and transferred to another vehicle. You can only have a FlashPro locked to one vehicle at a time.
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even without the reflash your vtec still operates in a window
Click to expand...
Stock calibrations from Honda do not use a VTEC window - they have a fixed VTEC point.

here is a couple things i have been pondering regarding vtec
since the ctsc tune uses a window, will much hp be lost if the lower limit is raised not so it is more 'avoidable' in daily driving?
also in that window over 50% throttle, vtec is 'engaged', can that be changed to say 75% throttle? i can hear mine engage with minimal effort..... these came about with saving gas while 'not having fun w the car' thanks!
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MAP rather than throttle is used to determine the VTEC switch point within the VTEC window.
If the problem is that VTEC comes on too early then the solution is to alter the pressure settings. With a supercharger you shoud need to be in boost before VTEC switches if you are below the VTEC window upper point. NA it is a little more tricky as the elevation determines the maximum pressure you can use for the VTEC window.
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2006 US vehicles did not have a speed limiter, 2007+ did (135 mph). Euro vehicles have no speed limiter. JDM vehicles have a 180 kph limiter.

Will you guys be offering any type of custom tuning based on our own street driven datalogging?
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The point is that with the FlashPro either you or your tuner can custom tune your vehicle. We will provide starting calibrations but from there you should not have any trouble finding someone to tune your vehicle.

Hondata: I don't think this has been addressed yet but would downshift rev matching be within the capabilities of the ECU to do with a future update? Something similar to what the new 370Z does.
Click to expand...
No. Legal liability concerns prevents us from touching the DBW & ABS.
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I suggest you read our FlashPro release page under 'Price and availability'.

For low hp (300 & less) I would recommend keeping the stock FPR. For high hp (350+) you need a return fuel system. If you are in the middle ground then increasing the fuel pressure may be a option - the issues are achieving a consistent & reliable pressure. I think your tuning issues were how the car was tuned - could you change the injector dead time for instance?
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-Will there be a Greddy calibration?
We're not sure for the initial release. If we include a calibration we want it be something we've verified as working well. Turbocharged applications are more difficult than NA or supercharged as there is a much greater variation in each vehicle.

-Will my car pass smog?
Assuming a good o2 and cat, the emissions are the same as stock. However, you know the drill, FlashPro should not be used on pollution controlled vehicles in some states.
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soxfan143 said:
I have another question for Hondata. After flashing in your calibration, will you have to do the crank position learn procedure and the idle learn procedure?
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We've never needed to do a crank or idle position learn procedure after programming the ECU.
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- Engine rev in neutral and 1st gear
Not releated to the ECU. Be aware that when you have the clutch in you're putting 800 lbs of end thrust on the crank. The thrust bearing is fairly small, and probably unhappy.

- Rev hang.
The throttle closes to about 6% instantly, and then 3% (the normal idle setting) very quickly. The injectors, however, stay on for almost 1 second in a stock vehicle. That is what you feel.

- For economy there are not that many parameters which -Will there be an econo map? I do some long distance driving from time to time and this would help out greatly.
No, you think that an economy map will help you greatly. The education process begins.

The short answer is that it is possible to have a calibration which gives maximum power under full load and maximum economy at cruise.

The slightly longer answer is that for steady state economy the main factors are ignition timing, lambda and cam angle. Don't get into the mindset that if adding a little timing helps the engine then adding a whole lot helps it even more - with most of these outputs there is a curve, and often the optimum point is not a huge distance from stock.

Look at the magazine article I wrote several years ago for Honda Tuning using an RSX. Fuel Economy Tuning - Tech Review - Honda Tuning Magazine I have copied the main graphs from the article here.

For that example, at freeway cruise speeds and loads the stock ECU runs 47 degrees ignition timing, stoichiometric AF ratios and about 30 degrees cam timing. If you look at the ignition timing graph, then reducing the timing to about 42 degrees will give an economy gain of about 0.8%. The AF needs to stay at stoichiometric to keep the car happy, but if you were to ignore the car then leaning the fuel out 1 point would give 2% gain. However, I don't really feel that running leaner than stoichiometric is a good idea for an engine that is not designed to do so, especially for so little gains. The cam timing was close to optimum, but it seems that running at 50 degrees may give 1% of so gain. The gains may not accumulate, but in this case some ignition timing and cam timing tweaking should give you 1-2% gains.

At this point you can take your dyno tuned calibration, set the ignition timing at cruise to 42 degrees, set the cam angles at cruise to 50 degrees. You'll still make maximum power at full load, and when you're on the freeway you'll be close to maximum economy. That's your economy calibration. Which is also your maximum power calibration.

Now look at the gains - 1-2% in that example. I know that in city driving I can get another 5% economy by switching the engine off at traffic lights when I know I'll be there for a minute or more. For freeway driving, datalog you throttle position over time and see how steady it is. You'd be amazed how many people constantly speed up and slow down - which can reduce your economy by 10% to 20%. The point is that the tuning changes are outweighted by your driving style.

Disclaimer: The testing was made using an 03 RSX. The Civic has a different intake, exhaust, cams etc. Don't plug the numbers from the above examples into your car unless you plan to perform economy testing as I do in the article.

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If you disable the secondary o2 then it does not need to be present.
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- Hondata claims that a limited number of base maps will be available for common bolt-ons such as Intake and Exhaust, but that headers will benefit from tuning individually. Therefore, if I have a header, I need a tune to maximize HP and TQ gains?
Any base calibration will benefit from tuning - the question is how much you will gain. Headers make the most difference for any bolt on modification, however the AFM compensates fairly well for headers, and I think most people will not custom tune for that setup.

- FlashPro can reset VTEC windows and rev limits, but is there a limit to the VTEC window range with FlashPro? Could one, HYPOTHETICALLY, make the VTEC window enormous?
VTEC is going to be 2500 to 6500 rpm for just about any possible engine combination. Note that going above about 7000 rpm on the low cam is bad - the lost motion assembly floats, and the centre rocker chips the retainers.

- What about the rev limit? With the K20, is there a danger in raising it to, say, 9K?
Not recommended. You can run a stock engine to 9000 rpm, if you are careful not to let it unload. ie a free rev to 9000 rpm is not a good idea. However, if you run your engine above about 8600 rpm you will eventually break the pistons. Many people think they have run their engine to 9000 rpm, but they are almost certainly using the stock tach to estimate the engine speed, which over-reads. Also there is a time factor involved - the more times you run over about 8600 rpm the more liekly you are to have a problem.

- You can adjust the cam angles, but would you want/need to adjust them if you were running on stock internals?
Of course, tuning the cam angles is part of the tuning process. I'm not sure how stock internals ties in though.

- Can you store multiple maps on FlashPro and switch between them in relatively real-time (considering the 90second programming time, this is what im referring to)?
No. You can switch maps without a laptop in 90 seconds. Our question would be, what are you trying to do here? There is some misconception about needing a seperate power and economy calibration, and some people want different calibrations for different fuels (at which point we ask - can you switch fuels in less than 90 seconds?)
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