[Hondata]

Hondata is pleased to announce a new tuning product - the FlashPro. Initially this will available for the Civic Si and Civic Type R.

The FlashPro allows you to custom tune your Civic Si for aftermarket performance products, including forced induction. Additionally you can datalog, graph & analyze your engine parameters.

Out of the box features which you will like is the ability to run any sized injector, switch to a speed/density (MAP) based calibration to bypass any air flow meter problems from forced induction and big cams, and use a VTEC window. There also are the usual table editing and parameters such are cam angle, ignition, fuel, closed loop etc.

The price is $695, including tuning/datalogging software, and the expected release date is in June. June this year, if you’re in doubt.

For more information see FlashPro

We will update the above page with answers to your questions as they come up.

Thank you for your patience – we’ve been looking forward to this moment for some time.

Answers to questions. Disclaimer: some features may change by the release, but we're trying to give the best answers we can at the moment to your questions.

- Are there base calibrations?
Yes, for all common part combinations, plus JR and CT superchargers.

- Do I need dyno tuning?
It is not necessary for common part combinations (intake, exhaust), but you still have the option of custom tuning if you wish to get a little more. Camshafts probably will need tuning to get the most of the them - it will depend on the camshaft manufacturer.

- Can I get rid of the AFM?
You can switch to a MAP based calibration (recommened for forced induction and/or cams). You need to still physically retain the AFM because it also contains the IAT sensor.

- CT supercharger Stage 1 owners may choose to upgrade directly to the FlashPro.
If you paid a deposit for a Stage II reflash, you will need to discuss upgrade options with whoever took your deposit as neither CT Engineering or Hondata take deposits.

- Will this work on R18s or automatics?
Initially the FlashPro is for the US/Canada Si and Euro/Asia CTR. ECU part numbers are listed on our website.

- Will this work on more than one vehicle?
The FlashPro is locked to one vehicle. It can be unlocked and transferred to another vehicle by returning the ECU to stock.

- Can I share the calibrations I make for my car?
Yes.

- Do I need the laptop in the vehicle to reflash the ECU?
No. The FlashPro can upload either with or without a laptop.

- Is there a VTEC window?
Yes. This means that VTEC will operate based on rpm and engine load. For example, the supercharger reflashes have a VTEC window from 3200 rpm - 6000 rpm. At full throttle, VTEC operates at 3200 rpm. At light throttle, VTEC operates at 6000 rpm, and for load between full and light the VTEC will shift between 3200 rpm and 6000 rpm. (Engine load (MAP) is actually used to determine the switch point, but I've use throttle to illustrate the example). You can see some of this in a screen shot http://www.hondata.com/images/flashp...n-ignition.gif
Note that a VTEC window is more than just a VTEC point which you can vary by rpm - it has load characteristics too.

- So does that mean 1 unit Hondata flashpro can only work with one ecu or car only? Which mean i can't buy one set flashpro and used it together with a few of my buddies civics?
On ECU and vehicle at a time. You can unlock the FlashPro by returning the ECU to stock, and then transfer to another vehicle.

- Does it have control over DBW?
Yes, but we don't change anything to do with DBW. The first reason is that there is no need to - the DBW control works fairly well as it is. The second reason is for legal liability.

- Any option of immobilizer control?
The immobilizer can not be disabled. We've implemented a number of features designed to protect the owner of the vehicle from theft, and one of these is not to allow the immobilizer to be disabled. This is going to be much less of an issue than previous products because the ECU does not need to be removed / swapped.

- 90 sec programming - does that mean it can't do real time tuning?
Correct. In any case, if you are tuning a vehicle, you need to wait longer than 90 seconds between dyno runs in order to maintain consistency between runs. If you think you could set the dyno up as constant rpm or load, and then tune each cell in each table, this type of tuning does not work because the engine temperature and therefore output changes fairly rapidly, prohibiting this type of tuning.

- If the ECU had been reflashed by another maker, can Flashpro still work?
Probably - we could tell you based off the ECU part & serial numbers plus the calibration ID. When you unlock the FlashPro it will only be reflashed back to a stock calibration.

-Will this support a 64-Bit windows vista?
Not at first. We need to make sure the USB driver is working 100% before handing over the money to Microsoft, because after that every change to the USB driver incurrs a substantial cost to re-certify.
Edit: We have tested with Windows Vista 32 & 64 bit, and Windows 7 RC1 32 & 64 bit - the drivers work. This is a little puzzling as the 64 bit drivers are signed by us, but not certified by WinQual, so we would not expect them to work on Vista 64 and Windows 7 64 bit.

- can it control nitrous?
Not at the moment. However, you can at least control the ignition timing to make nitrous safer.

- Preorders?
Hondata is not taking preorders, but some of our dealers are.

- Will dealers need a software license?
No. Every FlashPro will come with the full tuning software FlashProManager.

- Are there training materials?
Three training videos to the FlashPro page.

- I have X intake, Y header and fluffy things hanging from my mirror. How much power will I make with your system?
I can take 5 stock, same model Hondas and make 5 different power figures on one dyno.
I can take one Honda to 5 different dynos and get 5 different power figures.
There are a huge number of combinations of cam, intake, header and catback. Some parts work and others do not. This system will allow you to tune your airfuel ratio, ignition and cam angle to match your combination of parts and fuel type. We are providing the tuning ability. The power you make is up to your (intelligent) combination of parts and tuning.

- Does it fix the rev hang?
Yes. The rev hang is the result of the injectors continuing to provide fuel for a period of time after the throttle is closed. This time is reduced by the calibrations provided with the FlashPro and the revs drop much sooner after throttle liftoff.

- Can it eliminate the second o2 sensor?
Yes. The secondary oxygen sensor is used to monitor the catalytic converter efficiency and assist with closed loop operation. For off road racing use in which a catalytic converter is not desirable, the secondary oxygen sensor can be disabled using the FlashProManager software without any negative affect on the tuning or operation of the car.

- What about smog with a MAP calibration?
According to US and CA law the FlashPro is for off road use only. However, if you did smog you would find the readiness codes supported and complete.

 

[Hondata]

Cobb is directed toward F/I while hondata targets Honda's which come N/A.

Read our post. We have gone to a lot of trouble to switch over the speed/density so that forced induction works correctly.

 

[Hondata]

Quick question for doug or whoever's camping the thread currently, will the learning curve of going from kPro to this be dramatic?

Anyone who can tune with a K-Pro will pick this up and be tuning within a few minutes.

 

[Hondata]

We started work on this in 2005. We announced publicly well over a year ago that we were going to make a product for the Si. How would it be to our advantage to delay a release? It would make no sense to do so. Sometimes the simplest explaination is the correct one.

 

[Hondata]

There are base maps for common configurations.

what kinda things will kflash not have that kpro does ? can we still pass emissions or will it be time to look for under the table NYSI lol "Not all features implemented in KPro are possible with FlashPro." care to elaborate please ?

Many people will try to compare the KPro with FlashPro, and we want them to understand they are different products, and will end up with different feature sets.
The FlashPro is for off road use only. However, the emissions are unchanged from stock.

 

[Hondata]

Hondata:
the civic SI and FN2 euro civic type R have the same flashpro calibrations? Can we, with the Fn2 type R, use the calibrations made for the USA civic SI?

The US Civic SI calibrations will not work for the Euro Civic Type R. The European Civic type R has a different intake, headers and mass air flow calibration.

You can use either the generic European performance reflash or the race calibration.

 

[Hondata]

The 06 + Civic Si comes with a (semi?) wide band. Datalogs seem to indicate air fuel ratios are measured from mid 10s to as lean as. We have not calibrated this against aftermarket widebands.

 

[Hondata]

The Si sort of has a wideband O2 primary. It is fundamentally a narrowband but it has an oxygen cell pump inside it. It will pump oxygen into the exhaust strem. The ECU reads the amount of current it takes to get the AFR to stoich. Then in determines AFR from that. At least that's what my tuner told me.

Excellent summary. Now we just need to convince people that they can't use a voltmeter to diagnose problems with a current based sensor.

 

[Hondata]

is this a piggyback and how does it compare to kpro cuz on hondata website says its way different than kpro

No, it is not a piggyback. It allows you to reprogram your stock ECU. You don't need to do any wiring or touch the stock ECU, and it has full control over the ECU.

We added the KPro text to highlight that they are two different products, because that has been a common misconception that we would release the KPro for the Civic Si.

 

[Hondata]

For the consumers that have purchased the whole stage II kit, will the stage II reflash price be credited toward the flashpro, so that all we pay is the difference?

Some points:

- CT Engineering set the price of the Stage 2 kit.
- Hondata (and I believe CT Engineering) have taken no money in advance.
- Hondata sells the reflash only through CT Engineering

You will need to have this conversation with the people who have taken your deposit.

As updated in the first post of this thread you have a choice.
If your ECU comes in next week it gets the reflash. If you choose to wait you can get the FlashPro.

 

[Hondata]

A few more questions... (Sorry I don't usually ever do these kinds of things to cars)
1. Is it worth it to pay the 795 if you only have an Intake?
2. How user friendly is this looking?
3. Will the higher cam profile of VTEC (2nd window) open up ONLY when full throttle is used?

1. Your choice.
2. As user friendly as we can make it. What you will find is that over time quite a large amount of technical knowledge will build up in the community, which will help you a lot.
3. The stock ECU operates VTEC at a fixed rpm point. For our reflashes (and FlashPro) we change VTEC to use a 'VTEC window', which means that VTEC will operate based on rpm and engine load. For example, the supercharger reflashes have a VTEC window from 3200 rpm - 6000 rpm. At full throttle, VTEC operates at 3200 rpm. At light throttle, VTEC operates at 6000 rpm, and for load between full and light the VTEC will shift between 3200 rpm and 6000 rpm. (Engine load (MAP) is actually used to determine the switch point, but I've use throttle to illustrate the example). You can see some of this in a screen shot http://www.hondata.com/images/flashpro-screen-ignition.gif

 

[Hondata]

What is the part number on your computer? It will look something like 37820-RRB-A14.

 

[Hondata]

would this work on the csx-s? I cannot see why not but just asking

What is the part number on your computer? It will look something like 37820-RRB-xxx.

 

[Hondata]

Shady...This changed over night on the site....
Said this last night on hondata's product page
NOW, today it says this.
So hondata still hasn't gave any insight of it auto locking to your car only or not and if it's able to tune several cars at the same time.

The page was changed to clear up confusion. Existing reflashes need to come to us to verify they have a reflash. At that point we put the ECU back to stock and lock the FlashPro to it.

We've answered the locking question - I know it is hard to find in 30 pages of posts. FlashPro can only be locked to one vehicle at a time. If you flash the ECU back to stock, then you can unlock the FlashPro and use it on another vehicle.

 

[Hondata]

Does the flashpro allow for vallet-mode, econo-mode, etc?

Yes - you can make a calibration with a speed limiter or one that will not start the vehicle. The question you need to ask is if you can then upload from the FlashPro more than one calibration without a laptop. This is something that we have not got listed in the feature list because we are not 100% sure it will make it to the first release, but it will be possible to use the FlashPro to upload a valet mode calibration, then upload a normal calibration.

A note for 'economy' mode - any well tuned calibration will be close to peak economy. There really is no need for a specific economy calibration. The only thing which will help your economy further is to run in open loop and leaner air/fuel mixtures. This will make your car a polluter and only gives you a few percent better economy. See the fuel economy graph in the article I wrote for Honda Tuning a few years back. Fuel Economy Tuning - Tech Review - Honda Tuning Magazine

theft mitigation?

We can't stop someone stealing your car or possessions, but we've tried to implement a few things to help security:
- Immobilizer cannot be disabled. We know there are fairly easy ways around the ECU immobilizer function, but we want to start out by not making it easy for theives.
- FlashPro can be password locked so that the FlashPro itself is no use if stolen.
- FlashPro has owner's details which can't be changed without the security password.
- ECU can be password locked so that another FlashPro won't upload to the ECU. If your car is stolen then the thief is looking at a new ECU and a trip to the Honda dealer.

 

[Hondata]

it has been answered, yes.

The stock ECU operates VTEC at a fixed rpm point. For our reflashes (and FlashPro) we change VTEC to use a 'VTEC window', which means that VTEC will operate based on rpm and engine load. For example, the supercharger reflashes have a VTEC window from 3200 rpm - 6000 rpm. At full throttle, VTEC operates at 3200 rpm. At light throttle, VTEC operates at 6000 rpm, and for load between full and light the VTEC will shift between 3200 rpm and 6000 rpm. (Engine load (MAP) is actually used to determine the switch point, but I've use throttle to illustrate the example). You can see some of this in a screen shot http://www.hondata.com/images/flashp...n-ignition.gif

 

[Hondata]

Does the FlashPro allows to take control over DBW?
Can we improve the throttle response and remove the factory delay that these cars have?

Mostly answered in the first post.
The DBW is actually pretty responsive. The 'rev hang' delay is not the DBW - it is a combination of the cam behaviour and emissions.

 

[Hondata]

- Does this device allow us to customize the shift light of our cars?
I believe the shift light is controlled by the cluster.

- I have a question concerning the removal of the MAF sensor with a turbo car. You say it can be removed but the IAT sensor is located in the MAF sensor. Does the feature only disable the MAF sensors control of the fuel only and allow you to keep the IAT sensor operational?
Correct, MAF is not used but IAT part of the MAF sensor is still needed.

 

[Hondata]

I now want to go k24 turbo or sc...

Do both. We have a tester making 350 WHP from a CT supercharged K24 in a Civic Si (no intercooling or meth injection).

 

[Hondata]

you'll have to upgrade just about everything in the car. the axle couldn't take the torque from twin charging.

My 234mph 680HP landspeed twin supercharged K20A2 RSX uses a stock gearbox, stock axles and a stock fuel rail.