[snowystars]

True, I guess last resort is to press it out and go with the prothane kit instead.

for lurkers: prothane rear control arm kit doesn't contain the front position bushing (with the flanges) on the trailing arm. It contains the rear position bushing, the knuckle bushings, and the upper arm bushings. I'm returning mine to get the energy suspension version (instructions suggest it contains both trailing arm and both knuckle bushings).

 

[snowystars]

Big thanks aguila88psi for posting the (possibly only) write up online; big helps on knowing what to reuse and measurement ideas.
Attempting to remove the flange pin: I called Energy for pointers and have tried prybar, pickle fork, and slide hammer without seeing/feeling flange pin movement. Next I'd combine methods with torching, but currently getting supplies to cut aguila for less headache.

Plan: aftermarket flanges--match its OD to sleeve ID; and match OEM sleeve to new sleeve OD and length. Calipers in the mail but with rough tape measurements of the sleeves, they seem to be American sizes (got same OD and length as above, so may need minimal to no drilling).

 

[snowystars]

eBay aftermarket trailing arm bushing replacements come with the supplied flanges that you need. From what i've seen the energy bushings don't supply the necessary flange in order to complete this job. Obviously as the 8th gen series is old most trailing arm flanges will not cooperate and usually need to be sawed off in order to knock out the rubber/collar.

I've finally had enough with the rear end slop. My modified suspension is stiff so all movement is going towards these bushings when taking a turn. I have 3 options; New $600 pair of arms from Honda, Energy Suspension bushing or the eBay rubber bushings but both collars have to come out for the replacements. I'm sure option #3 is best for my situation but the arm is a little crusty so not sure yet...

I'm actually rooting for the energy path since the collars can stay in place but the damn flange...... Thinking about purchasing the eBay rubber kit and using the flanges for the energy bushings.

Yeah I'm midway through getting ebay flanges--going to measure when they arrive so I can get the correct sleeves.
I considered your other 2 options too but wanted the stiffness of polyurethane lol.

A machine shop was able to pull a flange off (rotating and prying as instructions indicated); might be a plan B if coring the bushing sleeve comes clean (not sure if the small rubber/metal cylinder on the OEM sleeve needs to be removed for the bushing kit--figured buying sleeves would bypass a lot of this uncertainty and fit the bushings well).

 

[snowystars]

I was snooping around Siberian Bushings website today and found this:
View attachment 247487 View attachment 247488
Seems like a nice alternative to the energy ones and comes with the nessesery collar/flange.

Yeah I have that in my watch list too. Like how wouldn't have to worry about hunting for hardware lol; shipping options make it almost the same as rebuilding flanges+sleeves.

 

[snowystars]

Ended up purchasing the Siberian Bushings. Was too convinced about everything in one kit and couldn't stop thinking about it today. $200 gone but let's see how the install goes...

How did you remove your trailing arm? In one piece (knuckle + arm) or did you separate the two? I'm only knocking out the arm bushings.

Yeah the 50-70$ shipping might not be so bad if you get all the bushings for the rear suspension together. Piecing together the sleeves and flange pings will probably make my total cost for installing the energy rear lower bushings ~$200 (approximating $80 set, $50 sleeves, $60 flanges).
(for lurkers: note the siberian and energy bushings differ in shells/flanges/sleeves; this can change ease of installation and materials possibly sold separately)

I dropped knuckle out (bag wheel sensor, unbolt calipers. knuckle: unbolt top, then bottom bolts; dropped down-outward angle from trailing arm), then unbolted trailing arm.

Lol I proceeded with the removal too quickly when my prothane rear arm bushings were on the way (thought prothane would've been easier to install than energy...oops lol). Told the machine shop to remove all the shells...THEN found out the prothane kit didn't have the rear arm's front position bushing >_>. Dropped ~$150 to undo the mistakes from disassembling too quickly lmao (maybe could've gotten a new shell off mcmaster or something but eh). Think one way you can mess up installation is breaking/removing a shell you have to reuse.

 

[snowystars]

midproject update: removed flange pins and flanges as directed by Energy (notice smooth, underburnt rubber after propane and poor subpar torching technique)

12/10/22 update: project complete


My recommended solution given a 2nd attempt (basically follows Energy's directions with some modifications):

• drill rubber material around the sleeve (unit has 3 metal layers, outermost to innermost: bushing shell/casing, bushing metal rib, bushing sleeve) rubber aids first pin removal; drilling risks gashing sleeve and shell (polishable if not too deep)
• Clamp rear pin in large vise, grip front pin with long crescent wrench (looked 1.5-2ft), insert pickle fork between front pin and arm and extend its handle with cheater bar, rotate front pin while prying with constant pressure until front pin removed
• Burn around and inside the bushing to break rubber-metal adhesion (MAPP gas more efficient than propane). How-To Burn out Suspension Bushings: The Right Way | Suspension.com. Spent hours torching the visible rubber then 10 minutes of boiliing it from the metal-side made the rubber change from smooth to cracked like this:
  --falls apart easy. This is what mostly but incompletely charred looks like (note smooth vs charred sections):
• Vise grip pliers rear pin (still lodged in sleeve) and extend with cheater bar to increase leverage, rotate until rubber snaps, add pickle fork+cheater bar pry out (easy with sufficient MAPP torching)
• chisel rubber lip apart from bushing casing lip (easy with sufficient MAPP torching)
• press out remaining rubber via press sleeve of OD just shy of the casing's ID don't recommend this, my press sleeve got stuck, wedged with rubber--had machine shop hammer it opposite the way it entered with a sledge and large receiving cup. Instead, burn correctly.
• Wire wheel (recommend using wire sides like a flap sander, not wire tips), 400# sand wheel, deburr bores and sleeves (burn till rubber changes from smooth to charred, clear scraps, repeat).
• Press bushings
• Press flanges in in same orientation as OEM (I applied anti-seize as OEM flange pins are held by interference fit being smaller than sleeves; measured pin OD .5900"
  , sleeve ID .5880"
  , length approx 3.1305"
  . Used a vise and cheater bar, clamping close to the pin, alternating top and bottom positions. Care overtorquing after bottoming out--shattered my old vise. Suspecting the pictured "completed project" picture above wasn't fully bottomed out--its bushing gap is larger than the right side's). My pressing was more effective than hammering.

Pressing in and out would be far easier with a shop press for ease, evenly applied and greater force, and larger workspace. I had machine shop press out the knuckle ones; they pressed like how Energy directed. I used the auto parts loaner C-clamp or a vise to press in (the flanged bushing pieces should be easy to press in by hand when greased).

 

[snowystars]

I ended up ordering the knuckle bushings from Siberian Bushings as well. Will be knocked out later but might as well refresh all bushings to make the rear end tight for daily driving. Haven't attempted this job yet but my way will be to drill the rubber until the flange comes out, burn it with a torch (or wire wheel it) and press in new bushing per instruction. Same goes for the smaller one.

I'm following this video (credits to ByrdRebuilds):

Feel Energy knuckles would be easier install, they have no shell--I installed via vice and/or c-clamp press kit. Can't speak on handling differences though.
For the trailing arm: the rear position was easy to burn and press out (c-clamp), the front position seems a little trickier but I'd probably go with Energy rear kit plus Siberian trailing arm front position if I could start over just for the seemingly easier installation (t=20:30; no shell to worry about cleaning out or pressing in, comes with flange pins). byrd's front position (t=14:48) seems to be easy to remove as it's already cracked--likely easy chiseling a lip and pressing or cutting shell out (like he shows later in video for knuckles).

 

[snowystars]

Thats why I went Siberian on this job. The smaller one can be pressed out in my case and for the flange I will have to hackzall it first before poking it with a drill bit to remove the collar. Outer shell stays in place on the flange bushing. Shouldn't be too hard of a job if my somewhat-rusty Civic will cooperate.

His somehow fell out w/o burning the bushing. The Element bushing might be a little different but its the same thing.

On top of that, Siberian Bushings are rated at a 65 Shore A hardness - equal to hardened rubber (or rubber territory in this case). I like that because the bushing will still be able to flex w/o any issue. It's the "comfort" polyurethane which I will appreciate a lot. Energy and Prothane are definitely much higher on the hardness rating category but will be much better handling wise.

Ah sounds like no way around coring the front position bushing. I hate burning but seems burn+sand is the cleanest way to prep the shell :/

 

[snowystars]

I just finished my install; by hand, it feels WAY more sturdy than the relatively floppy OEM--not sure if that's by design or age. Feel a press helps a LOT. Edit-updated post #21 to reflect my path.

 

[snowystars]

How long did it take you to remove the large bushing by heating the outside of the shell? I will be using MAPP instead of my standard Propane.

I put the majority of the heat on the inside so it took too many hours (8-12h?). The majority of the heat should go on the outside to make the bushing easy to push out and/or wire wheel out (should be 3h I'd bet). Repeated burning inside and outside, followed by wire wheel until clean. Finished with 400# polish. The burning should make the rubber brittle and easy to remove; if it looks smooth like pictured above, it's not roasted enough.

 

[snowystars]

I was at the junkyard today to play around with one and yes, the heat definitely needs to go on the outside of the bushing. Placing the MAPP torch on the outside for only 30 seconds I was already able to poke the bushing with a flathead and seems like it will come out in one piece.

Are you in a rust free zone? My original plan was to buy 2 replacements that are in better condition than mine and the plan failed because the cam bolt was fused shut. I was able to cut it 75% until the battery for my sawzall died so I gave up and left it. Junker was in a front wreck so I checked service records to see what mileage it had and noticed it may had tire wear issues (final 2 visits at the shop was for tires). Trailing arm also looked to be a tiny bit bent so I was leery of taking it. This unfortunately led me to biting the bullet and purchasing new arms from Honda for $650 + shipping to never deal with this job again. I will still continue the project on the Siberian polyurethane bushings because the non-Si bushings are made soft for comfort and didn't want that. On top of that I don't think I can return the poly bushings.

This will be the final project for my 2006 Civic because I have done everything else suspension wise for a nice handling daily driver but the trailing arms were left out until now because of the difficulty of this job. At least I got to learn how this job might go. Fun times 😡

Does a hand powered hacksaw work? I think I mentioned buying an arm too: for accidentally telling machinist to cut bushing shell :/. Gotta sell my cored arm after this to recover some haha.

Rust free zone but some corrosion on outside of bushings. The inside should be watertight enough to remove via energy suspension directions I feel (the insides were clean). Seemed daunting to remove this way at first but overall potentially cheapest as only paying for bushings.

When you get the new arms I'm curious if the flange pins move with your finger strength like my 200k ones lol.

 

[snowystars]

Well, I was able to get the suspension assembly out of the junk car but the knuckle was stuck on due to the cam bolt. This is when I played around with the flange bushings which i'm glad I did because it relieves me to know I don't have to stress about this. I had doubts so I left it at the yard. If I really wanted to yes, I could've used the yard trailing arms but I would have to invest in another Milwaukee battery because my single one died really quick. I'm not the type of person to do stuff twice so I purchased new ones to guarantee they are straight. Posts from a couple years ago mention buying trailing arms from the yard but the 8th gen series wasn't old at the time so any 06-11 Civic that was there had somewhat low miles and abuse i'm assuming (probably just paranoid of used parts w/ no real life history).

Researching also unveiled these trailing arms are known to snap from the skinny side due to stress and age. I already knew this from 2020 so if I was going junkyard route I would reinforce the arm with a 1/2 in" long steel bar where it breaks and tack weld it on to prevent it from collapsing. New arm I don't have to worry about this.

What surprised me is that no aftermarket company makes replacement trailing arms. Just goes to show most people don't need to buy new ones unless impact damage occurs or they just snap out of the ordinary.

As for the new arms, i'm sure the flange can be twisted out with a large vise. What sucks is that i'm going to ruin a brand new bushing but it has to be done so I can install my upgraded one. I'm around $1,000 into this job right now which makes me very sick but gotta pay to play. When i'm done my car should handle like a dream and won't need to put a single dollar suspension wise ever again.
View attachment 247536

Really wish they had aftermarket arms; that alone would cut costs and time so much.

The handling is the primary reason for going down this road!

 

[snowystars]

That damn collar for the flange bushing needs to come out first in order to install the yellow poly bushing. I've tried everything but that piece will not come out. No way to press it out with a shop press due to design of the arm. All i'm doing is f*** up my new trailing arms so now its going to a machine shop. This has been the most frustrating project ever - never again.
View attachment 247649 View attachment 247650

Isn't the collar part of the arm so it stays? Just deburr and press in?

The enegy bushings had to have the casings left in. I have a left arm with the casings removed if you need it? If you need to remove casing, per what I've read (burning bushings url I linked before), cut a relief cut without damaging arm (don't need to fully cut through casing) then press out. BUT DOUBLE/TRIPLE CONFIRM WHETHER CASING STAYS OR GOES BEFORE CUTTING; YOU CAN'T GO BACK (I've scoured aftermarket casings and best bets seem to be new arms, or machined casings ie mcmaster or similar but cheaper).


Driving update: bushings feel great; haven't taken them for a pressure test yet as I'm troubleshooting wheel alignment--suspecting and hoping it's warped rotors (increased pull when driving faster or braking, braking pull stronger even when 20mph driving)

 

[snowystars]

I pressed in the one-piece poly bushing and it was definitely squished in there. Ears were poking out and was not sitting perfect which the Element guys was. Also noticed his doesn't have the stupid shell in there so his bushing sat perfectly fine while mine was squished/binding in there with the shell in place. I pressed them both out and was able to save one bushing out of the two. $63 mistake but I blame the manufacture for not including instructions. Ordered a new one.

The customer service guy where I purchased the bushings from told me to leave the shell in place when I asked him about this specific bushing before I messed with the trailing arms. Had worried speculations the collar had to come out first and damn I was right. No machine shop responded to my email (assuming its a waste of time to them) so looks like I might have to invest in an air compressor and an air hammer. Seems like a good investment anyways but would rather not spend more.

Looking back the energy suspension bushing is a much easier alternative if the right collar for the flanges is obtained. Only went with Siberian for the 65A hardness rating and the one piece construction which will never squeak (twist vs drag on energy bushing).

Yikes; I had a poor result from a few customer service groups too--treat their advice as advisory unless they're engineers (not "profit-boosting engineers") is my working rule of thumb. Think I saw Siberian bushings listed on the product page (https://siberianbushing.com/catalog/HONDA/USA/CIVIC/FG2/2006 wrench square on right). This project definitely taught me to be conservative and not complacent about planning (paid a couple hundred dollars to learn this lol). $10 calipers for this project helped me learn about how exact some dimensions have to be. Also noticed the bores have to be cleaned very well--remnant rubber can impede bushing movement, promoting binding and making install difficult--Energy soft components were pressable by hand on my better-cleaned bore.

Energy kit utilizes the OEM shell (dimensions listed in a prior post). Think Siberian kit is also 3 polyurethane pieces, just that the middle segment is relatively larger, whereas Energy's 3 are about the same size--think squeaking is a matter of insufficient/lost grease.

Suggest calling/visiting machine shops. Bushing jobs seem to be common for machine shops (but of varied experiences) so you can ask for a quote. When you find a good shop, they can be your go to for a lot of things ie rotor machining, engine rebuilding, or more bushings. The prior linked bushing burning/shell removal guide combined with Energy's instructions were extremely helpful (gave instructions machinist hadn't thought of). The prior linked bushing removal guide in post #21 mentions making a relief cut (ie via hacksaw); I mean I've seen people remove shells via air hammer but I feel that also increases the risk of marring the housing.