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Old 04-24-2019, 12:01 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Stock Tune K.Control at 100

Hey everyone, I just purchased a used FP for my 2009 fa5 and have been taking "before" logs to familiarize myself with what I can see and to establish a baseline in case I see things I don't like on a tune in the future. I haven't been doing dedicated WOT pulls or anything, just normal driving, including several healthy passes in the 60 - 90 mph range so far. Currently the car is 100% stock as far as the engine is concerned. I always fill up with ethanol free 91 except in extenuating circumstances, which I haven't had lately. As I have been logging I noticed that the K.Control parameter is pegged at 100%, and only occasionally it will fall slowly before jumping back up. In my drives to work the lowest I logged was 77%, and that was for just a couple minutes before jumping back to 100%. This afternoon I filled (2/3 tank) up with 93 instead of 91 to attempt to get it to fall and after driving ~15 miles I took a short log of a trip to the store. The basic result is the same, possibly dropping a little quicker, but still jumping back to 100 quickly. I'm inclined to thing the cooler engine as well as outdoor temps were a factor. In looking at the datalog information I have not been able to find any other signals that correspond to the jumps other than there is usually a throttle lift or feather in areas that it jumps, but that is only "usually" not "always". Since I have not flashed the ECU with anything yet the K.Count values are not available. The K.Retard value typically holds zero, but does jump quickly up to values as high as 10deg, these jumps don't seem to correspond to increases in K.Control so I'm not sure how useful they are. Generally I have been struggling to find anyone looking at data logs of the stock tune to see if any of this could be classified as "weird but normal" and I would love to hear a variety of opinions.

My current best guess is that I am picking up road noise due to the extremely excessive amounts of pavement damage still being repaired after this winter, I have also noticed a healthy "clunk" in my passenger side front that may be making the road quality an even bigger problem. I have ordered springs/shocks/struts/bushings for all 4 corners so I am planning to install them once they have arrived. I will do a better examination once the car is disassembled to make sure I have fixed the clunk, but I am still suspicious that I would be getting such high values for something not directly connected to the engine. I haven't really looked closely at my engine mounts, and at 120K it may be time so I am planning to look at that next time I have a few minutes alone with the car.

The point of this post is to ask if anyone has any insight about these values, or the stock tune in general. I would love to have a reason for this, especially since it looks like quite a few tunes will modify or desensitize the knock detection parameters, and I don't have enough tuning experience to know if the knock detection has been tampered with on a tune before i apply it. I have been planning to program with the Stock-Tuned basemaps included as a starting point but i want to get my arms around this if possible before proceeding. Thank you everyone ahead of time, I can't wait to hear from the group.

P.s. see log files attached ( I hope ) #9 is driving to store, #10 is driving home.

Attached Files
File Type: fpdl datalog0009.fpdl (1.86 MB, 7 views)
File Type: fpdl datalog0010.fpdl (1.87 MB, 6 views)

Last edited by MisterBek; 04-24-2019 at 12:03 AM. Reason: 90 mps is way faster than 90 mph
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Old 04-25-2019, 01:03 AM   #2 (permalink)
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No love? Not even haters to tell me to hurry up and hire an e tuner? I'm going to log my commute again tomorrow to see how everything looks with my higher blend and report back.

I looked at my engine mounts this morning and nothing is obviously loose from above. I haven't been under the car yet though so who knows what I'll find down there.

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Old 04-27-2019, 08:06 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Progress report: I've continued to log and analyze data and I think that I do have at least some valid knocking being detected to drive my knock control value up. Looking at things like IAT and MAP when the k.control jumps or knock retards and the trend would tend to indicate that they're more likely to happen when conditions are favorable for knock.

Unfortunately, the ECU doesn't output knock counts to be logged when stock. I am considering flashing the stock equivalent tune so that I have access to the knock count parameter, but I have read in a few places that the tune is prone to knocking. At this point I'm suspecting that the stock ECU is as well, but nobody has made a stink because the count isn't reported. Does anyone know what the effects would be of retarding the ignition tables a couple degrees (like, 2-4, just to give k.retard a head start) across the board? I could obviously spot retard too, but it looks pretty widespread so I am considering this drastic approach mainly over concerns about the stock equivalent tune.

In the mean time I've taken a step back and I'm going to do plugs and valve lash adjustment. Being as I bought the car used I'm coming to terms with the thought it may not have been done on schedule and both could be contributors. I would like to get a tune with k.count output on the car before so I can measure improvements if any as I catch up on maint.

Thoughts?
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Old 04-27-2019, 08:44 PM   #4 (permalink)
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After re evaluating if I only look at peaks in knock retard (or more specifically just before peaks) that correspond with large jumps in k.control the majority of these occur in the cells highlighted, and very usually on the 30 degree low cam table. Looking at the stock equivalent table it looks like hondata has seen something similar, because there's a valley already present. For my initial tune I'm going to specifically drop that area an additional degree of advance and log some data
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Old 04-27-2019, 11:59 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Anyone with experience plz give input!

I flashed the engine with what is described above, let the car warm fully, and went for a drive, logging. I drove around for 5-8 minutes and registered what I would consider quite a few knocks, although I was poking the bear as it were. That file is log number 0004.

I pulled over and pulled a couple more degrees out of the ignition advance low table, one degree from 2500 - 3500 rpm and another all of the way from 2250 - 4000 rpm, all at 30deg cam angle, for all columns based on my first drive. That's when the unexpected began. On the drive back to my house I had a similar knock count, but I felt like I had SIGNIFICANTLY more power and throttle response in that range. The way I understsand ignition, reducing spark advance should only add power if you're way out of bounds. I need to compare more tomorrow, but I think the majority of my knocks in this log were at cam angles below 30deg. I have a feeling that my new found throttle response had me acting a little exuberantly and I caught it off it's typical angle. I'm desperately looking for any indication that removing timing like this is likely to damage my engine based on what I am seeing.

Of course, I was making plenty of knock so my K.Control parameter jumped quickly from 55 to 100 and it more or less stayed there over the duration of both logs.
Attached Files
File Type: fpdl datalog0004.fpdl (1.71 MB, 6 views)
File Type: fpdl datalog0005.fpdl (1.44 MB, 2 views)
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