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Old 09-02-2016, 08:40 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Front Camber Question

Hi all, quick question:

My new coilovers have an elongated upper bolt hole where the strut mounts to the knuckle. This allows for camber adjustment using just the factory bolt instead of a camber bolt. Currently, I have the adjustment "bottomed-out" at max negative camber. I haven't taken it in for an alignment yet, but I'm sure I'll need to take some of the camber out.

My question is, will my camber setting be ok on that elongated hole? It seems to me that it would be easy for the camber setting to change if the bolt slides a little bit under extreme loads. I'm not worried about daily driving, but track abuse. I am thinking about welding a washer on so that it can't move, and running camber bolts to make my adjustments. Thoughts?

Thanks,
Eric

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Old 09-02-2016, 09:06 AM   #2 (permalink)
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It will be fine. And also, the more front camber the better. Toe wears out tires, not camber.

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Old 09-02-2016, 09:32 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Thanks. I'm not worried about tire wear at all. But I'm pretty sure I'm well over -3 currently, maybe even -4. It's not a track-only car by any means, so I'd like to reel it in to something a bit more realistic. -2.5-3 would be ideal.
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Old 09-02-2016, 04:53 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Ya, -4 is a bit much lol. -2.5 sounds about right.
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Old 09-12-2016, 11:07 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Do you have top hat adjustment also? Just the elongated hole alone with stock bolt gets you to about -1.5-2.0*. Depending on the coilover brand.

And as long as the bolts are tightened to spec or more, they won't slip. No matter the driving.
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Old 09-14-2016, 11:18 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightymousetech View Post
It will be fine. And also, the more front camber the better. Toe wears out tires, not camber.
Camber WILL wear tires. Caster has no effect on tire wear.

Negative camber wears the inside of the tire and positive the outside. although positive camber is rare.
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Old 09-15-2016, 07:24 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mattm0812 View Post
Do you have top hat adjustment also? Just the elongated hole alone with stock bolt gets you to about -1.5-2.0*. Depending on the coilover brand.

And as long as the bolts are tightened to spec or more, they won't slip. No matter the driving.
Yep, I've got the camber plates mounted at 45 angles pointing inward and rearward. I have them maxed out so they give me additional camber AND caster. Just eyeballing it, the camber looks to be -3 or more. I'll get it aligned soon and will know for sure.
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Old 09-15-2016, 11:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I run around -3 daily with no issues. The camber should not change as long as everything is tightened to spec even under heavy load. you can do the poor man alignment yourself. I've done my last 3 and she drives straight as an arrow.
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Old 09-16-2016, 11:20 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue4dr View Post
Camber WILL wear tires. Caster has no effect on tire wear.

Negative camber wears the inside of the tire and positive the outside. although positive camber is rare.
Technically camber does wear tires, but not as much as everyone thinks it does. Toe is what really what wears tires quickly. But, for example, if a vehicle has -3* of camber all around and has their toe properly adjusted, the tires will last about the same life of a vehicle with 0* of camber all around and toe properly adjusted. Of course the tire brand, size, how the driver handles the car, etc all play affect of how tires last.

But when you have someone who slams their car and never gets an alignment, they most likely have uneven camber all around and toe that is waay out of wack so their tires don't stand a chance. Hence is why everyone thinks camber is what kills tires. When toe is actually the culprit.
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Old 09-16-2016, 11:20 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattm0812 View Post
Technically camber does wear tires, but not as much as everyone thinks it does. Toe is what really what wears tires quickly. But, for example, if a vehicle has -3* of camber all around and has their toe properly adjusted, the tires will last about the same life of a vehicle with 0* of camber all around and toe properly adjusted. Of course the tire brand, size, how the driver handles the car, etc all play affect of how tires last.

But when you have someone who slams their car and never gets an alignment, they most likely have uneven camber all around and toe that is waay out of wack so their tires don't stand a chance. Hence is why everyone thinks camber is what kills tires. When toe is actually the culprit.
I understand what you're saying; but doesn't the fact that the weight of the car only riding on, let's say the inner half of the tire, wear only the inner side of the tire.

Bad toe causes the tires to scrub against the road, the cause of premature wear. Most of the time that's like a feathered or scalped effect
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Old 09-19-2016, 03:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue4dr View Post
I understand what you're saying; but doesn't the fact that the weight of the car only riding on, let's say the inner half of the tire, wear only the inner side of the tire.

Bad toe causes the tires to scrub against the road, the cause of premature wear. Most of the time that's like a feathered or scalped effect
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Yes, technically. But the technicality to actuality ratio is not 1 to 1 here.

When camber starts getting excessive (past -4 to -5* degrees) is when I start to see abnormal wear on the inside of the tire. Also, when having excessive camber, the toe adjustment is much more sensitive. Obviously when one gets an alignment, it is damn near impossible to actually have the adjustments shown on the rack to reflect when driving the car. The adjustment will always change within certain parameters. When having "proper" camber, these minor toe adjustments do not start to eat the tires away so quickly.

So when people say, "I've had -10* camber and my tires wear the same as a stock suspension vehicle" well that's bs. Because no matter how the good the alignment, you are still going to see inner wear. A fraction compared to toe wear, but still there.

So yes, having 0 toe does not mean any amounts of camber is fine.
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Old 09-20-2016, 05:30 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue4dr View Post
Camber WILL wear tires. Caster has no effect on tire wear.



Negative camber wears the inside of the tire and positive the outside. although positive camber is rare.


Camber has only a tiny affect on tire wear.

When you have excessive toe, you are literally dragging the tire sideways across the pavement.

Only 1/8 inch of toe misalignment front or rear produces the equivalent wear of scrubbing the tires sideways 28 feet for every mile traveled.
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