I want to talk politics

[NRM]

It's a heated topic with many varying opinions. And that's why I love it. I'm very open minded as long as they have a real backing to it.

I feel that people who say they aren't into politics are either super super busy with their own personal goals or completely reckless. Policies run every aspect of our lives, from the rising price of gas to our education systems.

The way I see it, this is your country, this is your nation. Get up and do something about it. Learn about it. Defend it.

So I'll start up by making a point about gas prices.

The price of gas is NOT going up. I repeat, the price of gas is NOT going up.

It's the value of the dollar that is depreciating. In USD's the price of gas has increased 350%, in EUROS it has increased 200%. In gold standard (where money is backed by something real and tangible), the price of gas stayed flat.

Through financing this war, $60 trillion dollars in obligations that we have made to millions of Americans through social security, welfare and otherwise, a department of education that doesn't work, a department of homeland security that does not protect us, we have depreciated the value of the dollar in your very own back pocket.

Not a McCain supporter. Not an Obama supporter. I'm a supporter of the real facts, the constitution and liberty of all Americans.

Your take?

[gotsnodooks]

Originally Posted by NRM

So I'll start up by making a point about gas prices.

The price of gas is NOT going up. I repeat, the price of gas is NOT going up.

It's the value of the dollar that is depreciating. In USD's the price of gas has increased 350%, in EUROS it has increased 200%. In gold standard (where money is backed by something real and tangible), the price of gas stayed flat.

Not true.....

The price of gas IS going up. The price of petroleum is determined by the traders on the futures market. Depending on what the market value of petroleum is on any given day will determine what you pay at the pump. There are a lot of people in this country that are hoping the gas prices continue to rise because they are making a lot of money on it and these people are not necessarily affiliated with the petroleum industry...they are simply trading on the futures market, buying gas shares at one price and hoping that the price goes up so that they can sell. This is what is helping to cause the price of gas to rise.

You are right on the fact that the American dollar is depreciating but if that were the only contributing factor then ALL consumables would have increased proportionately, not just gas.

[ryker]

The price of gas wouldn't have increase as much if the value of the dollar was even. Both are factors. Both will get worse.

[BLU BY U]

vote republican please....us military folks make more money that way.


mmmmkay thanks.

[ThaJazz]

I recall reading recently that some Saudi oil producers have (finally) realized that consumers' oil prices worldwide are out of balance with the actual cost. I'll need to find the article, but a group was to summit in an attempt to strategize a way to increase their production.

I'm not holding my breath.

[aki]

As for gas, the reason it's so expensive is:

1) Emerging economies (China and India) raise demand which in turn raises prices.
2) Depreciating value of US currency due to the subprime mortgage crash, the subsequent lowering of interest rates (which makes more money stay circulated)
3) Oil speculation
4) War debt. Have to pay it somehow. Print more money. USD value goes kaput.
5) (For California) State gas tax. About 70 cents is going to our state govt in California. Liberals love tax hikes, but not admitting they do.

I doubt voting for Obama or McCain would solve the problems, too.

[NRM]

Originally Posted by gotsnodooks

You are right on the fact that the American dollar is depreciating but if that were the only contributing factor then ALL consumables would have increased proportionately, not just gas.

I've actually read up on the Futures Market. And I agree to that extent as well. But the Futures Market has been around for over a century now and the rising price of gasoline hasn't gone up at these levels.

I honestly feel that the issue of inflation is a more severe one. And I DO believe the price of all consumables are going up. People just haven't realized it yet. And when people finally catch up to it, we are going to be so far behind that most people will not be able to afford the normal goods we have been able to have all along. I can tell some people are already starting to realize "Hm, gas is going up, does that mean transporting my goods is also getting more expensive?"

You sure bet.

As far as the war goes, I don't support it. I support the troops, whole-heartedly, and our military efforts, but the war has caused the United States a debt that is hurting us. Operation Iraqi Freedom. It isn't our job to liberate countries around the world when we have the sick, the uneducated, and the elderly at home. Over 700 bases in 130 countries. I have yet to look into how much that really costs us everyday.

[Redleg06Si]

Eyeblast.tv - A Video Portrait Of Barack Hussein Obama

[JKinATL]

Originally Posted by BLU BY U

vote republican please....us military folks make more money that way.


mmmmkay thanks.

Actually, Bush has continuously pushed to cut back on Veterans' benefits and not paying extra for time spent deployed beyond what was originally scheduled.
he doesn't give a sh*t about a solider after he or she has served the country.
Bush also won't sign an updated G.I. Bill.

If the money has gone anywhere under these crooks in office now, it has not gone to our brave men and women in the armed forces, but instead to the mercenaries that work for Haliburton and their subsidiaries.

[JKinATL]

I agree that talking politics is highly important to the health of our country, but the problem occurs when you have people that don't have any idea what they're talking about, people that repeat what they're told by some guy they think is cool, and when people don't take the time to verify facts.

We used to be a republican democracy, but, I argue, we're not one anymore. We don't meet most of the major criteria of a democracy anymore, including the most important criteria: A well-informed electorate.

[aki]

US Senate (with a Democratic majority) just voted an additional $162 billion in funding for the wars in Afghan and Iraq.

BBC NEWS | Americas | US Senate approves war funds bill

[NRM]

Originally Posted by JKinATL

I agree that talking politics is highly important to the health of our country, but the problem occurs when you have people that don't have any idea what they're talking about, people that repeat what they're told by some guy they think is cool, and when people don't take the time to verify facts.

We used to be a republican democracy, but, I argue, we're not one anymore. We don't meet most of the major criteria of a democracy anymore, including the most important criteria: A well-informed electorate.

I completely agree. My hopes in discussions about politics and policies will spur an interest by the individuals. Because when that happens, we're no longer discussing flag pins and war records, but simply what is best for this great nation. When people become educated about the issue, that's when they start asking the right questions. And when people ask the right questions, it puts the politician's feet to the fire when it comes down to the REAL important issues.

Hence my main reason for not supporting Obama. His numbers don't crunch up. He has a huge lack of experience. He may promote hope and change, but what does that mean really? I have had to explain to dozens of people over the course of the past few months that HOPE and CHANGE are NOT policies. They are two words. Nothing more. The majority of people who are voting for Obama have no concrete reason as to why they are voting for him.

If you speak out against him. You don't like sick people, children, or old people. But really, it's that you don't agree with his policies that WILL NOT work.

[ffswizzlestick]

Originally Posted by JKinATL

Actually, Bush has continuously pushed to cut back on Veterans' benefits and not paying extra for time spent deployed beyond what was originally scheduled.
he doesn't give a sh*t about a solider after he or she has served the country.
Bush also won't sign an updated G.I. Bill.

If the money has gone anywhere under these crooks in office now, it has not gone to our brave men and women in the armed forces, but instead to the mercenaries that work for Haliburton and their subsidiaries.

The G.I. bill that has been rejected by Bush also included a domestic spending bill. Don't just say that he rejected a bill when some of that bill had nothing to do with veterans going to college.

[06CivEXJon]

And libs blame the oil companies...rofl. They want to socialise everything. You just cant take a free trading company away from shareholders because you feel like it. The weak dollar and increased spending from the U.S for two bullshit wars and the feds are making money like it's no tomorrow. Plus the libs wont let companies drill our resources in America thats why the gas prices are so high.

[ryker]

The GI Bill has worked awesome for me. I hate Bush and he has done nothing for me. But the VA GI bill worked great for me.

[Phalanx]

Originally Posted by NRM

I feel that people who say they aren't into politics are either super super busy with their own personal goals or completely reckless.

Please explain to me how i am 'completely reckless' for not giving 2 shits about politics. I dont care because Ill just do whatever I have to do and not bother questioning it. We have a government for a reason and they do a better job then I could do, so who would I be to criticize...

... However, there are a lot of people out there that do feel strongly about politics. So, I stay out of the picture and let everyone who cares figure shit out... how is that reckless? IMO, its more responsible than voting and voicing opinions arbitrarily when in the end, i dont really care.

[Forklift352]

Bilderburger...on youtube or google it. Their are people in this world that have more
money than God.....So what is left to do in life??? World Domination!!!
It starts out with sovren states joined by money(the uro)soon it will be the Amero.
And then camras at every corner,mall,parkinglot,back ally all going to a gov.run outfit.
Socialized gov. will be put in place.The people will WANT it.Laws will be passed to
limit ammo.....hell its already way spendy.So you can have all the guns you want but
ammo will be hard to come by.Tax will be up from 25% to 30% to 32% you get the idea
just like the price on full.And when almost all your money is going to your Gov.
Then reproduction is limetd.One child per house hold.THEY (the rich and powerful)
would like to bring down world pop. to 5000000 or so.Call me nutty but it dont matter
who is in any office them hands will be deep in my pocket....and it wont be the front.
I think the Afgan and Irak are a test.To see if USA can fight 2 full on wars at the same
time in 3world countrys.If it works it will be on to Africa....if it dont Rusia will then be
given a chance or maybe China

[NRM]

Originally Posted by Phalanx

Please explain to me how i am 'completely reckless' for not giving 2 shits about politics. I dont care because Ill just do whatever I have to do and not bother questioning it. We have a government for a reason and they do a better job then I could do, so who would I be to criticize...

... However, there are a lot of people out there that do feel strongly about politics. So, I stay out of the picture and let everyone who cares figure shit out... how is that reckless? IMO, its more responsible than voting and voicing opinions arbitrarily when in the end, i dont really care.

The government is an entity for the people, by the people, for the people. When we neglect that, the government ends up being run by the small groups that run it for all people.

I still stand by my position.

Look, the government and it's policies run EVERY aspect of our lives. Granted, I believe in smaller limited federal government and more into a local state government. But from gas prices, to our failing education system, to the TAXES you pay on every paycheck, the government is there. To ignore that is to ignore the core values of this country.

Currently I'm seeing oh so many Obama supporters. But you ask them what their favorite policies of his and they'll blatantly respond "HOPE and CHANGE." WTF, those are NOT policies. Those are two words. "We'll he's different, we need different." For the better or for the worse. Give me a reason. He appeals mostly to those who don't understand politics and the way it works. And it drives me CRAZY.

Why do I say it's reckless? Simply enough. It's your country, its your life, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. The less people who care, the more likely we are to be run by a corrupt government. The more that we care, the better questions that will be asked, the more likely our politicians will have their feet to the fire and answer the REAL HARD questions. Not about flag pins, not about marijuana, but about the direction our great country is going.

A child now graduating from high school now has the math proficiency of a student in the 7th grade just 50 years ago. And why? BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T CARE ABOUT POLITICS. Do you honestly believe that if more people actually cared and demanded a system that WORKS, we couldn't do it? Hell, if that were the case, YOU could do it.

To not care about politics is to ignore that greatest things in your life. The cash in your back pocket, your kids, your life. The system was put in place for us. Imagine if everyone ignored it. How screwed would we be then? The biggest problem is that you think the government does a better job than you would do. Hold a higher value for yourself and maybe you'll think differently.

We as a nation has made many mistakes. Our government has made many great mistakes. But I honestly believe that had we been more educated and asked the questions that are really important to us, we could have avoided many of the problems we face today.

So I'll say it again. To ignore politics or to overlook it shows that you MUST be very busy or completely reckless.

The mindset about not questioning government because you think they do a better job is the perfect example. Imagine if there were a 100 million like you. And then imagine if the government knew that. Game over.

[splew]

Oh man, not another endless bickering thread

[TcivicT3]

we should just drill for oil, not rely on other countries. Don't we have a ton of oil off the coast and in Alaska? Forget about the natural wildlife, I want cheaper gas.