staggered setup on 06 si???

[petes]

hi guys,

i'm new to this forum and i just wanted to find out if anyone ever considered doing a staggered setup on their si??

i've been thinking about a 19x8.5 front, 19x9.5 rear setup. i know that staggered setup are usually on rear wheels drive cars, but i think that it would compliment the shape of the si nicely.

does anyone know if this would work?? will the 9.5 fit in the rear??

thanks for your comments.

petes

[Jay Kincannon]

Don't think so. The biggest tire I've seen on this site was a 245/40-18 and had some rubbing problems with the car lowered. Also, not sure you can get a full turn with 8.5 width on the front. You will need some type of wheel stops. By the way, welcome to 8th Civic Forum and as I like to say " Welcome to the money pit".

[TampaSi07]

It will make the car slower and handle worse but if all you care about are looks then go for it.

[1chin3s3_b0i]

i think you should put the wider tires in front!...and 9.5 is pretty extreme..prepare for rolling the fenders and spacers!

[NHBP07]

For real, if you are going to do it, at least make it logical and have the wider tires up front. I think 19s might be way to big for it though, 17s or 18s could look decent

[ILL FG2]

The general concensus here is that no one likes staggered setups... I'm into VW's, so I can understand it.

A 9.5 will fit in back... Definitely not in front. I put on an 18x9.5 +55 on the back and it was flush with the fender, but it was rubbing on the shock. If you ran +45 it should fit, but you'd have to run a 225 or maybe a 235. That was also an 18, so you might have to go even lower on the offset and down to an even smaller tire for it to fit.

[petes]

dang! this seems likes it would be alot of problems! i think i will just go with 18 or 19x7.5 all the way around..

thanks for the suggestion! i think that i am gonna like this website alot. there is so much to learn! :SHOCKED:

[ILL FG2]

Originally Posted by petes

dang! this seems likes it would be alot of problems! i think i will just go with 18 or 19x7.5 all the way around..

thanks for the suggestion! i think that i am gonna like this website alot. there is so much to learn! :SHOCKED:

Regardless of 18 or 19, an 8 or 8.5 inch wide will fit... Anything above that may be pushing it.

[e60.deluxe]

putting wider on fronts is also stupid because your adding grip to the front tires. unless you have a 911 (lol RR) you never want to add grip to the front tires. youll just artificially move the center of gravity up front during cornering.

[ILL FG2]

that is not true at all... Wider front tires will induce oversteer to counteract the FF car's natural understeer.

And putting wider front tires on a porsche is even more retarded... Those things need as much rear tire as they can get.

[e60.deluxe]

umm, i think you have things backwards...

front wheel drive cars have a problem of overcoming the moment of inertia on the front end. adding more grip to the front tires than the back tires will worsen this.

while the car is turning more grippy front tires will help, but to get into the turn, less grip on the front is more desirable.

porsche's are rear heavy. the engine sits right on the rear ale. novice drivers find the car very twitchy because the front end has relativley little grip. adding grip to the front tires keeps the front end in check. it was a trick for novice porsche drivers back in the day before TCS to deflate the front tires a little.

[ILL FG2]

You still aren't making any sense. Having a bigger front tire will give much better turn in, and since the front drives the car, the greater front grip helps pull the car through the turns. What you are saying is that understeer is good to get into a turn. If anything, you'd want initial oversteer to get into a turn. Look at the spoon racecar, they are running a much larger front tire, with great results.

And as for the porsche comment, you still have me lost. It would be foolish to think that you would want a larger front tire on a RR car. While the rear would be more predictable, the car would corner significantly slower. Perhaps you're talking about a non-staggered setup, similar to what s2000 drivers do?

[e60.deluxe]

Originally Posted by ILL FG2

You still aren't making any sense. Having a bigger front tire will give much better turn in, and since the front drives the car, the greater front grip helps pull the car through the turns. What you are saying is that understeer is good to get into a turn. If anything, you'd want initial oversteer to get into a turn. Look at the spoon racecar, they are running a much larger front tire, with great results.

no, im not saying understeer, im talking about moment of inertia. this means whats is the resistance for the car to change direction. FWD cars have high moment of inertia for the front of the car. grippier tires in the front dont help any. its precisley why mid-rear engine cars like an elise or a cayman handle much better than front mid engine cars like the S2000, even though cars like the S2000 have 50/50 weight balance. TBQH the civic is my first performnace oriented FWD car, ive had only ownership and experience with RWD cars in the past. its been 2 months. but perhaps the front tires being wider are better suited to the professional driver? idk.

And as for the porsche comment, you still have me lost. It would be foolish to think that you would want a larger front tire on a RR car. While the rear would be more predictable, the car would corner significantly slower. Perhaps you're talking about a non-staggered setup, similar to what s2000 drivers do?

when you accelerate, there is a load transfer to part of the car where the engine is. in 911's, this means the back. the back is already rear heavy, but now its even more rear heavy. the front tires have little contact with the road.

lets say your coming to a curve the car can take flat out. you try to turn the steering but you dont see a proper response in the car. so you let off the gas. now the car slows down and theres a load transfer to the front wheels, the tires have mroe grip than and bam, instant oversteer. this is called 'snap oversteer'. pros know what to do, but novices crash. a way to reduce this is to increase the grip of the front tires. this reduces the 'snap'

there was another ameture tactic which was to let off the gas before the turn, and mash the pedal out of the turn. there was a cute little rhyme for it but it espaces me right now..

now, i think there is a misunderstanding here. im not talking about fine tuning here. tires arent the only thing that can effect traction. car makers tune the suspension as well. im only talking about ameture tweaks here. if the Si is set up a certain way, dont go changing it without proper investigation. the 911 thing was more of a little joke from back when people would keep crashing their 911s before TCS.

[2000civic]

I agree with IllFG2. If you have larger front tires on a front wheel drive car, it will pull the car through the corners better. Think about it, the more grip to the front the better. In a FF the front tires not only need to steer the car, but also pull the car, therefore they need more traction, especially in turns otherwise they will understeer. This is also why in FF cars the spring rates in the rear are stiffer than in the front, and why they use front spoilers not rear ones. You want the rear to have less traction than the front to artifically induce oversteer, before entering a turn. Then while going through the turn after the oversteer has been induced by the rear having less traction and stiffer suspention, the front wheels with more grip will pull the car though the turn.

As for the RWD, when most RWD cars spin out, I am guessing 90% of the time they applied to much throttle, the rear tires lost grip, and the car spun. This is why rear wheel drive cars spring rates are lower in the rear, and they have spoilers to add downforce to keep the rear planted.

[e60.deluxe]

well, i do see both of yours point. like i said, i dont know FWD that much. thats just what made sense to me.

Originally Posted by 2000civic

As for the RWD, when most RWD cars spin out, I am guessing 90% of the time they applied to much throttle, the rear tires lost grip, and the car spun. This is why rear wheel drive cars spring rates are lower in the rear, and they have spoilers to add downforce to keep the rear planted.

i guarantee you this is not the case in 911s. snap oversteer is when when you lift off the throttle and the traction shoots to the front tires. go look up 'snap oversteer' and see how often 911s are mentioned. Rear engine, more throttle = more grip at the back.

[2000civic]

Originally Posted by e60.deluxe

well, i do see both of yours point. like i said, i dont know FWD that much. thats just what made sense to me.



i guarantee you this is not the case in 911s. snap oversteer is when when you lift off the throttle and the traction shoots to the front tires. go look up 'snap oversteer' and see how often 911s are mentioned. Rear engine, more throttle = more grip at the back.

Yea that does make sence for the 911 in that case. I forgot the engine was not located in the front. When I posted the RWD thing I was thinking about RWD in general, witch I ussually think of as being front motor. I forgot you guys were talking about the 911, my bad.

[homeboyv]

Originally Posted by petes

dang! this seems likes it would be alot of problems! i think i will just go with 18 or 19x7.5 all the way around..

thanks for the suggestion! i think that i am gonna like this website alot. there is so much to learn! :SHOCKED:

id say go with 18x8.5 with a 45 offset....will look nice and should not cause any rubbing issues but anything above that will probably give u problems...