Government: Let's Talk!

[MordeKyle]

First off I'd like to say that by no means do i want to start a debate. Nor do I want anyone to get offended or fight. I simply want to see where everyone stands with their beliefs.

I myself believe in:

-PRO CONSTITUTION

-Pro Gun(second amendment FTW)

-Pro Choice(no i dont think abortion is a good think. I would always discourage it, but i do believe there is the right for a woman to chose. sometimes situations deem it necessary. And if abortion is made illegal for everyone except rape victims, then there is going to be a lot of innocent men in jail because the girl needed an abortion and said she was raped to get it.)

-Pro CCW(carry concealed weapon for citizens.[no felons. 23yo+, special training and gun safety clases])

-anti/pro gun control (im agains the fact that the government can tell private citizens that they can not own guns when the constitution gives citizens the right to. i also see no practical use for fully automatic guns. full auto can still be purchased, owned, and used legally with the correct permits.)

-Smaller government(the citizens of the US have made it a habbit to involve the government into every aspect of our lives and that results in large government, which apears to be more and more like dictatorship to me.)

-Pro President Bush (regardless of what anyone says, i love him)

-i believe the iraqi war is just(simple, overthrow a dictator that is responsible for hundreds of thousands of innocent lives, maybe millions. and we cant leave as soon as he is overthrown, we made stay arround and make sure the government will stand or we will be doing this every ten years.)

-also this last one may be a touchy issue, but by no means am i racist or anything like that... i belive there should be no term such as minority. i dont beleive that the society we live in today that racism is previlent enough to grant belifits to everyone but white males. as an caucasian/asian i have been entitled to minority benefits but i have never accepted them. not because im rich(actually im poor) but because i belive that we should not be taking handouts. work hard for what you want. the money i make busting my butt, i enjoy more, even though i dont have a lot

what about you guys?

[CZ-75]

I believe most everything about what you say except I'm not for Bush or the Iraq war any longer. I voted for Bush the first time (to keep Gore out and end the Clinton legacy - I plan on doing the same to anyone connected to the Bush family - even though I knew he was mediocre material for the presidency) and abstained the last time. I supported the war based on our false intelligence and still support the initial decision despite that (but that's only for the first year), but now feel we are wasting lives on a mess that we cannot solve via military means. Too similar to Vietnam, in that we are about the only thing propping up the current government and the indigenous military forces we're training to secure the country will either cave or defect to one of the main factions when we leave. Now, we have the Iranians playing the same role as the Chinese and Russians did in Vietnam - supplying weapons, expertise, and covert fighters.

"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." -George Santayana

[MordeKyle]

Originally Posted by CZ-75

I believe most everything about what you say except I'm not for Bush or the Iraq war any longer. I voted for Bush the first time (to keep Gore out and end the Clinton legacy - I plan on doing the same to anyone connected to the Bush family - even though I knew he was mediocre material for the presidency) and abstained the last time. I supported the war based on our false intelligence and still support the initial decision despite that (but that's only for the first year), but now feel we are wasting lives on a mess that we cannot solve via military means. Too similar to Vietnam, in that we are about the only thing propping up the current government and the indigenous military forces we're training to secure the country will either cave or defect to one of the main factions when we leave. Now, we have the Iranians playing the same role as the Chinese and Russians did in Vietnam - supplying weapons, expertise, and covert fighters.

"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." -George Santayana

good post, thank you

[Gonzo]

I really didn't want to post anything because many of these are touchy issues. Though on abortion I have a pretty firm stance (one of the few things president Bush and I agree on) I would call my opinion pro life and before anyone gets upset I'll explain my reasoning.

First in cases of rape, incest, or when the mother's life is seriously threatened, I think abortion can be appropriate (for lack of a better word) though I still dislike it.

In most other cases I can't approve of abortion. Sex is something to be taken very seriously, especially when a consequence is pregnancy. If you decide to have sex you should do everything in your power to ensure that you don't have pregnancy occur if it isn't desired. Even if you use more than one form of birth control and you still get pregnant I'm sorry but I still cannot approve of abortion. If you don't want to get pregnant at all there is only one sure way to prevent it. Harsh but it is true. If you are willing to take the risk, however slight, and practice safe sex that is fine but you must still recognize the risk.

If you willingly have sex and get pregnant that's your fault. Just because it is a mistake you've made I don't believe it gives you the right to deny someone life.

If you disagree with me that is perfectly fine. If you want to argue or bring up points or situations I might not have considered please do so respectfully. I, likewise, will honor your opinion and treat it with respect though I might not agree with you.

[MordeKyle]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

I really didn't want to post anything because many of these are touchy issues. Though on abortion I have a pretty firm stance (one of the few things president Bush and I agree on) I would call my opinion pro life and before anyone gets upset I'll explain my reasoning.

First in cases of rape, incest, or when the mother's life is seriously threatened, I think abortion can be appropriate (for lack of a better word) though I still dislike it.

In most other cases I can't approve of abortion. Sex is something to be taken very seriously, especially when a consequence is pregnancy. If you decide to have sex you should do everything in your power to ensure that you don't have pregnancy occur if it isn't desired. Even if you use more than one form of birth control and you still get pregnant I'm sorry but I still cannot approve of abortion. If you don't want to get pregnant at all there is only one sure way to prevent it. Harsh but it is true. If you are willing to take the risk, however slight, and practice safe sex that is fine but you must still recognize the risk.

If you willingly have sex and get pregnant that's your fault. Just because it is a mistake you've made I don't believe it gives you the right to deny someone life.

If you disagree with me that is perfectly fine. If you want to argue or bring up points or situations I might not have considered please do so respectfully. I, likewise, will honor your opinion and treat it with respect though I might not agree with you.

i agree with you completely. but my fear is that of pandora's box. once you open it, it cant be closed, there is conciquences(sp).

i feel the same way with the whole terry shivo(i think) ordeal, where the comatose woman and her husband and pulling the plug and that whole deal. the government should not have the ability to make decisions in cases like that, and once you allow them to, then they have complete control, same with abortion IMO.

I do believe that abortion is very wrong. it just seems so brutal and unfair. I know a several couples who want kids very very badly but are unable because of medical defects. and then at the same time there are people having abortions, murdering, abusing, and molesting young children and babys. i would never allow a child of mine to be aborted...NEVER and i have always and will always discourage abortion, but utimataly i feel it is not my decision, or anyone elses decision to make. only the individual(s) involved can make the decision.

its touchy, i know! and i dont mean to call anyone out or start a bunch of arguments or anything, im just curiouse...

[slammedbimmer]

You said you dont want a fight or debate but thats exactly what youre asking for with this thread, bud. Just wait and see!

[MordeKyle]

Originally Posted by slammedbimmer

You said you dont want a fight or debate but thats exactly what youre asking for with this thread, bud. Just wait and see!

negatory, i respect everyones veiws. the second post in here is agains me in the president bush area, and i have not made any argument or fight about that.

thanks anyways though:face-icon

[Gonzo]

You are new here slammed so maybe you aren't too familiar with the forum.

MordeKyle created this thread to express his opinions and he did so in a manner that was respectful and non inflammatory. If someone wants to make a post in response they should conduct themselves similarly.

If someone isn't capable of that I suggest they not respond in the thread. Hopefully our members will show you that serious discussion can take place without resorting to insults or disrespect. If you yourself are planning on starting trouble I suggest you reconsider.

[SiCali]

hmm.. where to start

1. guns - yes, i think owning one is a fine (i don't have one myself). however, i think there should be some strict controls regarding who owns one, such as no felony (and if u get one u revoke ur right, etc). gun purchases should also require mandatory gun locks. 1st time buyers should require to take gun safety classes, etc. etc. i'm against owning fully auto weaps, simply b/c no matter how safe you keep guns, their liable to get stolen. i don't want to see those on the streets.
as for CCW, i personally don't think it's a good idea for lethal weapons. nonlethal weaps like stun guns are fine. i wouldn't want to be in the middle of bar fight and someone who's drunk and irritated to come out blasting. carrying in a car would be ok w/ me so long as the car has its own gun safe. like w/ sex, ppl are just way to careless nowadays w/ storing guns (e.g. ammo next to gun, easy access to kids, etc). sometimes a good old wooden bat is good enuf for me lol.

2. Bush/iraqi war - i'm against the war now. the initial reasons of WMD's and removing Saddam from power were valid for me, but w/ the growing lack of WMD's and the current state of iraq, i feel that it's time for us to pull out. The problem is the lack of a socioeconomic base to support a democratic political system. Furthermore, the intense social conflicts between the two major muslim groups in iraq will only fuel the fire. they have only known war and conflict for hundreds of years. it's very difficult to switch from that to peace. while i do agree that pulling out of iraq will leave a significant political power vaccuum, there's no real easy way to do it. there is no socioeconmic backing of the provisional government, and our presence in iraq is only creating a negative impact and will only hurt our relations with other mideast countries (if it's not already bad enuf lol)

[Gonzo]

Kyle out of curiosity, if you don't mind would you share some reasons why you like Bush. I'm not saying this in the spirit of disproving you or anything obviously, but with current public opinion very much against Bush, I'd be interested to hear things from the other side of the fence.

[slammedbimmer]

Perhaps youre right. All im saying is that theres always someone who blows it out proportion.
Im not a member here to start trouble, thats just silly.

[sickyute]

Originally Posted by MordeKyle

-i believe the iraqi war is just(simple, overthrow a dictator that is responsible for hundreds of thousands of innocent lives, maybe millions. and we cant leave as soon as he is overthrown, we made stay arround and make sure the government will stand or we will be doing this every ten years.)

-also this last one may be a touchy issue, but by no means am i racist or anything like that... i belive there should be no term such as minority. i dont beleive that the society we live in today that racism is previlent enough to grant belifits to everyone but white males. as an caucasian/asian i have been entitled to minority benefits but i have never accepted them. not because im rich(actually im poor) but because i belive that we should not be taking handouts. work hard for what you want. the money i make busting my butt, i enjoy more, even though i dont have a lot

what about you guys?

1. the iraq war is as unjust as they come ... the premiss for the war is as false a MJ playing hockey ... too many details i can point out to show where lies brought this war upon the US and all would be factual ... but that's not important ... what's important is that terrorists continue to breed around the world, afghanistan is still a mess, Bin Ladin is still out there as well as his fellow thugs, Genocide is taking place in the Sudan/Dafur area (one man is responsible for that i should add) all while a foolish war is being waged in iraq.... it should be noteworthy that the one man responsible for the killings in Sudan is free to walk as he pleases and smile infront of news camera like it's all good ... and it's going on now as i post this ... now really, tell me how just this war is ...

2. there should be no minority ... period ... everyone should be treated equal regarless of race, color or whatever. Some people do need handouts and help, but no one should be a referred to as the minority ... it's partly because of this u'll still have segregation and racism etc etc ... u even have a senator referring to a fellow prominent black/minority member as "unusually clean" to say the least... words like "minority" keep that backward mentality alive and when it shows that high up in ur society u know u have a problem.

just my 2c

[twistedframe]

I am moderately conservative.

I think that the second amendment should remain completely intact. It is every person's right to own a gun. If anything I think there should be more safety coursed geared towards young adults. With all the glorification of guns and violence in media, I think kids need to learn how to safely own and operate a gun. Also they need to know that a gun is not a toy and should be respected.

I am pro choice which is one of the two reasons I call myself a moderate conservative. While I would never want my partner to have one, it should be a womens choice what she does to her own body.

The second reason is because I believe *** marriage should be allowed. In my mind there is no reason that two women or two men should not be allowed to get married. It really pisses me off when I hear all of these priests and preachers saying homosexuality is a sin. The only sin is the act of sex outside of wedlock. If homosexuals could get married then the religious right would be out of reasons to condemn them.

I am pro death penalty. I think that if you take an innocent life, you deserve to have your life taken from you. An eye for an eye.

Even though I disagree with some of their views I still do tend to vote republican. Unfortunately after Bush's last attempt at running the country I think it might be a while before we see another republican. Although Rudy seems to have some pretty liberal views so he might have a slight chance.

[striker_1818]

Wow i take a different approach =]
- No guns allowed. That way there will be LESS guns out on the streets and whoever gets caught with one and doesn't belong to any department which authorizes the use of such weapons can rightfully get screwed and rotten in hell.
- About Bush, I never liked the way he started his presidency. Having his family take part of his stuff while firing personel for such. The guy doesn't act like a president, doesn't dress like a president, doesn't speak like a president and most important doesn't take responsability for his actions as a president of a Super Power country should.
- I'm not pro-life. The reason why I'm not pro-life is not because i defend the irresponsability of safe sex among teenagers but because you're giving the right to an immature, irresponsable, etc person to take care of a baby they didn't want to begin with. That and also when it comes to rape, abuse, etc. Get my point?
- Iraq War. This war started by the Bush administration lying about Weapons of Mass Destructions, ignoring foreign advices and going AGAINST the UN(which i hate btw) and many "democratic" countries to attack a country where according to the Hopkins University, more than 800,000(with a 5% error) iraqi civilians have died since we invaded that country until 2006. Then, after we found no WMD's, our excuse was that we went to war to take Saddam Hussein out. Funny thing Saddam Hussein was put into power by us and we made trades directly with Iraq from 1980-1990 until Iraq wanted Kuwait back for oil purposes. But because Saddam was greedy, we, the big 'ol US, stepped in because our oil supplies were going to someone who shut the door to us when we considred our beloved friend before. Another funny story when we did nothing while Israel supplied Iraq with biological weapons and Iraq used them on the poor iranian civilians. We did NOTHING back then but kept on doing trades with Iraq.
- US saying Chavez is a dictator when the US had MANY oil companies in Venezuela paying no tax to the venezuelan gov't and hiring people whose wages were 15 cents per day. Samething with Bolivia and Ecuador is happening as we speak. Thats why Chavez and other presidents stepped up and said No, you will no longer take my natural resources and the companies you have will be ours, wages will be raised, there will be a health plan for the workers and profit shared among the venezuelan people.
- Pro the death penalty. If you killed someone, you should be killed end of story.

BTW, I watched a documentary on HBO "Guns for hiring" or something like that. Why is it that I see US soldiers protecting the goddamn private contractors? That's money from our tax dollars that goes to them for free. Those contractors make 15G a day. Where is that money coming from? wow.

[Seemund]

Originally Posted by striker_1818

- Iraq War. This war started by the Bush administration lying about Weapons of Mass Destructions, ignoring foreign advices and going AGAINST the UN(which i hate btw) and many "democratic" countries to attack a country where according to the Hopkins University, more than 800,000(with a 5% error) iraqi civilians have died since we invaded that country until 2006. Then, after we found no WMD's, our excuse was that we went to war to take Saddam Hussein out. Funny thing Saddam Hussein was put into power by us and we made trades directly with Iraq from 1980-1990 until Iraq wanted Kuwait back for oil purposes. But because Saddam was greedy, we, the big 'ol US, stepped in because our oil supplies were going to someone who shut the door to us when we considred our beloved friend before. Another funny story when we did nothing while Israel supplied Iraq with biological weapons and Iraq used them on the poor iranian civilians. We did NOTHING back then but kept on doing trades with Iraq.
- US saying Chavez is a dictator when the US had MANY oil companies in Venezuela paying no tax to the venezuelan gov't and hiring people whose wages were 15 cents per day. Samething with Bolivia and Ecuador is happening as we speak. Thats why Chavez and other presidents stepped up and said No, you will no longer take my natural resources and the companies you have will be ours, wages will be raised, there will be a health plan for the workers and profit shared among the venezuelan people.
- Pro the death penalty. If you killed someone, you should be killed end of story.

OMG, You just saved me 20min.. :) THATS EXACTLY how I think..
+50000000000

[Phlipcyde]

1. Im very pro gun. A law abiding citizen should be able to buy weapons with little restriction. Even if that person wants a fully auto 50 cal I see no reason why they shouldnt be able to purchase one. People who have commited certain types of crimes should be restricted from purchasing a gun. I also think that many high schools should offer a gun safety course, kinda like drivers education.

2. Anti war. I really see no reason we should have ever invaded. Obviously there were no WMD's and yes while Saddam was a horrible person I dont think it is the position of the United States to play world policeman. And If we are to fight a war then we have to stop it with this nice guy routine (i.e. sending soldiers into a hostile building to clear it and minimize civilian casualties rather than just level it with explosives. Thats what the police do, not what soldiers during wartime should be doing).

3. Pro choice. Its not my right to tell a woman what she can and cant do with her body.

4. Anti Bush/Republicans. Ill leave it at that, just thinking about what they've managed to do these past few years makes me want to punch a hole through my wall.

5. States rights. I think that individual states should have more control over their own affairs and not have the feds telling them what they may or may not do. The biggest issue recently here was drilling in A.N.W.R. It is very frustrating that people who dont live here and have absolutely no idea what they are talking about can tell us what we may do with our land.

[sickyute]

anyone forget ties to 9/11 which was one of the reasons thrown out there. emminent/immediate threat. Terrorist haven. WMD. etc etc ... all proved wrong then it turned to just removing Saddam. talk about spin ...

i'm no american ... but i hate to see americans + 9/11 victims, friends + families, soldiers and their families get shafted like that... it reeks.

[BLU BY U]

how many terrorist attacks have there been on US soil since 9/11?

lets see here......uhhh.....yea....and then......oh yea.....0.

[striker_1818]

Samething after the WTC was attacked in 1992 Dear Blu