Government: Let's Talk!

[striker_1818]

Originally Posted by aki

Each country has a different story to tell based on the audience/news bias.

And Venezuela is moving toward totalitarian socialism under Hugo Chavez. Removal of autonomy of the Central Bank, and his voted-in "maximum revolution" are a signs of heavy nationalization.

That's where you're wrong. Everyone blames Hugo chavez and accuses him of being a dictator. Yet on every presidential elections he gets 65%+ of approval from the venezuelan people. "Nationalization" is a good thing when foreign companies aleve their thirst for oil using your natural resources while paying nothing to the workers in that nation. Also, not paying taxes either. Bolovia did the same few months ago. Ecuador is starting to do the same. The US is condeming those countries as naming them "dictatorships". Now now do you really believe that?

[CZ-75]

Originally Posted by striker_1818

That's where you're wrong. Everyone blames Hugo chavez and accuses him of being a dictator. Yet on every presidential elections he gets 65%+ of approval from the venezuelan people. "Nationalization" is a good thing when foreign companies aleve their thirst for oil using your natural resources while paying nothing to the workers in that nation. Also, not paying taxes either. Bolovia did the same few months ago. Ecuador is starting to do the same. The US is condeming those countries as naming them "dictatorships". Now now do you really believe that?

Hitler got 84.6%. Saddam Hussein got 99%.

[aki]

Originally Posted by striker_1818

That's where you're wrong. Everyone blames Hugo chavez and accuses him of being a dictator. Yet on every presidential elections he gets 65%+ of approval from the venezuelan people. "Nationalization" is a good thing when foreign companies aleve their thirst for oil using your natural resources while paying nothing to the workers in that nation. Also, not paying taxes either. Bolovia did the same few months ago. Ecuador is starting to do the same. The US is condeming those countries as naming them "dictatorships". Now now do you really believe that?

Not wanting to derail this thread more than I have, I'll just say this last thing: whether or not you think nationalization as a good thing, regardless whether 65% of the people approve, it's still moving towards a dictatorial regime. As for foreign companies paying squat for native's work, that's the government's fault, not the foreign companies. Usually the government concedes to that business under pressure to develop, in many cases for the sake of infrastructural development. I'm not sure why you mention Equador since it's been in shambles due to political fragmentation. Bolivia has the guiness book of world records for the most coupes--a whopping 192. Not sure why you'd bring that government up either as they're both poor examples.

Pastors would not be forced to marry same-sex couples, and I support that entirely. I do not support taking away anyone's rights, and that would clearly do so.

If everybody were like you the world would be a peaceful place. Unfortunately, militant activists on both sides polarize the debate--and the legislation that ensues. If it were possible to coin legislation in such a way to prevent violation of rights of people on both sides of the issue, then I'd be all for it.

[striker_1818]

Originally Posted by CZ-75

Hitler got 84.6%. Saddam Hussein got 99%.

But there's a difference between hitler, Saddam and Chavez.
Chavez was recently re-elected in 2006 with more approval this time.

[MordeKyle]

ok everyone... no more debate please...

lets just leave this to people's veiws please

[striker_1818]

Originally Posted by aki

Not wanting to derail this thread more than I have, I'll just say this last thing: whether or not you think nationalization as a good thing, regardless whether 65% of the people approve, it's still moving towards a dictatorial regime. As for foreign companies paying squat for native's work, that's the government's fault, not the foreign companies. Usually the government concedes to that business under pressure to develop, in many cases for the sake of infrastructural development. I'm not sure why you mention Equador since it's been in shambles due to political fragmentation. Bolivia has the guiness book of world records for the most coupes--a whopping 192. Not sure why you'd bring that government up either as they're both poor examples.

Wait Am i seeing, right?
A Super Power whose money and resources hungry would dry you until you got nothing less than dirt. That's why there are so many undeveloped countries nowdays. As you said foreign companies paying squat for native's work is not their fault but the gov't fault. Yet you're still forgetting such foreign companies DO NOT want to raise wages and so on. Furthermore, they get on the "secure" side of the law that any gov't can't take away foreign property. But when a new gov't comes along, asks for benefits for their people from foreign companies and they do not do sh!t but want more profit and keep the non-taxable profits for them, then they got their bonds taken away thus losing the companies. That's good for their people. It won't be good for us since gas prices will go up for it will be good for such gov't's people.
Let's not forget chavez was giving discounts to US homes when prices wentup the hill so during the winter, we wouldn't have to pay such high prices. Yet I see people comparing Chavez with Hitler and Saddam Hussein.
Bolivia as poor as they're doing, their economy is growing but the US is sanctioning them for shutting the door in their face and take over the oil facilities. Ecuador is having a mini social revolution due to US pressure on that country. Not even going to argue about the new misnister of defense(i dont know the exact position i gotta look it up) in the US which caused the salvadorian genocide in Central America.
Things like that upset me the most. Specially when people don't know the real truth behind poor countries which economy has been through hell thanks to the big ol US.

[CZ-75]

Originally Posted by striker_1818

But there's a difference between hitler, Saddam and Chavez.
Chavez was recently re-elected in 2006 with more approval this time.

Same as Hitler - the more power he got, the higher his approval.

[striker_1818]

lol read my previous post...
and we're having a decent debate =]
Nobody's calling anyone names so that's good.

[sickyute]

clinton put sactions on iraq? so what...
every us president since day one has tried to use sactions on governments they disagree with ... all it does is hurt the people and the people in turn hate the US...
that is all sanctions cause ... more hate ...

sanctions on cuba, north korea, iran, caribbean islands, etc etc ... u have no idea the amount of sanctions that are out there for foolish reasons ... and the US citizens have no clue.

[06CivEXJon]

Does anyone even know how 9/11 happend anyways? one word Clinton. The moron had like 5 attempts to grab Bin Laden but he didn't thus resulting in us being attacked and 3,000 lives being lost that day because of his stupidity,hell he did not do anything when they attacked the WTC first in 1992 and when the SS Cole got bombed. He should be in a jail cell right now as with all of the other extremist libs and Ted Kennedy which he killed a Woman in the 60's for some people that didn't know,go and look it up. As for Gun control im against it. I think you should have a right to bare arms,automatic semi auto etc. Also less government is good government and for god sake will some one remove the god damn ACLU (American Communist Liar Union) and UN! both organizations are destryoing America as with the media. Abortion i dont know where i stand on it. People should use safer sex methods and dont get pregnant it's that simple and how hard is it to say put the baby up for adoption? i get a kick out of how some people say well its "her body" well when a baby is inside you your carrying another life with you and killing it means you killed a part of yourself. In Venezuela it is a dicatorship pure and simple Chavez has now taken control of the oil fields,and other things there so yes he is a dictator that must be taken out,as for Iran we should use airstirkes against them because we know Iran is supplying terrorists in iraq with weapons. For the people running to be president in 2008 all of them are P*ssys! i mean come on Hitler Hillary and Barack Osama? (Obama which was raised in a Muslim madrassa) tax breaks for the rich should not be allowed,if rich people can afford multi mulliondollar homes then they should pay the higher taxes,tax the middle and lower income classes less. Illegal immigration is also a hot topic in America and i blame Dumbya for not fixing it,instead of wasting tax dollars in Iraq use it to fund fixing roads,schools,hospitals and a huge ass border wall not a damn fence,find all the illegals and deport them. Politics in America are so corrupt it isn't even funny. I think both parties want to destroy America. Also i could care less about Al Whore Gore,where is he now when New York just recieved 100+ inches of snow?! huh? where is he? oh yeah probably in a cave somwhere with other whackjob enviromentalists. I do care about the enviroment but enviromentalists are just whacko. We need Michael Savage or someone like him in 08 to save America,fraud hannity and hush bimbo and bill ohreally are phonies. Oh one last thing speak ENGLISH! this is America i get pissed off when i call someplace and it says press 1 for English press 2 for Spainish press 3 for Chinese. Also you cant say anything that isn't politcally correct like calling a person a retard or some non *** person a f*g or some*hit without someone turning around and suing you. America is turining into the nanny state,dont say this,dont say that. Im also for traditional marriage because *** marriage doesn't seem right at all,im for domestic couples but not marriage for gays. Either way in 08 whoever wins America is F*cked big time. Bush is messing around too much in Iraq we need to crush the enemy and use airstrikes,who goes door to door finding the enemy? seriously kill the enemy! we already have 3,120+ people die in Iraq thanks to dumbya,they would still be alive if we just bombarded the terrorists in iraq with airstrikes. Also get the media out of iraq,they portrial it as a miserable failure while our guys get shot at,picked off and courtmarshalled for bullsh*t. Let our troops do what they have to do and give them the right resources and weapons,without having to always babysit them. We need to level the Sunni triangle and kill Al Sadr those are the main reasons why our troops cant do their job its because of the ACLU,the government,media and anti war pot smoking idiots. Damn the Liberal Democrats and the Conservative Republicans. Here is a article showing how dangerous extremist liberals are in America. http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas...ground_checks/
oh and may Democracy flourish! socialism and communism=teh suck.

[Gonzo]

I dare say extremist conservatives are just as dangerous as extremist liberals. The shame is when any of them come to power.

Your comments about Obama seemed a bit xenophobic. No he wasn't "raised in a Muslim madrassa" he was raised by his mother. What exactly is your goal in calling him out for having attended a madrassa (which I might add, was a madrassa which wasn't even exclusively Muslim) when he was just 6 years old. What exactly are you trying to imply?

Nearly every news network (save Fox News, surprise...) debunked the madrassa smear campaign. Read about it if you'd like. Fox, the main purporter withdrew their initial claim. Don't blame the media for destroying America if you are willingly going to submit to its embellishments.

Quite frankly I would be relieved to have a President who actually knows something about the Muslim religion and people. People fear what they don't understand. Having a leader who understands might help mend our situation with the Muslim world.

Your suggestion about removing the ACLU is kinda insidious. You complain we are too politically correct and can't speak our mind, yet you want to remove groups that protect speaking your mind. The ACLU protects everyone's rights to say what they want to say.

As far as Savage, I am not a fan of him or many of his viewpoints. It is easy for a political commentator to criticize. I wouldn't trust one to run as a heavy handed politician, much less "save the country." The opinions of one man will always be too close minded to decide what is right or wrong for a country. Anyone who suggests otherwise should reexamine themselves.

IMO.

[striker_1818]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

I dare say extremist conservatives are just as dangerous as extremist liberals. The shame is when any of them come to power.

Your comments about Obama seemed a bit xenophobic. No he wasn't "raised in a Muslim madrassa" he was raised by his mother. What exactly is your goal in calling him out for having attended a madrassa (which I might add, was a madrassa which wasn't even exclusively Muslim) when he was just 6 years old. What exactly are you trying to imply?

Nearly every news network (save Fox News, surprise...) debunked the madrassa smear campaign. Read about it if you'd like. Fox, the main purporter withdrew their initial claim. Don't blame the media for destroying America if you are willingly going to submit to its embellishments.

Quite frankly I would be relieved to have a President who actually knows something about the Muslim religion and people. People fear what they don't understand. Having a leader who understands might help mend our situation with the Muslim world.

Your suggestion about removing the ACLU is kinda insidious. You complain we are too politically correct and can't speak our mind, yet you want to remove groups that protect speaking your mind. The ACLU protects everyone's rights to say what they want to say.

As far as Savage, I am not a fan of him or many of his viewpoints. It is easy for a political commentator to criticize. I wouldn't trust one to run as a heavy handed politician, much less "save the country." The opinions of one man will always be too close minded to decide what is right or wrong for a country. Anyone who suggests otherwise should reexamine themselves.

IMO.

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v242382GZ...28efa368e35768

[Dwn4nythng]

All you idiots that voted for Bush are plain stupid and narrow minded. We are in a 365 BILLION dollar debt because of this idiot Bush. Clinton and his era, everything was booming and WE ALL had more money to spend then we have now. How can any of you idiots support Bush. What? You want to be poor? Don't get me wrong, I have money and I still say this bastard is a idiot. We lost this stupid war, he should MAN UP and admit he lost the shit. I guess its good that there's stupid ass republicans around or the other people wouldn't look so dayam smart. I'm into guns, but do I support this dumb ass, NO! Either way I can get my guns legally or illegally, I can care less. The thing I can't stand the most is dumb ass Republicans. Open up your narrow minds and think outside the box. Think for the whole world and not just yourself, selfish asses.

[striker_1818]

Originally Posted by Dwn4nythng

All you idiots that voted for Bush are plain stupid and narrow minded. We are in a 365 BILLION dollar debt because of this idiot Bush. Clinton and his era, everything was booming and WE ALL had more money to spend then we have now. How can any of you idiots support Bush. What? You want to be poor? Don't get me wrong, I have money and I still say this bastard is a idiot. We lost this stupid war, he should MAN UP and admit he lost the shit. I guess its good that there's stupid ass republicans around or the other people wouldn't look so dayam smart. I'm into guns, but do I support this dumb ass, NO! Either way I can get my guns legally or illegally, I can care less. The thing I can't stand the most is dumb ass Republicans. Open up your narrow minds and think outside the box. Think for the whole world and not just yourself, selfish asses.

Watch the link i posted... and yeah man Down with bush. I still don't know why people "like him".

[striker_1818]

dude no name calling is necessary...
Once your mind is focused on something...whether it's the greatest thing on earth of the worst piece of sh!t ever made you'd love it no matter what.

[Gonzo]

Thanks for the link Striker. Good video.

We had a discussion thread that was kinda headed by Marc-o about foreign perspectives of the U.S. It was very informative.

The way in which our government treats other countries and handles foreign affairs worries me. What worries me even more is the fact so much of it is kept out of the American people's view. Just the way they want it.

[striker_1818]

20 minutes of truth
http://www.veoh.com/videos/e180487yW...3f9170116998a5
If you're in the military then please watch the video above. It might be boring but I'm sure as hell you might have encountered this issue.

[ErMasta]

I was going to stay out of this because religion and politics discussion dont lead to anything.

sickyute clinton put sactions on iraq? so what...
every us president since day one has tried to use sactions on governments they disagree with ... all it does is hurt the people and the people in turn hate the US...
that is all sanctions cause ... more hate ...

sanctions on cuba, north korea, iran, caribbean islands, etc etc ... u have no idea the amount of sanctions that are out there for foolish reasons ... and the US citizens have no clue.

Please Enlighten me with the foolish reason the US has sanctions on Cuba?
Btw im not a pro republican or Dem. I can careless as long as the President has my views. That is what i base my vote on.

Clinton made this country look weak and Bush second term sucked. BUt i rather have Bush than John. Dems are pussies and Republicans are easy on the trigger but we get to pick them and they dont last more than 8 years. Try that for a fit with Hugo.

The only people i cant stand are the ones that live in a perfect world Scenario. Socialism/Communism DOES NOT WORK !! Trust me i lived it. The want to make everyone believe is for the poor <<< basically bullshit.

Chavez is turning Venezuela like a mini Cuba and the poor is still poor....Look at the inflation on their economy. Now i do agree the some companies exploit countries but those countries need to ask for a change. Totalitarian is not the answer. Oh and about the votes lol.......If we can rig votes here, they can rig them over there. Ask Jimmy how....worst president ever !!

Once again this is just MHO and i respect everyones too. I just lived in those places not just visited or heard from guy that went on a trip and loved it. Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing. Even the internet is a high privilege and big time censored in Cuba. Bah .....

end.

[MordeKyle]

Originally Posted by Dwn4nythng

All you idiots that voted for Bush are plain stupid and narrow minded. We are in a 365 BILLION dollar debt because of this idiot Bush. Clinton and his era, everything was booming and WE ALL had more money to spend then we have now. How can any of you idiots support Bush. What? You want to be poor? Don't get me wrong, I have money and I still say this bastard is a idiot. We lost this stupid war, he should MAN UP and admit he lost the shit. I guess its good that there's stupid ass republicans around or the other people wouldn't look so dayam smart. I'm into guns, but do I support this dumb ass, NO! Either way I can get my guns legally or illegally, I can care less. The thing I can't stand the most is dumb ass Republicans. Open up your narrow minds and think outside the box. Think for the whole world and not just yourself, selfish asses.

alright, i respect your opinion as you should respect everyone elses opinion on this discussion. calling people, me included, an idiot is just plain and simple unnecessary and rude. now... if we cant all get along and keep this peacful and friendly i will be sure to have this thread closed. thanks

[CZ-75]

Originally Posted by Dwn4nythng

All you idiots that voted for Bush are plain stupid and narrow minded. We are in a 365 BILLION dollar debt because of this idiot Bush. Clinton and his era, everything was booming and WE ALL had more money to spend then we have now. How can any of you idiots support Bush. What? You want to be poor? Don't get me wrong, I have money and I still say this bastard is a idiot. We lost this stupid war, he should MAN UP and admit he lost the shit. I guess its good that there's stupid ass republicans around or the other people wouldn't look so dayam smart. I'm into guns, but do I support this dumb ass, NO! Either way I can get my guns legally or illegally, I can care less. The thing I can't stand the most is dumb ass Republicans. Open up your narrow minds and think outside the box. Think for the whole world and not just yourself, selfish asses.

How smart is someone who can't express themselves without being rude (in addition to being inarticulate)? You may want to check your facts on Clinton, as the economic decline started during his presidency, as did the end of the tech/dot com boom that buoyed the economy during most of his second term. He also signed NAFTA and paved the way for off-shoring American jobs.