Hub Centric Rings - Do they work?

skyflier1971 · 05-08-2007, 10:36 AM

OK, I've seen several threads on 8thcivic about hub centric rings. I found a thread where a guy used them and still had a vibration with the rings installed. I've found tons of post where members are saying you should use them. And, I've found lots of post where members say use the plastic rings and not aluminum.

Maybe I've over looked it but, I've yet to see anyone state that installing the hub centric rings actually cured the after-market wheel vibration. I've just installed after-market wheels on my Si. They have been re-balanced three times in the past two days by two different high quality balancing machines. But, I still get a bad vibration at speeds above 50mph and 65+ will vibrate you off the road.

I didn't have this vibration prior to installing after-market wheels.

So, has any member of this forum had a vibration or shake with after-market wheels, installed these rings and it actually fix the problem?

Thanks in advance for your time, input and

.

Results so far listed below.

They helped:
1. Mama's~Honda
2. Anubis
3. jspecFG
4. aki
5. darna

They didn't help:
1. Bootsie

Bootsie · 05-08-2007, 10:55 AM

I had the same problem, and no, hubcentric rings did not fix the problem. I then took it to the dealership to find out if it was the car; they could not find anything wrong. But after they looked the vibration has gone away, I think that they must have torqued the lugs differently or something. I would just take it in to the dealership and have them check things out, but be careful, my dealership gouged up my rims because he didn't know how to work with aftermarket wheels. (They will be fixing them though)

SiCali · 05-08-2007, 10:59 AM

she's right. i hope you're also using aftermarket lugs. I used a cheapy torque wrench to put my rims on, but it still vibrated. When I took it to the dealer, they told me my lugs were just a bit loose. I used 80 lbs w/ my wrench, so next time i remove them to rotate them, i'll probably up it a bit then recheck my wheels after a day's worth of driving.

***MAMA'S~HONDA*** · 05-08-2007, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyflier1971

OK, I've seen several threads on 8thcivic about hub centric rings. I found a thread where a guy used them and still had a vibration with the rings installed. I've found tons of post where members are saying you should use them. And, I've found lots of post where members say use the plastic rings and not aluminum.

Maybe I've over looked it but, I've yet to see anyone state that installing the hub centric rings actually cured the after-market wheel vibration. I've just installed after-market wheels on my Si. They have been re-balanced three times in the past two days by two different high quality balancing machines. But, I still get a bad vibration at speeds above 50mph and 65+ will vibrate you off the road.

I didn't have this vibration prior to installing after-market wheels.

So, has any member of this forum had a vibration or shake with after-market wheels, installed these rings and it actually fix the problem?

Thanks in advance for your time, input and

.

I actually had a severe vibration at speeds over 50 and took it to a wheel specialty shop. They said the balancing weights were put on in the wrong places and wrong way. They redid that the proper way and that eliminated a lot of it. Then they put on the rings (they had to be ordered cuz they didn't have them in stock. They usually order them with the rims but since I didn't buy the rims from them, they didn't have it.) and that cured the problem. My civic rides like they have factory wheels on it now.

skyflier1971 · 05-08-2007, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiCali

she's right. i hope you're also using aftermarket lugs. I used a cheapy torque wrench to put my rims on, but it still vibrated. When I took it to the dealer, they told me my lugs were just a bit loose. I used 80 lbs w/ my wrench, so next time i remove them to rotate them, i'll probably up it a bit then recheck my wheels after a day's worth of driving.

Yes, I'm using the lugs that are designed for the wheels.

skyflier1971 · 05-08-2007, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bootsie

I had the same problem, and no, hubcentric rings did not fix the problem. I then took it to the dealership to find out if it was the car; they could not find anything wrong. But after they looked the vibration has gone away, I think that they must have torqued the lugs differently or something. I would just take it in to the dealership and have them check things out, but be careful, my dealership gouged up my rims because he didn't know how to work with aftermarket wheels. (They will be fixing them though)

Yup, I'd seen your thread. And it made we wonder if these rings will do anything at all to get rid of the vibration. Your thread actually inspired me to pose the question - Do these things actually work? Has anyone seen improvement after using the hub centric rings?

Anubis · 05-08-2007, 12:52 PM

I would strongly suggesting using hub rings for aftermarket rims. I have always put a set on with any aftermarket rims it is worth it in the end IMO. Otherwise your rotors can warp, tire tread wear uneven, and to top it off the ride can be crappy without them.

Bootsie · 05-08-2007, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyflier1971

Yup, I'd seen your thread. And it made we wonder if these rings will do anything at all to get rid of the vibration. Your thread actually inspired me to pose the question - Do these things actually work? Has anyone seen improvement after using the hub centric rings?

They didn't help me, but I am still glad that I have them, it is just a peace of mind thing.

Dans_Si · 05-08-2007, 01:30 PM

I don't understand why you need them if you have to correct lugs and install the lugs correctly? The taper of the lugs and conical shape of the wheel lug seat should center the stud within the wheel? I don't get it. Can someone explain how the rings will keep the wheel centered after you torque the lugs down. To me, the shape of the lugs and seats dictates how the wheel centered. I don't get it. I have aftermarket wheels/no rings and feel no vibration at 100+ MPH.

Dans_Si · 05-08-2007, 01:36 PM

Finding this pic kinda helped me...but I still don't see how a correctly installed wheel can't do the same thing? Please explain....Thanks!

ekim1 · 05-08-2007, 02:08 PM

I've never used them and never had a problem with aftermarket wheels.

skyflier1971 · 05-08-2007, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dans_Si

Finding this pic kinda helped me...but I still don't see how a correctly installed wheel can't do the same thing? Please explain....Thanks!

I know, I've put after-market wheels on lots of my vehicles. Never have I needed such a device to stop a vibration. Actually never even heard of such a thing until it was suggested to me by the people trying to balance my wheels. They advised me to try them, so the rings are on the way via FedEx and should be here on the 10th. I'm willing to try anything to stop this vibration including going back to my factory wheels. It's so bad I can't drive it like this, so my sled is parked till the rings are installed.

Come on, surely more 8thcivic members have experienced these problems and used hub centric rings.

Please post peeps - I want to know if they stop the vibration. What is your experience using them.

tommyroo · 05-08-2007, 03:19 PM

Not sure I'm gonna be much help. I just put on some Motegi's and they don't vibrate at all. They shipped centering rings and new lugs with the rims so I used them right away. Tirerack.com rocks!

jspecFG · 05-08-2007, 03:39 PM

I haven't tryed mounting my rims without hub rings, but I can tell you that with them on there is absoultly no vibrations. At highway speeds (130km/h) there is very slight vibrations but that is because I probably need to re-torque the lugs. Hope that helps.

aki · 05-08-2007, 05:32 PM

My old rims, I didn't have hub centric rings. The car vibrated like *crazy* above 50 mph. After putting the rings in the vibrations really subsided (but still vibrated slightly)

My Rotas I've had the rings in since day one so I can't say whether they helped. It feels like stock wheels too, which is nice.

Most aftermarket wheels are hub-centric instead of lug-centric. Hub centric rings aren't an option; they're needed if the hub of the rim is bigger, and if the wheels are hub centric.

***sonej4*** · 05-08-2007, 05:45 PM

I am trying to decide if I should use them also. I have a set of Work Emotion wheels and have not installed them yet. When I called Work USA they said they are not needed with their wheels. They stated the lugs are drilled centered and if you torque it correctly, rings are not needed. It may have just been the one person I talked to, but he said they are not needed. I think a lot depends on deviations in the manufacturing process of the wheel. I can't answer the question you are posing, but am subscribed to find out your results.

TampaSi07 · 05-09-2007, 05:57 AM

Holy crap guys!! Let me explain this to you. First off YOU MUST USE THE RINGS!!! Second, YOU MUST USE A METAL RING. Let me now explain why. Wheel studs are not designed for shearing force. In other words they are not designed to support the weight of the car. They are only supposed to hold the wheel flat against the brake hat.

The little lip that the rings fit over is called the "spigot." Its job IS to hold the weight of the vehicle and prevent you from shearing off wheel studs. When you don't use a metal hubcentric ring you send all that shearing force right through the lug nuts. You also put tremendous stress on the hub as well as the wheel bearings and if you drive hard at all, THEY WILL FAIL!! I can't believe wheel shops don't know this. Makes me sick.

Here are some nice pics of what can happen:

3 studs sheared right off.

The damage to you car when the wheel falls off.

skyflier1971 · 05-09-2007, 12:48 PM

I believe "TampaSi07" is on to something, I've also read about the load being on the lugs instead of the hub if you run a wheel that isn't hub centric. And the more I read the more I learn that MOST after-market wheels are NOT hub centric. This is because they are made to fit many different vehicles. The hub centric ring provides perfect fitment for you particular application. And just because the wheels are not vibrating doesn't mean the load is being applied properly to the hub.

I agree, that for safety your wheel must place the load it carries on the vehicles hub properly. If your wheel does not, you are asking for lug/stud failure. Not because the studs are weaker, but because the load is not distributed to the hub but rather placed solely on the studs.

So why is it that after-market wheel providers would even sell a wheel without these rings? Makes me wonder - What if I experienced a stud failure that caused damage to my car, personal injury to some innocent person or myself.

Now don't get me wrong - Sure, a wheel can still be ripped from a car given the right situation even with the rings in place, but I don't think this type of failure would come from the load being carried - it would have to come from some other force tearing the wheel away from the hub.

Dans_Si · 05-09-2007, 01:52 PM

Now this makes a ton more sense to me. Cars for years never used hubs like this. What makes these studs weaker?

TampaSi07 · 05-09-2007, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyflier1971

I believe "TampaSi07" is on to something, I've also read about the load being on the lugs instead of the hub if you run a wheel that isn't hub centric. And the more I read the more I learn that MOST after-market wheels are NOT hub centric. This is because they are made to fit many different vehicles. The hub centric ring provides perfect fitment for you particular application. And just because the wheels are not vibrating doesn't mean the load is being applied properly to the hub.

I agree, that for safety your wheel must place the load it carries on the vehicles hub. If your wheel does not, you are asking for lug/stud failure.

So why is it that after-market wheel providers would even sell a wheel without these rings? Makes me wonder - What if I experienced a stud failure that caused damage to my car, personal injury to some innocent person or myself.

It's not the fault of the manufacturers. It's the fault of the retailers that simply don't know WTF they are doing. You are exactly right. When Honda specs a wheel they spec it to fit the spigot exactly with no ring required. An aftermarket wheel needs to work in many applications so the rings are what makes that possible.

Wheel studs were only designed for tension, no shearing. Imagine hitting a pothole and that entire shear load having to be supported just by the studs. You may have spent $600 a wheel on the latest forged masterpiece, but it won't matter at all as you watch it sail off your car.

Being in the racing game and HPDE instruction for many years I can't tell you how many times I have seen this.

05-08-2007, 10:36 AM	#1 (permalink)
skyflier1971 Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Jackson,MS. Posts: 88 BLittle iTrader: 1 / 100%	Hub Centric Rings - Do they work? OK, I've seen several threads on 8thcivic about hub centric rings. I found a thread where a guy used them and still had a vibration with the rings installed. I've found tons of post where members are saying you should use them. And, I've found lots of post where members say use the plastic rings and not aluminum. Maybe I've over looked it but, I've yet to see anyone state that installing the hub centric rings actually cured the after-market wheel vibration. I've just installed after-market wheels on my Si. They have been re-balanced three times in the past two days by two different high quality balancing machines. But, I still get a bad vibration at speeds above 50mph and 65+ will vibrate you off the road. I didn't have this vibration prior to installing after-market wheels. So, has any member of this forum had a vibration or shake with after-market wheels, installed these rings and it actually fix the problem? Thanks in advance for your time, input and . Results so far listed below. They helped: 1. Mama's~Honda 2. Anubis 3. jspecFG 4. aki 5. darna They didn't help: 1. Bootsie Last edited by skyflier1971; 05-09-2007 at 03:56 PM.

05-09-2007, 12:48 PM	#18 (permalink)
skyflier1971 Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Jackson,MS. Posts: 88 BLittle iTrader: 1 / 100%	Good find - TampaSi07 I believe "TampaSi07" is on to something, I've also read about the load being on the lugs instead of the hub if you run a wheel that isn't hub centric. And the more I read the more I learn that MOST after-market wheels are NOT hub centric. This is because they are made to fit many different vehicles. The hub centric ring provides perfect fitment for you particular application. And just because the wheels are not vibrating doesn't mean the load is being applied properly to the hub. I agree, that for safety your wheel must place the load it carries on the vehicles hub properly. If your wheel does not, you are asking for lug/stud failure. Not because the studs are weaker, but because the load is not distributed to the hub but rather placed solely on the studs. So why is it that after-market wheel providers would even sell a wheel without these rings? Makes me wonder - What if I experienced a stud failure that caused damage to my car, personal injury to some innocent person or myself. Now don't get me wrong - Sure, a wheel can still be ripped from a car given the right situation even with the rings in place, but I don't think this type of failure would come from the load being carried - it would have to come from some other force tearing the wheel away from the hub. Last edited by skyflier1971; 05-09-2007 at 02:52 PM.

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05-08-2007, 10:55 AM	#2 (permalink)
Bootsie Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: UT Posts: 917 Brooklynn iTrader: 0 / 0%	I had the same problem, and no, hubcentric rings did not fix the problem. I then took it to the dealership to find out if it was the car; they could not find anything wrong. But after they looked the vibration has gone away, I think that they must have torqued the lugs differently or something. I would just take it in to the dealership and have them check things out, but be careful, my dealership gouged up my rims because he didn't know how to work with aftermarket wheels. (They will be fixing them though)

05-08-2007, 10:59 AM	#3 (permalink)
SiCali Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: SoCal Posts: 317 iTrader: 1 / 100%	she's right. i hope you're also using aftermarket lugs. I used a cheapy torque wrench to put my rims on, but it still vibrated. When I took it to the dealer, they told me my lugs were just a bit loose. I used 80 lbs w/ my wrench, so next time i remove them to rotate them, i'll probably up it a bit then recheck my wheels after a day's worth of driving.

05-08-2007, 12:52 PM	#7 (permalink)
Anubis Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Williamsburg, VA Age: 28 Posts: 4,741 iTrader: 6 / 100%	I would strongly suggesting using hub rings for aftermarket rims. I have always put a set on with any aftermarket rims it is worth it in the end IMO. Otherwise your rotors can warp, tire tread wear uneven, and to top it off the ride can be crappy without them.

05-08-2007, 01:30 PM	#9 (permalink)
Dans_Si Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Good Old Kane Co. IL Posts: 151 iTrader: 0 / 0%	I don't understand why you need them if you have to correct lugs and install the lugs correctly? The taper of the lugs and conical shape of the wheel lug seat should center the stud within the wheel? I don't get it. Can someone explain how the rings will keep the wheel centered after you torque the lugs down. To me, the shape of the lugs and seats dictates how the wheel centered. I don't get it. I have aftermarket wheels/no rings and feel no vibration at 100+ MPH.

05-08-2007, 02:08 PM	#11 (permalink)
ekim1 Junior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Lake Forest, CA Age: 22 Posts: 11 Eugene Kim iTrader: 0 / 0%	I've never used them and never had a problem with aftermarket wheels.

05-08-2007, 03:19 PM	#13 (permalink)
tommyroo Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Age: 35 Posts: 1,155 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Not sure I'm gonna be much help. I just put on some Motegi's and they don't vibrate at all. They shipped centering rings and new lugs with the rims so I used them right away. Tirerack.com rocks!

05-08-2007, 03:39 PM	#14 (permalink)
jspecFG Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 861 iTrader: 0 / 0%	I haven't tryed mounting my rims without hub rings, but I can tell you that with them on there is absoultly no vibrations. At highway speeds (130km/h) there is very slight vibrations but that is because I probably need to re-torque the lugs. Hope that helps.

05-08-2007, 05:32 PM	#15 (permalink)
aki Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: tehインターウェブ Age: 29 Posts: 4,356 Resident Si Sedan Hater iTrader: 4 / 100%	My old rims, I didn't have hub centric rings. The car vibrated like crazy above 50 mph. After putting the rings in the vibrations really subsided (but still vibrated slightly) My Rotas I've had the rings in since day one so I can't say whether they helped. It feels like stock wheels too, which is nice. Most aftermarket wheels are hub-centric instead of lug-centric. Hub centric rings aren't an option; they're needed if the hub of the rim is bigger, and if the wheels are hub centric.

05-08-2007, 05:45 PM	#16 (permalink)
*sonej4* VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Thomaston, GA Age: 32 Posts: 1,913 Richard iTrader: 5 / 100%	I am trying to decide if I should use them also. I have a set of Work Emotion wheels and have not installed them yet. When I called Work USA they said they are not needed with their wheels. They stated the lugs are drilled centered and if you torque it correctly, rings are not needed. It may have just been the one person I talked to, but he said they are not needed. I think a lot depends on deviations in the manufacturing process of the wheel. I can't answer the question you are posing, but am subscribed to find out your results.

05-09-2007, 05:57 AM	#17 (permalink)
TampaSi07 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 565 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Holy crap guys!! Let me explain this to you. First off YOU MUST USE THE RINGS!!! Second, YOU MUST USE A METAL RING. Let me now explain why. Wheel studs are not designed for shearing force. In other words they are not designed to support the weight of the car. They are only supposed to hold the wheel flat against the brake hat. The little lip that the rings fit over is called the "spigot." Its job IS to hold the weight of the vehicle and prevent you from shearing off wheel studs. When you don't use a metal hubcentric ring you send all that shearing force right through the lug nuts. You also put tremendous stress on the hub as well as the wheel bearings and if you drive hard at all, THEY WILL FAIL!! I can't believe wheel shops don't know this. Makes me sick. Here are some nice pics of what can happen: 3 studs sheared right off. The damage to you car when the wheel falls off.

05-09-2007, 01:52 PM	#19 (permalink)
Dans_Si Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Good Old Kane Co. IL Posts: 151 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Now this makes a ton more sense to me. Cars for years never used hubs like this. What makes these studs weaker?