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From LOG CABIN DEMOCRAT

It's almost that time of year when the tax man giveth back a portion of what he hath taken away.

For many, this means it's new car season. But which new car is the best choice? Log Cabin Staff Writer Joe Lamb decided to find out by testing four of 2007's hottest offerings under $25,000, the Nissan Altima Coupe, Scion tC, Chevrolet Cobalt SS Supercharged and Honda Civic Si sedan. This review is the first of two installments.

This writer's opinions on the merits of each car are just that, his own opinions. They do not reflect those of the Log Cabin Democrat in any way.

Honda Civic Si

Civic Si feels separate and different from the base model as soon as you open the door. Purists might bemoan the retreat of the hatchback Civic Si from American shores, but the new four-door Si's supportive and low-slung sports seats, stumpy alloy shifter and pedals positioned perfectly for heel-and-toe downshifts do their part to confirm that the spirit of the old Si remains intact, regardless of the door count.

A big part of that spirit, as with every fast Honda since the 1988 Prelude 2.0 Si, is tucked under the hood. Here the new Si doesn't disappoint. Within a whisker of 100 horsepower per liter, the Si's high-compression 2.0 liter twincam four pumps out 197 horsepower at a giddy 7,800 rpm. Also true to Honda form it makes a rather less exclamation point-worthy 139 lb-ft of torque.

The car tested wore more black than Johnny Cash. The seats are black, the carpet is black, the door panels are black, etc. Only the sporty red stitching on the seats and well-judged use of alloy-effect plastic on the console and steering wheel saved the car's interior from looking like the lost-and-found bin at a Cannibal Corpse concert.

Honda wisely chose to fit the Si with electrically-assisted power steering as opposed to hydraulic steering found in the rest of the Civic lineup. The result is a sharper feel at the helm, seeming at once more delicate and more mechanical. Feedback from the road is good, but not outstanding. Sadly, Honda's days of unassisted, feel-every-pebble steering seem to have died with the NSX, but the Si's steering is still about as good as it gets in this price range.

The Si is fitted with a limited slip differential, but you wouldn't know it at parking lot speeds, where there's wheelspin aplenty. At higher speeds the 'diff makes its presence known, divvying up traction between the front wheels to punt the car out of corners with a minimum of wheelspin, but it doesn't emulate the more uncompromising Honda Integra Type-R's (available only to the European and Asian market) wonder differental, which is reputed to give an almost rear-drive feel.

The Si gets a red-tinted tachometer as opposed to the standard Civic's more peaceful blue one, and the separate digital speedometer stacked on top of the 'tach in a housing just under the windscreen is shared by both. Shuffling your gaze up and down between the tach and speedo, rather than side to side to make sure neither socially sensible revs nor Conway traffic laws are breached takes some getting used to; and mighty tempting it is to venture into the naughty side of both.

A twist of the key is all it takes to know Honda put some of their best and brightest to task on the Si engine. A trait of most high-compression engines (11.0 to 1 for the Si, the same as a Lamborghini Murcielago LP640(!)), the cylinders make high-pitched chirping sounds as the starter motor stirs the engine before it bursts into life with a surprisingly bass-rich burble. The as-standard sports exhaust system makes about as good a noise as you're going to get with an inline four, at once cultured and exuberant.

Low revs aren't the Si's fort. Compared to, say, the Scion tC or Cobalt SS SC, the engine feels downright anemic below 2,000 rpm. But Honda's engineers have been working for almost two decades to perfect a hole card that trumps the tC's Camry-sourced 2.3 liter and Nissan's 2.5 liter, and almost matches the Cobalt SS SC's supercharged 2.2 in outright power output: i-VTEC. Explaining just how VTEC works is one of those long-winded gearhead diatribes that sends even the most patient listeners running for the hills. Suffice to say it's a mechanism by which the camshafts shift slightly at a certain RPM (6,000 in the Si's case, give or take a few hundred revs) to allow the engine to breathe in as much fuel and air as is physically possible.

It's the same basic principal as the old "cammer" engines of muscle car lore. Dragstrip aficionados will know the rough, uneven idle of Detroit big iron tuned to sing like Pavarotti down the strip, but so highly-strung they're barely able to keep ticking over at anything under 1,000 rpm.

i-VTEC is the best of both worlds. With the camshafts spun back to their normal low-rev, around-town configuration the Si is a grocery getter, getting 31 miles to the gallon. Above 6,000 rpm it's a racer, and fuel consumption concerns fly right out the window. If the engine pulls a Jekyll and Hyde from idle to 6,000 rpm, it's a full-on Dracula from 6,000 to the 8,000 rpm redline.

There's a noticeable kick in the back as the needle passes six grand, almost like the second stage of an old four-barrel carburetor coming on-line, accompanied by a sudden hardening of the exhaust note and induction whine. Keep the revs below the VTEC camshaft shift point and it's an economy car. Pass it and it's full speed ahead and damn the ice caps. Making an engine spin faster, to refute the oft-repeated racetrack mantra, is one of several replacements for displacement.

You can ask for an automatic transmission in an Si, but you're not going to get one. You'll shift your own gears, says Honda, and you'll like it, or at least you'd better. The only place you'll find a finer shift this side of a Ferrari is in Honda's S2000 or NSX.

While the engine, steering and transmission approach motoring perfection, there's mixed messages from the chassis.

Honda's found a great balance with the Si's suspension. It's not the chiropractor's delight that is the Subaru STi or Mitsubishi EVO IX (both also performance sedans) but nor is it the wet noodle of a host of pretenders to the hot import throne.

Though the suspension is right in the not-too-hard, not-too-soft "Goldilocks zone," the chassis isn't infused with the same sportscar DNA as the engine, gearshift and steering. It might be a different story with the shorter-wheelbase coupe, but it was a real disappointment as the sedan's on-its-toes cornering stance dissolved in the corners into boring old understeer no matter what fancy trail braking or mid-corner lifts of the throttle you threw at it. Though Honda did elect to position handbrake lever provocatively close to the shifter, tail-out antics were clearly not on Honda's handling wish list this time.

Learn to revel in everything the Si does well and the joy per mile figure is still at the top of its class. To get the best out of the Honda you don't play it fast and loose like you would the Cobalt SS S/C. Instead, it's best enjoyed as a precision instrument, and a big part of the joy in driving it is using the excellent steering and scalpel-sharp throttle response to push the front tires to their limits of adhesion without stepping over.

In short: An astounding amount of engineering for the money.

Scion tC

Good marketing has always sold cars, but Scion's parent company, Toyota, has taken vehicle marketing to the next level; a level that means no review of a Scion product can be complete without a review of the marketing behind it.

The Japanese "big three" of Nissan, Toyota and Honda realized in the '80s that while the American market had finally come to respect the depth of Japanese engineering, a lot of us yanks had a hankering for something with a little more panache than, say, a 1989 Maxima, Camry or Accord.

The solution? Add to the basic architecture of these cars a luxurious but thoroughly modern interior, pack the doors and engine compartment with enough sound-deadening material to stop small-arms rounds, tidy up the bodywork a bit, send the engineers back to the drawing board until they come up with engines that make the smoothest-running American small engines seem, in comparison, like overloaded rock tumblers and, most importantly, change the badges and up the price.

Their plan worked. The 1986 Acura Legend (Honda), 1989 Lexus LS 400 (Toyota) and 1990 Infinity Q45 (Nissan) sold like hotcakes, leading the three offshoot branches to grow, gradually, into the well-established mighty oaks we know them as today.

More than 15 years later, Toyota's taken the next logical step. They've got the sensible, solid crowd pleased with their Toyota-badged offerings, and the folks who want unblemished leather, a silken drivetrain and a badge that might get mention in a hip-hop song are tickled pink with Lexus, but turn-of-the-century soundings by Toyota's marketing machine (which has historically been right up there with their engines for reliability) correctly detected another market on American soil; one more Amy Winehouse than Debbie Reynolds and more techno than philharmonic and that's where Scion comes in.

Founded in 2003 with the intent of capturing the brand loyalty of a generation jaded by drastic industry-wide quality increases and suddenly affordable luxury, Scion is well on its way to becoming as established a fixture in the American automotive scene as Lexus, Infinity or Acura. The marketing is spot-on for the fast-and-furious, never-a-dull-night, pseudo-streetwise, post-postmodern, neo-hipster (and hyphen-heavy) market.

But does the Scion flagship, the tC coupe, have the same youthful and exciting DNA pressed and forged into its metal as it does ingrained in its advertising? And equally important, is it as good as the almost too aggressively styled and dynamically competent Toyota Celica it effectively replaced?

The first thing that needs to be said about the tC doesn't seem to jive: It's got a Camry's engine. However, the Camry's engine, in truth, isn't half bad in the Camry. With the 300lb lighter tC bolted to it, it's actually quite good.

With the Civic Si's over achieving 2.0 liter four batting out a whisker under 200 horsepower and the Cobalt SS S/C's a whisker over 200, it would be easy to assume the 160-horse tC would feel underpowered in their company. The Cobalt's got it soundly outgunned but the tC's less-than-racy powerplant doesn't yield much ground to the Honda in off-the-line acceleration. The tC's 2.4-liter engine benefits from almost 25-percent greater displacement than the Si's, and this pays dividends for the Scion in the form of torque; 163 pound-feet, to be exact. That's 24 pound-feet greater than the Si's engine can thrash out.

The relationship between horsepower and its dastardly cousin torque is a complicated one. Suffice to say that torque is what shoves a car away from a stoplight and horsepower is what pulls it to high speeds. Once the Si's engine is on-song at 6,500 rpm it's the more powerful engine, but it'd take a well-driven Si to dust the torquier tC at the lights, horsepower advantage or no horsepower advantage.

It's a good-looking car too, though some say it looks like a motorized capybara. Little details like the chrome rings around the blacked-out tail lights and the twin sunroofs add up to lend the tC some much-needed charm, as the clean, chunky design follows the minimalist route in contrast to the old Celica's in-your-face styling.

Show the tC a corner and, like the Celica of old, it digs right in. It understeers a little too much at the limit for the most performance-oriented tastes, but what doesn't these days? At low speeds turn-in and grip seem especially tenacious, though. You could autocross this car.

In outright cornering grip the tC impresses, more so even than the Si, which was let down by its all-season tires (performance-oriented summer tires are offered on the Si as an optional extra). The ride quality is good overall. It's not sitting on particularly stiff springs and there's a lot of dive under braking, but the car's aggressive shock absorbers and anti-roll bar do a decent job keeping body roll in check.

Maybe the most appealing thing about the tC is the Scion performance catalog. Adding a Toyota Racing Development centrifugal supercharger, intake and exhaust kits, performance springs and a strut-brace bar, all available at your local Scion dealer, doesn't bring the cost out-of-line with the Cobalt SS S/C and Civic Si, and a souped-up Scion's performance would likely be as good or better.

You'd have to look to the aftermarket performance parts industry for a limited-slip differential for your ber tC, and from what we gathered driving the supercharged Cobalt, you'd need one.

In short: In many ways a worthy successor to the Celica; a solid chassis with unprecedented dealer-installed and warranty-friendly tuning potential.
 

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The Scion TC was pretty much my first choice when I was trading in my 02 civic EX. But that was untill I realized I could afford the Si. The TC was no more. It was history, a thing of the past. I'm glad I didn't get one though. Nothing but GIRLS drive those now. Just like the Tiburon.
 

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I think that paper may be from where I live.At first,I seen Log Cabin Democrat and figured there are probably many local papers with this name,but then I see the word "Conway",and I'm pretty sure this is my local paper.
 

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Oh man, that part about the Si gave me chills! I want to get in my Si now and go!! I'm at work though. Taking calls and helping the other Honda customers.
 

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I'm tired of hearing about the Si being compared in any way to the TC. I am just not a big believer in the Scion car. They are cheap, boring styling, and yes mainly girls drive them.

The Si is on a completely different level than the TC and always will be. It has real history (The Civic/CRX Si started it all with the japanese import compacts).

Also, comparing to the Cobalt is a joke. Yes, maybe those cars have certain advantages over the Civic Si - but buyers like me weren't interested in some new cheap models being put out by Toyota or Chevy, one looking like a cheap Celica and the other a replacement for the Cavalier. No, I wanted a Honda Civic, and even without the K20 I would have chosen it over any Cobalt or TC ever offered.

There are annoying problems to the Civics such as the interior quality, but I've been in both the TC and Cobalt and are no better there. The TC is cool looking I guess but is wear-prone. The Cobalt is just plain ugly and obviously a cheap Chevy.
 

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The Scion TC was pretty much my first choice when I was trading in my 02 civic EX. But that was untill I realized I could afford the Si. The TC was no more. It was history, a thing of the past. I'm glad I didn't get one though. Nothing but GIRLS drive those now. Just like the Tiburon.
No kidding lol. Or girly mans. I see atleast 6 tcs a day when I go out driving for an hour where I live. All of them slightly modified. They arnt a good looking car at first and its kinda chicky like, but when and if you modify that car, you can deffinetly make it look good.
 

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Great post. Thanks!

I'm more and more amazed by how good the Si is, with every other car I drive.

I drove a Lotus Elise last week for a whole day. It was great. But what struck me when I got back from vacation was just how close the Si feels for the price. No, it's not as good. It's not meant to be a hardcore track machine like the Elise. But the overall impression is remarkable. It's nearly as fun to drive, more comfortable and half the price.

The Scion's chassis can't handle the power the supercharger provides, anyway. Not a bad car, though.

Chevy Cobalt is not even in the same league.

I would include the VW GTI in this price range, given the fun and performance of it. I like it a lot, but wouldn't be as reliable as a Honda or Toyota.
 

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Scion

The argument for the TC is an argument for a muscle car. Simple Off the line
torque. More displacement. Bulky generic design for mass appeal. Fair handling. Dont we not buy these cars for the technology and a different
way of thinking? Isnt this argument for the TC the same as a v6 grand am
with a handling package? And the grand am whips the Tc in its considerd
strengh aginst the civic! Im sorry but a low reving, overly simple, "large
displacement" toyota dosent hold a candle on to either side of the sprectrom,
be it the Si or the american stuff. If I want trouque, I want 300ft pnds. If
I want revs and pwr vs displacement, I want a honda. Both are exciting
due to their radical strengths. But the tc is neither! Its a two door corola
with an improved suspension. The 3000.00 trd supercharger gives this car a
200ps rating the civic has with less displacement! And a 1993 camaro will
still mop it up "off the line" A Vtec sticker on a mustang would make me laugh,
and the idea of a Tc being good on torque does the same. If you realy
want to compare the real value of a Si and a Tc wait five years and see
resale value listings and how many Tc's are on used lots in a sea of averages
very mutch like itself. I have respect for a celica gts with its tech and style,
but to me the Tc is rental car boring and realy great at nothing. Most of the
uniqueness is ultimatly shallow and strange. Two sunroof's? Please, give me a break. The core of an exciting inport is in the drivetrain, pure and simple.
 

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Good read, I'd be interested in reading the cobalt review.
TheCabin.net ·· Altima Coupe and Chevy Cobalt reviewed 01/08/08

Altima Coupe and Chevy Cobalt reviewed

By JOE LAMB
LOG CABIN staff writer

It's almost that time of year when the tax man giveth back a portion of what he hath taken away. For many, this means it's new car season. But which new car is the best choice? Log Cabin Staff Writer Joe Lamb decided to find out by testing four of 2007's hottest offerings under $25,000, the Nissan Altima Coupe, Scion tC, Chevrolet Cobalt SS Supercharged and Honda Civic Si sedan. The Honda Civic Si and Scion tC were reviewed in Monday's edition.

This writer's opinions on the merits of each car are just that, his own opinions. They do not reflect those of the Log Cabin Democrat in any way.

Nissan Altima Coupe

It might not stop traffic, but Nissan's new Altima Coupe turned a few heads when it was introduced last year. It might be derived from the more stoic Altima sedan, but to the eyes the two share little design DNA. If the coupe and sedan share any body panels, they're awfully hard to spot.

Nissan also wisely chose to cut four inches from the wheelbase, making the car look, proportionally, very similar to its two-seater sportscar stablemate, the Nissan 350Z. You can even get an Altima coupe with an engine very similar the 350Z's 3.5 liter V-6, but for the purposes of this review we'll settle for the base model's 2.5-liter, 175-hp four.

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It's down on power in comparison with the Civic Si and Cobalt SS Supercharged, and weighing in at over 300 pounds heavier than the 160-hp Scion tC, it felt slower than it as well.

The Altima Coupe handles well, but the suspension's tuning is geared more for comfort than performance. There's quite a bit of body roll in the corners and pronounced dive under braking, but it doesn't feel out-of-place once you understand that, however similar to the 350Z it may look, it's an acorn not far removed from the Altima Sedan's tree.

After a few miles it's clear that Nissan didn't intend the Altima Coupe to be an expensive sports coupe as much as a cut-rate grand tourer; a car to cover long distances comfortably and fairly briskly. If you won't leave for work without a dose of scalding coffee brimming in your lucky mug, the Altima Coupe's the only safe option of the four.

It's easily the most comfortable car tested, with the widest range of interior goodies and gadgets on the option list, including a button on the steering wheel that dials the car into the driver's bluetooth-equipped cellphone. The interior design is sophisticated and sober, with supportive but plush seats and an attractive dashboard. Like most of Nissan's cars, the Altima Coupe's interior wouldn't look out of place in a much more expensive car.

A base-model Altima Coupe starts out at $20,490, but click every option box on a 2.5-liter coupe and you'll be flirting with the $30,000 mark. That money will get you a base-model 350Z, remember. Some automotive journalists have questioned Nissan's wisdom in offering the two similarly sized and priced coupes side-by-side, but we think they appeal to very different customers who ask very different things of their cars.

The car tested was fitted with Nissan's continuously variable transmission with pre-selected ratios for "manumatic" shifting. If you want to wring every drop of performance from the car a manual transmission would be a better choice, but in manual mode the transmission upshifts immediately and smoothly and, best of all, smooths equally brisk downshifts with a computer-controlled blip of the throttle. It's a shame all "manumatic" transmissions aren't as good.

In short: Upwardly mobile young go-getters would find the Altima Coupe a worthy and sophisticated stepping-stone to their inevitable BMW 3 series, though it doesn't suit the palate of the enthusiast driver. But why should it? Nissan already has that base covered with the not necessarily more expensive, rear-drive Z.

Chevrolet Cobalt SS Supercharged


From the earliest press releases announcing the arrival of the Cobalt SS/SC, Chevrolet's PR crew made it clear that the current crop of Japanese sports coupes would have a fight on their hands.

Its predecessor, the Chevy Cavalier, was often the victim of Fast and Furious-ish bodykits and dreadful wings, but nobody took the decades-old design seriously as a performance car. Can the new one really be the pocket rocket GM's been striving for ever since the quick but breakdown-prone Chevy Cosworth Vega of the mid '70s?

The Cavalier may be gone, but it's the late model Cavalier's Ecotec engine, in 2.0-liter supercharged form, that's lurking under the hood of the Cobalt SS/SC.

Did the spirit of the old Cavalier cross over into the new Cobalt along with the engine? Happily, it did not. If the Cavalier was a three-legged milk cow, the Cobalt SS/SC is Secretariat.

It's better in almost every way. It doesn't creak like a submarine hull approaching crush depth when you put one wheel onto a curb and the doors shut with a "thud" rather than a "thwack." Also, where the Cavalier managed the rare and unsavory trick of being a lightweight car that drove like a heavy one, the Cobalt feels light on its feet and very, very eager to change direction, but more on handling later.

What truly saves the Cobalt SS/SC from the ghost of Chevies past lurks under the hood. The Ecotec engine may boast 21st century sophistication to rival the best Toyota, Mitsubishi and Nissan can bolt together, but it's a tasty morsel right out of the good old bag of American go-fast tricks that makes this the fastest car of the four.

You might have guessed by the name, but in case you missed it, this sucker's got a blower.

The roots-type supercharger's high-pitched, mechanical whine drowns out all other engine noise, but knowing how much power it adds you'd never get tired of it. The high-pressure air the supercharger crams into the engine sends 205 horsepower to the front wheels. No spectral Cavalier, not even the range-topping Cavalier Z24 with its 3.1 liter V-6, could keep up.

In this group test it quickly comes down to the Cobalt vs. the Civic. It's sushi vs. a Texas cheesesteak sandwich, and the tale of the tape puts the Honda in the underdog's corner. In a drag race the Cobalt's whopping (four a four banger) 200 lb-ft of torque would easily dust the Honda of it's back, but outright power alone shouldn't be the final word when comparing road cars.

On the road, the Cobalt feels less sophisticated than the Honda. The ride is a little harsher and though the chassis feels rock-solid, there's the impression that it's not all bolted together with quite the precision of its import rival. But here's a shocking claim that forgives a number of faults: it handles better than the Civic.

Yes. You heard it here first. Chevrolet has put together a better sports coupe chassis than Honda. In corners the Cobalt feels totally obedient with a neutral, deliciously throttle-adjustable balance. Lifting off the throttle mid-corner tightens the cornering line and trail braking eliminates all understeer. You can even give it the old "Scandinavian flick" (if you have to ask...) for a few seconds of opposite-lock oversteer if you're of a mind to.

When the Cobalt SS S/C was launched for the 2005 model year, GM vice chairman Bob Lutz, the grizzled old man of star-spangled performance cars who's proven as comfortable in the boardrooms of the "Big Three" as he is on his 200-mph Suzuki Hayabusa or near-supersonic L-39 Albatross attack jet, said the Cobalt would take the best Japan could throw at it, chew it up and spit it out like a plug of to'baccy, and the engineers in charge of fine-tuning the chassis clearly took note; it's superb.

It's a shame the folks working in whatever dank Motown sub-basement the Cobalt's steering came from never got the memo. The steering is utterly without feel or feedback. It'd be right at home in a Cadillac Cimarron. Even the cheap-feeling, tastelessly styled steering wheel is a letdown considering how well-executed the rest of the interior is.

Also dissappointing was the lack of a limited-slip differential, which is offered as an optional extra. Powering out of the same corners the Cobalt so deftly dove into was an exercise in frustration as all that full-fat, supercharged power went to waste by furiously and noisily spinning up the inside front tire.

But at the end of the day, Bob Lutz can take his hotrod jet out for a celebratory barrel roll, because GM has done it. In the field of Japanese hotrods the Cobalt stands apart. It's an outsider with lots of guts and a factory supercharger, and if it represents the opening salvo in a war between us Yanks and the Japanese for the hot import market segment, then let the games begin.

Here's something else for the Japanese carmakers to chew on: Late in October the Cobalt SS Turbo was unveiled, and for a compact front-wheel drive coupe, the power promised by the turbo is almost vulgar: 260 horsepower and 260 lb-ft. So far, only Alfa Romeo's been audacious enough to dump that kind of power on the front wheels. Details, including the Turbo's price, are scarce, but they say it's set a new front-wheel-drive coupe record at Germany's benchmark Nurburgring racetrack.

In short: A great engine and an involving chassis can forgive a multitude of faults. The Cobalt SS S/C is chock full of all three, and it's a blast to drive. But should you buy it knowing that GM's got a bigger fish waiting in the pond, and it's a lunker?

(A special thanks to Conway's Superior Chevrolet, Honda World, Superior Nissan and Caldwell Toyota/Scion for graciously providing vehicles for this review. Staff Writer Joe Lamb can be reached at 505-1238 or by e-mail at [email protected].)
 

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TheCabin.net ·· Altima Coupe and Chevy Cobalt reviewed 01/08/08

In a drag race the Cobalt's whopping (four a four banger) 200 lb-ft of torque would easily dust the Honda of it's back, but outright power alone shouldn't be the final word when comparing road cars.

But here's a shocking claim that forgives a number of faults: it handles better than the Civic.

Yes. You heard it here first. Chevrolet has put together a better sports coupe chassis than Honda.
This has to be one of the most irresponsible and ridiculous articles I've read in a long time. Obviously sounds like someone trying to create hype for American cars, probably someone working at GM or something.

Did they even actually race the cars at a dragstrip, before proclaiming the Cobalt "would easily dust the Honda of it's back". HAHAHAHA you must be kidding me. The SS may edge it slightly on a 1/4 mile but not by much, certainly not as easily as this lame article says it does.

And no absolute chance the Cobalt handles better than the Si. That would be a first from anything I've ever read comparing the cars. The Si is one of the best out-of-the box autocrossers you can get today, and maybe the best handling front wheel drive car out there right now. Complete joke that a Cavalier (ahem, Cobalt) has a better chassis.
 

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Thank you -- lets see some lap times. I can claim a certain car is faster but until it is proven, its all talk. First off, the Cobalt SS has a horrible drive train, and it has no LSD. That means if you stomp on it in the corners, your screwed. The Si has unanimously been said to be the most neutral car on the market with minimal under steer at the limit. First time I heard under steer was uncontrollable lol on the Si. It has been proven that the Si is actually quicker in a straight line, and there isn't a large gap between the straight line performance of either car. In terms of handling? Your joking right? A car that shares the same chassis as the Type R? A FWD car with 200 ft/pds of torque and no LSD is not going to corner as well as a low torque FWD vehicle w/ an LSD. Its simple. And they are planning on launching a 260 horse FWD car? lol lets see how that will turn out.
 

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Why is it that most people that now have an Si considered the tC before? I was one of those LoL but I ran out of the dealership as I saw the tC had crappy performance compared to a Type S or Si
 

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I considered a tC when shopping around, but I heard about the TERRIBLE gas mileage tC's get compared to the Si. More tq = More gas, its gotta come from somewhere. For putting around town the Si has plenty of tq, when I want to get on it the Si delivers, AND i get good gas mileage while doing it.
 

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I considered a tC when shopping around, but I heard about the TERRIBLE gas mileage tC's get compared to the Si. More tq = More gas, its gotta come from somewhere. For putting around town the Si has plenty of tq, when I want to get on it the Si delivers, AND i get good gas mileage while doing it.
I was in the same boat as you. What turned me off was that my cousin already had a TC so I didn't want the same car. And since I had a high revving car before my SI (XRS) I wanted something similar. But as for gas mileage, I think we could get almost the same, my cousin gets around 30mpg but that is driving conservative and not pounding the gas everytime.
 
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