[7plymaple]

Long story short I ended up buying the EM1 CMC from my local honda dealership and the braided line from Hybrid Racing. My problem is the CMC I got takes a 12mm fitting. But the Hybrid Racing line came with 10mm at both ends. My 2009 EX stock master and slave cylinders have 10mm fittings.

So did I get the wrong CMC from the dealership? Or did I get the wrong line from Hybrid Racing? Does the Hybrid Racing CMC and Braided line kit come with a line that has 10mm on the slave end and 12mm on the master end?

Thanks.

 

[7plymaple]

Never mind. I figured it out. If anyone else ever runs into this problem you can whip up a quick adapter out of a 12mm fitting. Just drill it out and tap for 10.0 x 1 threads. Dont drill all the way through so the bottom of the fitting will still have the taper to seal against the copper flare seal inside the CMC. And pick a fitting with a smooth enough top end for the banjo fitting crush washers to seal on it.

 

[Beckerson1]

Nvm!!!

 

[RandoFG2]

before you intsall it you should return it and get the upgraded OEM CMC that is made for our car. Preforms well above the EM1 CMC that isnt made for our car.

How to avoid buying a EM1 CMC

 

[7plymaple]

Oh cool Honda addressed the problem so many people seem to be having. How does the engagement range differ between stock and the upgraded one? I originally got interested in doing this mod as a precaution for next summer when I will be doing some track days. After reading as much as I could find on the topic I came to the conclusion that it was probably an issue with improper adjustment from the factory. Seems like most people who did the EM1 swap did the proper adjustment with the install and are benefiting from that. But what sold me on doing the EM1 swap is I heard it has a much smaller engagement range like the older (IMO much more fun to drive) civics. I'm not actually experiencing the lockout or any grinding issues.. yet lol.

Unless they smartened up and gave it shorter engagement like most older Japanese cars I'm not interested. For me this is will hopefully make the car suit my driving tastes a little more.

Thanks for letting me know about the upgraded one though. It's the first I've heard of it. If I don't like the EM1 I will give that a shot!

Happy New Year!

 

[RandoFG2]

Oh cool Honda addressed the problem so many people seem to be having. How does the engagement range differ between stock and the upgraded one? I originally got interested in doing this mod as a precaution for next summer when I will be doing some track days. After reading as much as I could find on the topic I came to the conclusion that it was probably an issue with improper adjustment from the factory. Seems like most people who did the EM1 swap did the proper adjustment with the install and are benefiting from that. But what sold me on doing the EM1 swap is I heard it has a much smaller engagement range like the older (IMO much more fun to drive) civics. I'm not actually experiencing the lockout or any grinding issues.. yet lol.

Unless they smartened up and gave it shorter engagement like most older Japanese cars I'm not interested. For me this is will hopefully make the car suit my driving tastes a little more.

Thanks for letting me know about the upgraded one though. It's the first I've heard of it. If I don't like the EM1 I will give that a shot!

Happy New Year!

happy new year to you as well!

from what ive read adjusting the new OEM one makes the engagement point alot higher towards the top after its adjusted properly. making it extremely easy to shift fast without grinding, if your EM1 is serving you good more power to you!

 

[06Hondacivicsi]

I have the HR CMC and it's been doing just fine. People make the adjusting process out way harder than it needs to be; it's actually pretty simple. You can count number of turns it takes to take the pedal bracket off, or eyeball it. Then when you get it all on the car, all you need is to adjust so that you have I think 1/8th of an inch (should be able to wiggle the pedal before you need to give more pressure to depress the pedal [also says in the HR instructions[) and you should be able to press the slave cylinder an 1"-1.5". As for adjusting the clutch pedal sensor, adjust it so there is no free-standing pressure on the switch. Only enough pressure so that when the clutch is depressed it starts the car. And for the cruise control switch, adjust it so there is only a little pre-load on the switch so that is takes a little tap to cancel cruise control. You can adjust the engagement of the pedal to your liking in terms of distance from the floor. You just have to make sure you can still press in the slave cylinder, then adjust the two switches accordingly. Not adjusting the clutch pedal correctly with not being able to press the slave cylinder in will result in pressure being put on the slave cylinder putting pressure on the throwout bearing, and prematurely wearing out your clutch.

 

[7plymaple]

Is the HR CMC the updated one? Thanks for the advice guys.

I have to say though after checking out those videos there is a little more to adjusting the CMC than that guy mentions. From my understanding you have to check to make sure you can still depress the slave to make sure that return valve is not blocked. Maybe he mentions it and I missed it. But you can't just go by how much play there is in the rod. I think the reason why some people get the rod grinding against the pedal arm is because they needed a different adjustment than he came up with. Because they did the adjustment according to checking the function of the return/self adjusting valve by pushing the slave. He did make good points about the differences in the rods and differing dimensions of the CMCs.

Hopefully I'll actually have tried this myself tomorrow or on the weekend lol. I'm talking out of my ass until I actually do it!

 

[06Hondacivicsi]

What are you talking about...? There is no "updated" Hybrid Racing clutch master cylinder. The only variations between the HR CMC is in the lines they included. Before, the CMC came with a angled fitting that was not stainless steel braided. Now, they come with a banjo fitting that you can adjust the angle of to whatever you want. Make sure you use the correct order of parts when installing/assembling the clutch master cylinder. Stop confusing yourself by reading/watching stuff that is convoluting. Adjusting the pedal is not that hard, considering you have the correct parts in the correct order. Re-read my previous post for adjusting the pedal in addition to re-reading these instructions.
8th Gen Civic Master Cylinder Upgrade Kit | Hybrid Racing
These will show you how to adjust it. In any event, feel free to message me or call HR. Don't over-think it. It's not that hard.

 

[RandoFG2]

Is the HR CMC the updated one? Thanks for the advice guys.

I have to say though after checking out those videos there is a little more to adjusting the CMC than that guy mentions. From my understanding you have to check to make sure you can still depress the slave to make sure that return valve is not blocked. Maybe he mentions it and I missed it. But you can't just go by how much play there is in the rod. I think the reason why some people get the rod grinding against the pedal arm is because they needed a different adjustment than he came up with. Because they did the adjustment according to checking the function of the return/self adjusting valve by pushing the slave. He did make good points about the differences in the rods and differing dimensions of the CMCs.

Hopefully I'll actually have tried this myself tomorrow or on the weekend lol. I'm talking out of my ass until I actually do it!

the "updated one" im referring to is actually a OEM cmc that honda re-released after all the gear lockout issues. Its cheaper than the hybrid racing, and its OEM.

 

[7plymaple]

Ah HR meant Hybrid Racing. I thought it was a name for the updated factory CMC. Don't worry I'm not stressing thinking it's going to be a hard job. Just rambleing my thoughts on the keyboard really lol. Thanks man!

 

[06Hondacivicsi]

Right, updated oem CMC is for the TSB regarding popping, squealing and that sort of stuff with the stock CMC. With the updated stock CMC versus the HR, I think it really comes down to personal preference. I decided against the stock cmc because of the plastic internals versus the steel internals of the em1 cmc. But, both cmc's are OEM. The only difference with the HR CMC is that they sell it with a stainless braided line. I thought the install was going to be a lot harder than it was, it's actually pretty easy. The install took me a long time, and a lot of frustration from one simple part. The parts NEED to be assembled in the correct order with the correct parts. What held me up was the retaining ring. The dimple needs to be facing outwards. If it is not, the clutch pedal rod cannot return to resting position, and will act as is there is pressure on the pedal; thus not allowing me to adjust the clutch pedal and not allowing me to press the slave cylinder. I probably took the CMC in/out of the car at least 20 times to figure this out. I could have the CMC out in 5 minutes no joke haha. But, if you'd like I can pretty much run you down the process step by step if you'd like. It's really not that hard of an ordeal. If you want to see pictures where it is, take a look on my updated build thread.

 

[7plymaple]

Woah sounds like you had a frustrating time! lol its always the little things that screw you the worst! That reminds me of when I did the timing belt on my Mazda. The crankshaft position sensor magnetically picked up on the teeth of this disc that looked kind of like a gear. It was slightly dished off to one side but could fit either way. All I had was the Hanes manual not the official one. The crude drawings and described steps mentioned nothing of which way the thing went on. I chose the wrong way and had to re do half the job again in the rain with a tarp draped over the open hood. Had to be on my back on the wet ground too haha.

I already took the stock CMC out of the civic two or three days before new years. It wasn't hard to get out at all. In the second pic above that I posted on new years eve you can see my stock cmc and the Parts already swapped in the background. My only problem was the HR line's banjo fitting not matching the threads on the EM1 CMC I got from the dealer. That's when I started this thread.

I didn't get the kit from HR. Got the CMC from the dealer then realized it would be a nicer install with the HR braided line. So I bought just the line from HR. When they didn't match up It took me a couple days to figure out a solution. Tried all the local parts shops and hydraulic fitting supply shops looking for an adapter. Then I took matters into my own hands and butchered a 12mm brake line fitting into a 10mm to 12mm adapter. So once again... the little things! lol

Since then I havent felt like getting out in the cold to throw it back in.

Were the threads on your stock CMC the same size as your EM1 CMC?

 

[06Hondacivicsi]

Yeah it's always the little stuff you have to pay attention to. And I know what you're talking about doing that stuff in the rain. A garage is a necessity. Hm, I have no idea why you're having issues with the clutch line. I'd be careful with adapters and all that stuff since it might not have a good seal. It's just another thing that can hold you up. But, if it works it works. The only problem I can think of is that you're using parts HR put together for an SI when you have an EX. But, the only part I don't get is the CMC part. The line should fit at the CMC end. I could see how it might not fit at the slave cylinder since the SI's and EX's have different slave cylinders.

 

[06Hondacivicsi]

If you didn't mangle up your stock hardline, then you can use it on the EM1. But see I know that would work on an Si, I don't know if that would work on an EX.

 

[7plymaple]

Well that's my problem. My stock slave and master cylinders both use 10mm. My HR braided line has 10mm fittings at both end. So I could use it with the stock CMC and slave.

But the EM1 CMC I got takes 12mm. It's the only thing I have with 12 so my worry has been that it is the wrong part since I got it seprately.

Do you know for sure that your stock line fit with your EM1? Mine does not.

I will probably have put it in by the time you respond but if it doesn't work your answer might help lol.

Thanks

 

[06Hondacivicsi]

Yeah, I think you might have accidentally bought the wrong CMC perhaps. And yes, I know that for a fact the OEM hardline for the stock CMC will indeed fit the keyword *Hybrid Racing* CMC. But, that part is just an OEM 1999 Civic Si CMC. I don't understand why you're having problems. But, you can either use like you said the stock hardline (if you didn't bend it) or the HR braided line.

 

[7plymaple]

Just finished it and went for a drive. Works awesome. But it was one of those days! Lol it snowed all morning then it was raining when I got to work! Did an oil change trans fluid change and the cmc swap. Also checked the slave for a check/delay valve. But there isnt one on the r18!

 

[06Hondacivicsi]

Nice! yeah you're right the EX slave's don't have a delay valve. But, were you able to press in the slave cylinder or run into any adjusting problems?

 

[7plymaple]

Yes I checked to make sure I could depress the slave. I did'nt run into any problems. Bled it, adjusted it in one go. And also while the car was on jack stands to change the tranny fluid I tested for clutch drag by putting it in gear, holding the clutch down and reved the engine to see if the wheels turned. They didn't.

This is a great mod for anyone who is into autoX for sure. It's much easier to get a good launch if you are used to driving older Japanese cars. I'm not a fan of the super smooth no feel stock CMC. This is good. This is what I wanted when I bought a civic.

Thanks for the help. Oh and I ordered the 2000 Civic Si CMC so that's where I messed up. Totally forgot when the 6th gen ended. So I guess that made this an EM2 swap? And would probably explain the damn 12mm threads.