So can the people going with jackson racing's supercharger opt for this method of tuning over the reflash?
Hondata announces the FlashPro
Hondata is pleased to announce a new tuning product - the FlashPro. Initially this will available for the Civic Si and Civic Type R.
The FlashPro allows you to custom tune your Civic Si for aftermarket performance products, including forced induction. Additionally you can datalog, graph & analyze your engine parameters.
Out of the box features which you will like is the ability to run any sized injector, switch to a speed/density (MAP) based calibration to bypass any air flow meter problems from forced induction and big cams, and use a VTEC window. There also are the usual table editing and parameters such are cam angle, ignition, fuel, closed loop etc.
The price is $695, including tuning/datalogging software, and the expected release date is in June. June this year, if you’re in doubt.
For more information see FlashPro
We will update the above page with answers to your questions as they come up.
Thank you for your patience – we’ve been looking forward to this moment for some time.
Answers to questions. Disclaimer: some features may change by the release, but we're trying to give the best answers we can at the moment to your questions.
- Are there base calibrations?
Yes, for all common part combinations, plus JR and CT superchargers.
- Do I need dyno tuning?
It is not necessary for common part combinations (intake, exhaust), but you still have the option of custom tuning if you wish to get a little more. Camshafts probably will need tuning to get the most of the them - it will depend on the camshaft manufacturer.
- Can I get rid of the AFM?
You can switch to a MAP based calibration (recommened for forced induction and/or cams). You need to still physically retain the AFM because it also contains the IAT sensor.
- CT supercharger Stage 1 owners may choose to upgrade directly to the FlashPro.
If you paid a deposit for a Stage II reflash, you will need to discuss upgrade options with whoever took your deposit as neither CT Engineering or Hondata take deposits.
- Will this work on R18s or automatics?
Initially the FlashPro is for the US/Canada Si and Euro/Asia CTR. ECU part numbers are listed on our website.
- Will this work on more than one vehicle?
The FlashPro is locked to one vehicle. It can be unlocked and transferred to another vehicle by returning the ECU to stock.
- Can I share the calibrations I make for my car?
Yes.
- Do I need the laptop in the vehicle to reflash the ECU?
No. The FlashPro can upload either with or without a laptop.
- Is there a VTEC window?
Yes. This means that VTEC will operate based on rpm and engine load. For example, the supercharger reflashes have a VTEC window from 3200 rpm - 6000 rpm. At full throttle, VTEC operates at 3200 rpm. At light throttle, VTEC operates at 6000 rpm, and for load between full and light the VTEC will shift between 3200 rpm and 6000 rpm. (Engine load (MAP) is actually used to determine the switch point, but I've use throttle to illustrate the example). You can see some of this in a screen shot http://www.hondata.com/images/flashp...n-ignition.gif
Note that a VTEC window is more than just a VTEC point which you can vary by rpm - it has load characteristics too.
- So does that mean 1 unit Hondata flashpro can only work with one ecu or car only? Which mean i can't buy one set flashpro and used it together with a few of my buddies civics?
On ECU and vehicle at a time. You can unlock the FlashPro by returning the ECU to stock, and then transfer to another vehicle.
- Does it have control over DBW?
Yes, but we don't change anything to do with DBW. The first reason is that there is no need to - the DBW control works fairly well as it is. The second reason is for legal liability.
- Any option of immobilizer control?
The immobilizer can not be disabled. We've implemented a number of features designed to protect the owner of the vehicle from theft, and one of these is not to allow the immobilizer to be disabled. This is going to be much less of an issue than previous products because the ECU does not need to be removed / swapped.
- 90 sec programming - does that mean it can't do real time tuning?
Correct. In any case, if you are tuning a vehicle, you need to wait longer than 90 seconds between dyno runs in order to maintain consistency between runs. If you think you could set the dyno up as constant rpm or load, and then tune each cell in each table, this type of tuning does not work because the engine temperature and therefore output changes fairly rapidly, prohibiting this type of tuning.
- If the ECU had been reflashed by another maker, can Flashpro still work?
Probably - we could tell you based off the ECU part & serial numbers plus the calibration ID. When you unlock the FlashPro it will only be reflashed back to a stock calibration.
-Will this support a 64-Bit windows vista?
Not at first. We need to make sure the USB driver is working 100% before handing over the money to Microsoft, because after that every change to the USB driver incurrs a substantial cost to re-certify.
Edit: We have tested with Windows Vista 32 & 64 bit, and Windows 7 RC1 32 & 64 bit - the drivers work. This is a little puzzling as the 64 bit drivers are signed by us, but not certified by WinQual, so we would not expect them to work on Vista 64 and Windows 7 64 bit.
- can it control nitrous?
Not at the moment. However, you can at least control the ignition timing to make nitrous safer.
- Preorders?
Hondata is not taking preorders, but some of our dealers are.
- Will dealers need a software license?
No. Every FlashPro will come with the full tuning software FlashProManager.
- Are there training materials?
Three training videos to the FlashPro page.
- I have X intake, Y header and fluffy things hanging from my mirror. How much power will I make with your system?
I can take 5 stock, same model Hondas and make 5 different power figures on one dyno.
I can take one Honda to 5 different dynos and get 5 different power figures.
There are a huge number of combinations of cam, intake, header and catback. Some parts work and others do not. This system will allow you to tune your airfuel ratio, ignition and cam angle to match your combination of parts and fuel type. We are providing the tuning ability. The power you make is up to your (intelligent) combination of parts and tuning.
- Does it fix the rev hang?
Yes. The rev hang is the result of the injectors continuing to provide fuel for a period of time after the throttle is closed. This time is reduced by the calibrations provided with the FlashPro and the revs drop much sooner after throttle liftoff.
- Can it eliminate the second o2 sensor?
Yes. The secondary oxygen sensor is used to monitor the catalytic converter efficiency and assist with closed loop operation. For off road racing use in which a catalytic converter is not desirable, the secondary oxygen sensor can be disabled using the FlashProManager software without any negative affect on the tuning or operation of the car.
- What about smog with a MAP calibration?
According to US and CA law the FlashPro is for off road use only. However, if you did smog you would find the readiness codes supported and complete.
The FlashPro allows you to custom tune your Civic Si for aftermarket performance products, including forced induction. Additionally you can datalog, graph & analyze your engine parameters.
Out of the box features which you will like is the ability to run any sized injector, switch to a speed/density (MAP) based calibration to bypass any air flow meter problems from forced induction and big cams, and use a VTEC window. There also are the usual table editing and parameters such are cam angle, ignition, fuel, closed loop etc.
The price is $695, including tuning/datalogging software, and the expected release date is in June. June this year, if you’re in doubt.
For more information see FlashPro
We will update the above page with answers to your questions as they come up.
Thank you for your patience – we’ve been looking forward to this moment for some time.
Answers to questions. Disclaimer: some features may change by the release, but we're trying to give the best answers we can at the moment to your questions.
- Are there base calibrations?
Yes, for all common part combinations, plus JR and CT superchargers.
- Do I need dyno tuning?
It is not necessary for common part combinations (intake, exhaust), but you still have the option of custom tuning if you wish to get a little more. Camshafts probably will need tuning to get the most of the them - it will depend on the camshaft manufacturer.
- Can I get rid of the AFM?
You can switch to a MAP based calibration (recommened for forced induction and/or cams). You need to still physically retain the AFM because it also contains the IAT sensor.
- CT supercharger Stage 1 owners may choose to upgrade directly to the FlashPro.
If you paid a deposit for a Stage II reflash, you will need to discuss upgrade options with whoever took your deposit as neither CT Engineering or Hondata take deposits.
- Will this work on R18s or automatics?
Initially the FlashPro is for the US/Canada Si and Euro/Asia CTR. ECU part numbers are listed on our website.
- Will this work on more than one vehicle?
The FlashPro is locked to one vehicle. It can be unlocked and transferred to another vehicle by returning the ECU to stock.
- Can I share the calibrations I make for my car?
Yes.
- Do I need the laptop in the vehicle to reflash the ECU?
No. The FlashPro can upload either with or without a laptop.
- Is there a VTEC window?
Yes. This means that VTEC will operate based on rpm and engine load. For example, the supercharger reflashes have a VTEC window from 3200 rpm - 6000 rpm. At full throttle, VTEC operates at 3200 rpm. At light throttle, VTEC operates at 6000 rpm, and for load between full and light the VTEC will shift between 3200 rpm and 6000 rpm. (Engine load (MAP) is actually used to determine the switch point, but I've use throttle to illustrate the example). You can see some of this in a screen shot http://www.hondata.com/images/flashp...n-ignition.gif
Note that a VTEC window is more than just a VTEC point which you can vary by rpm - it has load characteristics too.
- So does that mean 1 unit Hondata flashpro can only work with one ecu or car only? Which mean i can't buy one set flashpro and used it together with a few of my buddies civics?
On ECU and vehicle at a time. You can unlock the FlashPro by returning the ECU to stock, and then transfer to another vehicle.
- Does it have control over DBW?
Yes, but we don't change anything to do with DBW. The first reason is that there is no need to - the DBW control works fairly well as it is. The second reason is for legal liability.
- Any option of immobilizer control?
The immobilizer can not be disabled. We've implemented a number of features designed to protect the owner of the vehicle from theft, and one of these is not to allow the immobilizer to be disabled. This is going to be much less of an issue than previous products because the ECU does not need to be removed / swapped.
- 90 sec programming - does that mean it can't do real time tuning?
Correct. In any case, if you are tuning a vehicle, you need to wait longer than 90 seconds between dyno runs in order to maintain consistency between runs. If you think you could set the dyno up as constant rpm or load, and then tune each cell in each table, this type of tuning does not work because the engine temperature and therefore output changes fairly rapidly, prohibiting this type of tuning.
- If the ECU had been reflashed by another maker, can Flashpro still work?
Probably - we could tell you based off the ECU part & serial numbers plus the calibration ID. When you unlock the FlashPro it will only be reflashed back to a stock calibration.
-Will this support a 64-Bit windows vista?
Not at first. We need to make sure the USB driver is working 100% before handing over the money to Microsoft, because after that every change to the USB driver incurrs a substantial cost to re-certify.
Edit: We have tested with Windows Vista 32 & 64 bit, and Windows 7 RC1 32 & 64 bit - the drivers work. This is a little puzzling as the 64 bit drivers are signed by us, but not certified by WinQual, so we would not expect them to work on Vista 64 and Windows 7 64 bit.
- can it control nitrous?
Not at the moment. However, you can at least control the ignition timing to make nitrous safer.
- Preorders?
Hondata is not taking preorders, but some of our dealers are.
- Will dealers need a software license?
No. Every FlashPro will come with the full tuning software FlashProManager.
- Are there training materials?
Three training videos to the FlashPro page.
- I have X intake, Y header and fluffy things hanging from my mirror. How much power will I make with your system?
I can take 5 stock, same model Hondas and make 5 different power figures on one dyno.
I can take one Honda to 5 different dynos and get 5 different power figures.
There are a huge number of combinations of cam, intake, header and catback. Some parts work and others do not. This system will allow you to tune your airfuel ratio, ignition and cam angle to match your combination of parts and fuel type. We are providing the tuning ability. The power you make is up to your (intelligent) combination of parts and tuning.
- Does it fix the rev hang?
Yes. The rev hang is the result of the injectors continuing to provide fuel for a period of time after the throttle is closed. This time is reduced by the calibrations provided with the FlashPro and the revs drop much sooner after throttle liftoff.
- Can it eliminate the second o2 sensor?
Yes. The secondary oxygen sensor is used to monitor the catalytic converter efficiency and assist with closed loop operation. For off road racing use in which a catalytic converter is not desirable, the secondary oxygen sensor can be disabled using the FlashProManager software without any negative affect on the tuning or operation of the car.
- What about smog with a MAP calibration?
According to US and CA law the FlashPro is for off road use only. However, if you did smog you would find the readiness codes supported and complete.
201 - 220 of 2042 Posts
i think what they mean is that some of the features in the software that were available in k-manager or heck even s-manager will not be available on flashpromanager from the get go.so can someone elaborate on what features this flash has as compared to kpro?
but i can imagine like k-manager, there will be updates over time and some of the features will get added. i remember with k-manager they were missing a lot of features that were available on rom editor/s-manager like full throttle shifting but were later added to k-manager thru updates to the software.
i've got a question for hondata though. i'm not too familiar with the 06+ si but do these cars come with a narrowband stock like the 05-06 rsx-s? if this is the case then 06+ si owners would need to buy a wideband to be able to street tune.
oh and for the moderators out there. can you guys please make a seperate sub-section for for tuning? label it 'ECU tuning' or something along those lines and move this thread there.
The 06 + Civic Si comes with a (semi?) wide band. Datalogs seem to indicate air fuel ratios are measured from mid 10s to as lean as. We have not calibrated this against aftermarket widebands.
I guess is time to start saving some money again!!!! But also is time to celebrate!!!
oh ok.The 06 + Civic Si comes with a (semi?) wide band. Datalogs seem to indicate air fuel ratios are measures from mid 10s to as lean as. We have not calibrated this against aftermarket widebands.
and as lean as ? lol.
i'm surprised the stock unit can read that low.
The Si sort of has a wideband O2 primary. It is fundamentally a narrowband but it has an oxygen cell pump inside it. It will pump oxygen into the exhaust strem. The ECU reads the amount of current it takes to get the AFR to stoich. Then in determines AFR from that. At least that's what my tuner told me.
if i were to want to use an aftermarket wideband with flashpro manager, will i be able to hook up the aftermarket wideband to be able to datalog?
i remember with k-manager i was able to use one of the pin outs on the k-pro ecu to hook up an aftermarket wideband and get it to read the a/f ratios thru k-manager.
i remember with k-manager i was able to use one of the pin outs on the k-pro ecu to hook up an aftermarket wideband and get it to read the a/f ratios thru k-manager.
is this a piggyback and how does it compare to kpro cuz on hondata website says its way different than kproThe 06 + Civic Si comes with a (semi?) wide band. Datalogs seem to indicate air fuel ratios are measured from mid 10s to as lean as. We have not calibrated this against aftermarket widebands.
Excellent summary. Now we just need to convince people that they can't use a voltmeter to diagnose problems with a current based sensor.The Si sort of has a wideband O2 primary. It is fundamentally a narrowband but it has an oxygen cell pump inside it. It will pump oxygen into the exhaust strem. The ECU reads the amount of current it takes to get the AFR to stoich. Then in determines AFR from that. At least that's what my tuner told me.
Wow, I logged off this morning and back on and just had to read 15 pages.. I love this thread! :woot:
No, it is not a piggyback. It allows you to reprogram your stock ECU. You don't need to do any wiring or touch the stock ECU, and it has full control over the ECU.is this a piggyback and how does it compare to kpro cuz on hondata website says its way different than kpro
We added the KPro text to highlight that they are two different products, because that has been a common misconception that we would release the KPro for the Civic Si.
What HP are we looking at with a header, intake and catback system?
Is there any results you guys can release from all the R&D and testing?
depends on the intake,header and exhaust along with weather,dyno,,yda yda yda.....
HP is going to be different. This is a tuning program. Not a mod that adds a certian amount of HP.
:yeahthat:What HP are we looking at with a header, intake and catback system?
Would it be the same gain as before or i guess it will depend on the person doing the tunning?
it varies. no 2 cars react the same to the same exact mods. and yeah it also has to do with whomever tunes it.:yeahthat:
Would it be the same gain as before or i guess it will depend on the person doing the tunning?
one person could lean out the setup a bit and pick up some more hp. that's just one example. there are too many variables to take into account like weather, elevation, and the dyno being used if being tuned on the dyno.
Lol. I know right. Will there be enough supply of these systems when release comes about? I'm worried about this aspect. I already have an appointment with my tuner and he's booked through the summer already and I really don't want to have to wait till September to get tuned with this magical device. Lol..Excellent summary. Now we just need to convince people that they can't use a voltmeter to diagnose problems with a current based sensor.
SMH why would it be the same as the before, thats why its called TUNING to get the most performance potential out of the mods of our cars; maximize its HP/TQ/TIMING etc etc IF its tuned properly of course.
201 - 220 of 2042 Posts
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