Iraqi govt invades a community and steals 416 childern.

[ryker]

The Iraqi govt didn't agree with a certain relgious community so they invaded them. Tanks and machine guns were used. Then took away all of the childern.

Big Brother stepping out of bounds

[Janizary]

98% of the population was just lost due to the 'Iraqi' comment as it relates to the story. I appreciate the sarcasm, however. (Though in a rather extremist "I live in a compound with 'The Prophet' and you can take my gun from my cold, dead fingers" kind of way...)

[civsnake]

It wouldn't be as big an issue if that particular group of polygamists didn't have an association with a group with an established history of pedophilia and abuse.

In this instance, I think it would be prudent for local enforcement agencies to step in and do what needs to be done to sort this all out. Forcefully removing the children from families might be necessary for a period, but I wouldn't approve of forcing all of the children into foster care permanently.

[ryker]

Originally Posted by civsnake

didn't have an association with a group with an established history of pedophilia and abuse.
.

Google catholic church


Serious though. Legally the govt had very little right to take all those kids. No more than it would have invading a known section of town with drug users and kicking in ALL doors to issue drug testing. Or invading a catholic church and taking all young boys to get interviewed.

Then the fact they roll up with machine guns and tanks!!!!!

I would bet on average those kids have better healthy lifestyles, less drug use, less alchol use, lower obesity, less mental problems etc etc etc than any town in America.

These action are the kinds that fuel terrorist hate of America. These actions cause other nations to laugh and mock us.

[sh33t_0f_p4p3r]

oh well, there weird

[sh33t_0f_p4p3r]

Originally Posted by ryker

Google catholic church


Serious though. Legally the govt had very little right to take all those kids. No more than it would have invading a known section of town with drug users and kicking in ALL doors to issue drug testing. Or invading a catholic church and taking all young boys to get interviewed.

Then the fact they roll up with machine guns and tanks!!!!!

I would bet on average those kids have better healthy lifestyles, less drug use, less alchol use, lower obesity, less mental problems etc etc etc than any town in America.

These action are the kinds that fuel terrorist hate of America. These actions cause other nations to laugh and mock us.

A child protection supervisor testified Thursday that girls at a West Texas polygamous ranch believed that teen marriages were OK and that girls from the compound had gotten pregnant when they were as young as 13.
but thats kewl

[GeezerSi]

Polygamist pedophiles must be run through a tree chipper.

[GoHuskies]

As much as I would like to call this a less violent Waco I can't overlook some of the charges.

The fact the authorities did claim to have testimony before they invaded as to abuse and child sex. At least they claim that of course.... But in any case these were gathered BEFORE the invasion. After the fact with all the testimony from children taken I'm sure any question of justification will be forgotten.

[GoHuskies]

bump*

Just read that the Texas Rangers have announced the girl who called in to complain of abuse doesn't even exist. Their investigating an outsider for making a false claim.

Another Iraq. Invasion on little or questionable evidence and now after the fact nobody cares enough to be offended by yet another abuse of authority. Yet another reason why government should be as limited as possible.

[galaxygrey13]

I dont see where marrying a 13 year old is right. If you support this kind of thing you are sick. They should take all those guys that did marry or forced their daughters to marry out back and hang them.

[civsnake]

Originally Posted by ryker

Google catholic church


Serious though. Legally the govt had very little right to take all those kids. No more than it would have invading a known section of town with drug users and kicking in ALL doors to issue drug testing. Or invading a catholic church and taking all young boys to get interviewed.

Then the fact they roll up with machine guns and tanks!!!!!

I would bet on average those kids have better healthy lifestyles, less drug use, less alchol use, lower obesity, less mental problems etc etc etc than any town in America.

These action are the kinds that fuel terrorist hate of America. These actions cause other nations to laugh and mock us.

The difference in this case is that the religion in question ran the entire community, so there's little chance of escaping the reach of the church. Catholic priests had influence within the church, but children weren't with them all the time; they could go home and have a chance to report inappropriate behavior, as some did.

It should be noticed that I am not accusing the YFZ group of incest, pedophilia, or child abuse outright, simply that they are a splinter from a group that has an established history of these acts. They may be perfectly stable and loving. Or they may be horrible people who **** kids.

I'll put it to you this way: What if this religious group had been a splinter from a known suicide cult? What if the parent group had set up a compound with hundreds of followers that ended up killing themselves along with any children? Would that be enough of a risk to children's safety to get involved?

As for the "machine guns and tanks" issue, you can easily remember times in the past where the Gov. has had standoffs against militant groups that were armed. I don't mind them being prepared for the same reason it doesn't bother me if a LEO has a hand on their gun when initiating a traffic stop. Paranoia sucks, but it does exist. The fact is that they didn't use machine guns or tanks this time, just had them in case. Who exactly did that harm?

Are the kids healthier than average? Possibly. But there's also a higher probability that they are effectively brainwashed. If you're going to talk about personal freedom, you can't simply ignore the possibility that these kids may be denied basic freedom of thought.

[jerhunter]

Originally Posted by GoHuskies

bump*

Just read that the Texas Rangers have announced the girl who called in to complain of abuse doesn't even exist. Their investigating an outsider for making a false claim.

Another Iraq. Invasion on little or questionable evidence and now after the fact nobody cares enough to be offended by yet another abuse of authority. Yet another reason why government should be as limited as possible.

Link to where you read that.

I'm just a short drive from where this took place, and that rumor hasn't made its way around these parts yet.

[GoHuskies]

Originally Posted by jerhunter

Link to where you read that.

I'm just a short drive from where this took place, and that rumor hasn't made its way around these parts yet.

ABC News: DNA Test in Store for Polygamy Kids

They were taken after a phone call, from a girl known as Sarah, was placed to a woman's shelter in San Angelo. The girl said she was 16 and complained of being forced to marry a 50-year-old man who already had several wives. That girl has not been found yet.

Texas Rangers are now investigating the possibility that the phone call which triggered the raid, was a hoax. Rozita Swinton, 33, of Colorado Springs, is charged with false reporting, a misdemeanor.

[ryker]

Originally Posted by sh33t_0f_p4p3r

A child protection supervisor testified Thursday that girls at a West Texas polygamous ranch believed that teen marriages were OK and that girls from the compound had gotten pregnant when they were as young as 13.
but thats kewl

Research history of age of Marriages in American prior to 1950's. You will find that many women were married at a young age. Not my personal opinion and no emotions. But chances are your grandmother or at some point a woman in your family tree was married off at the age of 13-16.

Originally Posted by GoHuskies

The fact the authorities did claim to have testimony before they invaded as to abuse and child sex. At least they claim that of course.... But in any case these were gathered BEFORE the invasion. After the fact with all the testimony from children taken I'm sure any question of justification will be forgotten.

Must have resonable claim. Then they only have the right to search for that one kid. When a missing child in Atlatan GA happens in normal America - cops are not giving a blank check to invaded EVERYHOUSE in Atlanta.

Chances are if cops invaded any sector of American society and interogated 416 kids they would find and equal or even great number of sexual abuses, drug abuse, obestity problems, mental abuse, etc etc etc

Originally Posted by GoHuskies

Invasion on little or questionable evidence and now after the fact nobody cares enough to be offended by yet another abuse of authority. Yet another reason why government should be as limited as possible.

Originally Posted by galaxygrey13

I dont see where marrying a 13 year old is right. If you support this kind of thing you are sick. They should take all those guys that did marry or forced their daughters to marry out back and hang them.

Why is it ok to all gays to do and it is so very wrong to judge them. But yet we can pass judegment so quickly on this sector. Are you a maryphobe? A mormonphobe. We are a nation founded on religious freedom. I do recall that lesson in history class.

Originally Posted by civsnake

Are the kids healthier than average? Possibly. But there's also a higher probability that they are effectively brainwashed. If you're going to talk about personal freedom, you can't simply ignore the possibility that these kids may be denied basic freedom of thought.

What! Who are we to pass judgement on them? What about the quakers who live much the same way. Should we invaded them? One could call any and all religions brainwashed. Walking on water, ring a bell? All Christanians could be called brainwashed, by your standards



Overall point. WHAT NEXT will our government do? How much more control are we going to give them?

[galaxygrey13]

Its not that im a mormonphobe or anything like that. But there are laws. I dont think its right to not give a girl and option and marry them off to some guy at the age of 13. The kids have freedom too. I bet you if I dated a 13 year old I would be thrown in jail and called a pervert, child molester, and who knows what else but its ok for them to have sex with minors? i dont think so.

[sh33t_0f_p4p3r]

exactly, my friend has sex with a girl who lied about her age, 3 year probation and is now in the Pedo bear

[civsnake]

Originally Posted by ryker

What! Who are we to pass judgement on them? What about the quakers who live much the same way. Should we invaded them? One could call any and all religions brainwashed. Walking on water, ring a bell? All Christanians could be called brainwashed, by your standards



Overall point. WHAT NEXT will our government do? How much more control are we going to give them?

Sorry, but I don't buy into the ethical relativism BS. Regardless of what your religion or social culture says, there are certain things I consider morally absolute. Killing people for pleasure is wrong. Not because a book says it is or because my parents told me that. It's fundamentally out of alignment with every aspect of human progress. Denying children the ability to think for themselves just for the sake of preserving your culture is wrong. If they know all sides of the story and decide to do things another way, then your culture is doomed and unsustainable.

I can judge any person or group because I'm a part of the society they live within.

Again I have to remind you of the huge difference between mainstream Christianity and FLDS groups: The level of influence isn't even comparable. These kids will live on this ranch for their entire childhood, separated from any source of influence or information that could help them understand that they don't HAVE to marry at 13 years old if they don't want to. Are Christians brainwashed? Perhaps some of them are. As a matter of opinion, I think it takes some serious work to make someone believe in an all-powerful imaginary friend with real passion. But there are some who simply choose to believe in something higher than humans, despite plenty of information and other options available. That's a choice they make, not something forced upon them.


What next will our government do? That's really up to us, isn't it? I predict that you will see a decrease in Federal power over the next decade or so just as a backlash against the current administration. Well, I guess a decrease in displays of Federal power, at least. But I'm also afraid that another revolution might be possible and necessary sometime within the next 25 years if things progress just as they have been.

[rmfa]

Didn't they do something like this in Texas very recently?

[ryker]

valid counter points - thanks for the discussion.

[illusionstwice]

Originally Posted by GeezerSi

Polygamist pedoph