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Old 01-15-2014, 06:51 PM   #1 (permalink)
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to Water/meth or not to water/meth?

Hi guys,

I have been pondering the idea of install water/meth on my car. Looking for a bit more power and cooler intake temps... What are your $0.02?

setup is as follows;

KW Kit with DW65c
Skunk2 TB
Custom 3" intake
Skunk2 Megapower Header
Full-Race Cat-back.

I made 380whp/240wtq.

I would install the AEM W/M kit.

To do or not to do?

Cheers

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Old 01-16-2014, 05:29 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I installed the AEM system on my car as E85 is not readily available & it works a treat got an extra 50 HP on the dyno could actually see the IAT drop as the revs went higher, I have just upgraded to a C38 but have not put it on the dyno as yet

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Old 01-16-2014, 09:20 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Meth/ water injection is the best thing you can do to a f/i car, however if you tune for power make sure it is on the rich side. Just in case the pump/ selenoid fail. Id say do it, especially if you live in a warm climate.
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Old 01-19-2014, 04:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoddy View Post
I installed the AEM system on my car as E85 is not readily available & it works a treat got an extra 50 HP on the dyno could actually see the IAT drop as the revs went higher, I have just upgraded to a C38 but have not put it on the dyno as yet
Nice, good to know. Same here, 94oct is the best I can get and even then it can contain up to 10% of ethanol.

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Originally Posted by PoonSlayer69 View Post
Meth/ water injection is the best thing you can do to a f/i car, however if you tune for power make sure it is on the rich side. Just in case the pump/ selenoid fail. Id say do it, especially if you live in a warm climate.
Yeah, I dont think there is a losing side to doing this! I'll get on it and get it re-tuned!
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Old 01-21-2014, 08:27 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Get Vit to build in the failsafe when you have it tuned. It watches your IAT and if it gets too high (say over 130 F) which probably means you lost your W/M flow, then he has the tune dump a bunch of fuel and backs off the timing to keep you safer. Some kind of indicator telling you the system is flowing is a good idea, and an AFR gauge is good too - if you are running lean while boosting, something is up and you can check into it.

With the power you are working with, I'm guessing Vit will want you to find a ridiculously huge nozzle flow rate...I'm at 15 gal/hr on my little M62! So you may need multiple nozzles, or get one custom machined.

W/M probably provides better cooling and power than aftercooler, but it does need to be watched more carefully. Think of it as the "turbo" of cooling
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Old 01-23-2014, 07:38 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Get Vit to build in the failsafe when you have it tuned. It watches your IAT and if it gets too high (say over 130 F) which probably means you lost your W/M flow, then he has the tune dump a bunch of fuel and backs off the timing to keep you safer. Some kind of indicator telling you the system is flowing is a good idea, and an AFR gauge is good too - if you are running lean while boosting, something is up and you can check into it.

With the power you are working with, I'm guessing Vit will want you to find a ridiculously huge nozzle flow rate...I'm at 15 gal/hr on my little M62! So you may need multiple nozzles, or get one custom machined.

W/M probably provides better cooling and power than aftercooler, but it does need to be watched more carefully. Think of it as the "turbo" of cooling

Yeah, Fail safe is a good idea.

Aftercooler is not really for my application... But it is a great way too cool it.
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Old 01-26-2014, 02:25 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Hah, having an AFR guage paid off (again) today. I saw my ratio running higher than normal at boost (15's) so laid off of it and checked it out today. Loose AN hose fitting was leaking w/m fluid enough to show up on the AFR. Quick fix, back in business.
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Old 01-26-2014, 05:25 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Hah, having an AFR guage paid off (again) today. I saw my ratio running higher than normal at boost (15's) so laid off of it and checked it out today. Loose AN hose fitting was leaking w/m fluid enough to show up on the AFR. Quick fix, back in business.
Nice catch!!! Will most likely get AFR gauge when I do w/m.
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Old 02-03-2014, 12:21 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Which kit are you running Jrickerm? I'm looking at the AIS kit, but I can get the snow for really cheap..
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Old 02-03-2014, 01:47 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Mine is completely custom built from scratch, but if I was to buy one it would have been AIS, so you're on the right track IMO.
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Old 02-03-2014, 04:14 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info.
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Old 03-12-2014, 08:47 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I picked up an 07 civic sedan si last year im looking to boost in the future, However I do have a 95 del sol ive been working on with a h22 supercharged that I just put the AIS water meth kit on, I should be tuning it here soon, Ive been very interested in the k guys setups with watermeth, I was hitting like 170 deg iats without water meth and stopped making power at 200whp. The h22 is 11.5:1 com with 9psi jrsc on it and id1000s on e85
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Old 03-12-2014, 11:24 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I never get IATs above 100 deg F even on road racing track days when I'm beating the crap out of my motor during 25 minutes sessions. Requires a LOT of W/M mix though...

The key seems to be finding the right nozzle size to prevent temps from climbing during boost.

Start with your biggest nozzle (most LHP or GPH), record your IATs (not sure what kind of datalogging you have with your h22) and see if they climb or drop during a WOT pull. Don't worry about spraying too much W/M mix - you basically can't, and the worst that happens is the motor bogs down, but no damage at all is done. So start big!

You may find that you will need multiple nozzles to provide enough flow - add a T and keep going. But with e85 maybe you won't need as much - I don't have any experience with that fuel!

200+ WHP on a little del sol is awesome, that must be a blast to whip around in.
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Old 03-13-2014, 11:59 AM   #14 (permalink)
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So generally how much math is consumed while driving. If I were to throw it in my setup how much would I be using? I'm at 383 on a jrsc ported and coated with cooler and bunch of supporting.
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Old 03-13-2014, 12:17 PM   #15 (permalink)
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So generally how much math is consumed while driving. If I were to throw it in my setup how much would I be using? I'm at 383 on a jrsc ported and coated with cooler and bunch of supporting.
Nothing at all unless you boost. But then it goes fast. For DD I can go for a month with only a gallon of mix. That's about 4 minutes of WOT. But since a typical pull is only 10-15 seconds that's a lot of boosting!

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Old 03-13-2014, 12:26 PM   #16 (permalink)
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So in my case, I luckily don't have to DD my car anymore. So generally when I take it out, it's only for a little while and I'll get on it every now and then but not much WOT. How much do math kits generally run around, and how is the install?
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Old 03-13-2014, 02:18 PM   #17 (permalink)
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$350 for a decent kit, maybe a bit more for extra nozzles or bigger tanks but doesn't sound like you would need more fluid capacity. You have a cooler already? Venom or aftercooler? Install on this is pretty simple - a few electrical connections is the hardest part, but if you've done any of the other work on your setup then this will be easy.
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Old 03-13-2014, 02:34 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Yea I have the aftercooler, and I wired up the relay and pump by myself just with diagrams. Pretty straight forward. What kit would you recommend, and is there an install guide on the forums?
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Old 03-15-2014, 10:32 AM   #19 (permalink)
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All the big names have some good components, so no particular recommendation. No install guides that I'm aware of but I bet the instructions with any of the kits would be fine.

If at all possible with your intake, point the nozze so it sprays right into the throttle body (like on the elbow). Seems to work better here than farther away from the TB.
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Old 03-30-2014, 02:53 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrickerm View Post
I never get IATs above 100 deg F even on road racing track days when I'm beating the crap out of my motor during 25 minutes sessions. Requires a LOT of W/M mix though...

The key seems to be finding the right nozzle size to prevent temps from climbing during boost.

Start with your biggest nozzle (most LHP or GPH), record your IATs (not sure what kind of datalogging you have with your h22) and see if they climb or drop during a WOT pull. Don't worry about spraying too much W/M mix - you basically can't, and the worst that happens is the motor bogs down, but no damage at all is done. So start big!

You may find that you will need multiple nozzles to provide enough flow - add a T and keep going. But with e85 maybe you won't need as much - I don't have any experience with that fuel!

200+ WHP on a little del sol is awesome, that must be a blast to whip around in.
yeah its pretty fun, the e85 doesnt seem to do much with my iats becuase the sensor is upstream of the injectors and the hondata s300 pulls timing and fuel at 170deg iats, I have the dual nozzle setup and Rodney hooked me up with a few different nozzles to try, My goal is 350whp with my del sol it was barley starting to get going, I could change the settings in the ignition compensation and fuel comp parapmeters in the s300 to allow me to keep running at the higher temps but I figured id play it safer, Im hoping to see a big difference when I go back to tune again, I have the s300 which is pretty much the same as the flashpro, I will definately be playing around with it more this summer!

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