Don't Ask, Don't Tell

[Special Ringpop]

Don't Ask Don't Tell: Exclusive Video Only on Yahoo! News

After watching a 60 Minutes segment on the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy (and how incredibly absurd it is), I want to bring a debate forward.

Why do we still have this system that does NOT work and costs the government ridiculous amounts of money every year. Why is almost nothing done to combat anti-*** rhetoric and violence in the military?

Because of this absurd war, we've dropped the gate door and opened it to convicted felons, rapists, and other societal "deviants" who commit unspeakable crimes against unwilling others, giving them massive enlistment and re-enlistment bonuses, yet we've turned away thousands (and discharged just as many) *** people in the military simply because they are attracted to the same-sex: a willing, consenting union.

Someone please tell me how felons, who potentially hurt innocent people, are better for the "moral fiber" of this country than a man in a committed relationship to another man

Someone please tell me what benefit this "great nation" gains by throwing out a trained medic or an Arabic translator because of what they do in the bedroom? Someone in the 60 Minutes segment mentioned that it was "different" when they didn't allow blacks in the forces. How? They used to separate their blood for transfusions because the blood was "different" and "lesser".

Nothing. It keeps us stuck in the past, refusing to move on.

[Phalanx]

Im straight and Im with ya 100% on that one. Nice post

[SoCal07Si]

Originally Posted by Phalanx

Im straight and Im with ya 100% on that one. Nice post

[MBK]

not all felons committ "unspeakable" crimes or should have been convicted a felon in the first place... that a bit hypocritical of you to say buddy

[illusionstwice]

Originally Posted by Phalanx

Im straight and Im with ya 100% on that one. Nice post

x 3


Waiting for the ignorant fools who cant accept people for who they are.

[SoCal07Si]

Originally Posted by MBK

not all felons committ "unspeakable" crimes or should have been convicted a felon in the first place... that a bit hypocritical of you to say buddy

I skipped right over that part. Just so u know, convicted felons are not allowed to carry a firearm, hence, are not allowed to enlist in the military.

[Special Ringpop]

Originally Posted by Phalanx

Im straight and Im with ya 100% on that one. Nice post

Thank you. To me, this isn't about being *** or straight. It's about being human. Does it matter to me who you sleep with (legally) when you go home at night? I don't suspect someone being shot at by an insurgent really cares about the moral ramifications of the homosexual that just took out the person shooting at him: what matters is that they have each others backs.

I've studied extensively both sides of the debate and I can truly see no logical reason to continue this policy. Britain has chosen it's battle carefully for years; long before they allowed gays to serve openly. That didn't change anything.

The arguments in favor of keeping DADT seem to be those of moral backgrounds. What's different about the moral arguments people made against blacks in the military? They were inferior, after all, weren't they? Teddy Roosevelt in a battle in Cuba (I think it was Cuba) had his entire regime's ass saved by a group of black soldiers. When he went home, he turned it around and claimed they were running from battle, and following the white man's cues, even though the black regime were the ones willing to go into the battle first.

Same logic, different era. One's a color, one's a lifestyle. There have been moral (religious and personal) objections to both blackness and homosexuality for years.

[GlxyGry06Si]

to my knowledge its not in the miltiary anymore. this was brought up when i first got in the air force and they told me that gays are allowed in but just can not act on any of their *** impulses. ie. no kissing other guys, holding hands, having sex.... i guess whatever they do in private is kept secret.

[illusionstwice]

Originally Posted by MBK

not all felons committ "unspeakable" crimes or should have been convicted a felon in the first place... that a bit hypocritical of you to say buddy

Because of this absurd war, we've dropped the gate door and opened it to convicted felons, rapists, and other societal "deviants" who commit unspeakable crimes against unwilling others

It should be obvious he was refering to the type of crimes listed, which are considered "unspeakable" and deviant acts against society.

A felonious crime sounds bad, but can simply be deifined as selling xx amount of crack. Yes its bad your selling, but its not as bad as a rape, murder, or in this case...crime against humanity for ones sexual preference.

[illusionstwice]

Originally Posted by SoCal07Si

I skipped right over that part. Just so u know, convicted felons are not allowed to carry a firearm, hence, are not allowed to enlist in the military.

... cant vote either.

Originally Posted by GlxyGry06Si

to my knowledge its not in the miltiary anymore. this was brought up when i first got in the air force and they told me that gays are allowed in but just can not act on any of their *** impulses. ie. no kissing other guys, holding hands, having sex.... i guess whatever they do in private is kept secret.

HENCE.... Dont ask dont tell

[MBK]

yeah and its retail theft over like $250 or something so you steal one PS3 and the court can mark you a felon... thats no heinous crime

[Special Ringpop]

Originally Posted by MBK

not all felons committ "unspeakable" crimes or should have been convicted a felon in the first place... that a bit hypocritical of you to say buddy

"The data indicate that from 2003 through 2006, the military allowed 4,230 convicted felons to enlist under the "moral waivers" program, which enables otherwise unqualified candidates to serve. In addition, 43,977 individuals convicted of serious misdemeanors such as assault were permitted to enlist under the moral waivers program during that period, as were 58,561 illegal drug abusers. In the Army, allowable offenses include making terrorist threats, murder, and kidnapping"
--pp. 35-36, Army Regulation 601-210.

Chances are...most people of those thousands of individuals were guilty of the charges.

Your argument lacks substantial evidence. It's entirely based in your opinions and I fail to see how any statement I've make could be construed as even remotely hypocritical. The facts speak for themselves: of course not EVERY convicted felon truly is guilty, but how many do you think are truly innocent? You'd be naive to think that out of 50,000+ people, most weren't truly guilty. A felony is a felony, unspeakable or not. There is utterly nothing MORAL about it.

[GlxyGry06Si]

Originally Posted by illusionstwice

HENCE.... Dont ask dont tell

no. they can be asked and can tell without repercussions. they just cant practice the lifestyle. they can run around base with a *** pride flag and tell everyone they meet that they are ***.

[illusionstwice]

Originally Posted by MBK

yeah and its retail theft over like $250 or something so you steal one PS3 and the court can mark you a felon... thats no heinous crime

Its called Grand Larceny.

May not be a heinous crime per sey, however everything has a value. Sounds like you or someone u know was charged with something similar? You just sound bitter...

[MBK]

what so you can pass judgement on everyone that the state deems "felons" but you dont want anyone passing judgement on you that hypocritical aint it?

[Special Ringpop]

Originally Posted by MBK

yeah and its retail theft over like $250 or something so you steal one PS3 and the court can mark you a felon... thats no heinous crime

You are gracing over the entire point.

A felony is a felony. Yes, there are some that are more heinous than others, but there is still absolutely nothing moral or just in anything that warrants a felony conviction.

I don't care what your religious feelings are, two men or two women sleeping together, consentually, are doing absolutely nothing wrong or hurting others in any way, shape, or form.

So, in attempting to disprove my notion of felonies being a major conflict of interest, you've only bolstered my point, so I thank you:

Felonies vary in degrees of severity, yes, but no one in their right mind would possibly say that any felonious act is worthy of merit or the "backbone of American patriotism" now would they? So you steal a Playstation 3 and get a felony (doubtful, by the way). You still stole and commited an illegal act that hurts a business and other consumers. What does my kissing my boyfriend at night have to do with hurting others? Precisely.

[illusionstwice]

Originally Posted by GlxyGry06Si

no. they can be asked and can tell without repercussions. they just cant practice the lifestyle. they can run around base with a *** pride flag and tell everyone they meet that they are ***.

yeah but think about it, ... what u just said is so true. HOWEVER.... if a homesexual was in the army and meets another homosexual, and they want to get it in... THEY CANT. Because no one wants to know about it, witness it, hear it, or have the act reflect on the US armed forces in any way. HENCE..dont ask, Dont tell. Its like one big circle. They let you in, but if u want to bite the pillow, they dont want to know.

Its like letting a fat kid look at cake, but say "nah man.. u cant eat it. Just drool"

[SIcBoy]

Originally Posted by Phalanx

Im straight and Im with ya 100% on that one. Nice post

same boat as this guy
but then again in not in the military

[Special Ringpop]

Originally Posted by GlxyGry06Si

no. they can be asked and can tell without repercussions. they just cant practice the lifestyle. they can run around base with a *** pride flag and tell everyone they meet that they are ***.

While I think it is more acceptable to be open now (case in point one of the video segments), I find it incredibly hard to believe that scenario could be plausible, given the fact that I have several friends who were rejected at the recruitment office when they refused to deny that they were ***.

If they were refused admission to the services (especially when the military is so unbelievably desperate for recruits) during enlistment paperwork, I doubt talking about being *** in the military is met with favorable reactions.

But every situation is different. I think the anti-*** rhetoric in the military says enough.

[illusionstwice]

Originally Posted by MBK

what so you can pass judgement on everyone that the state deems "felons" but you dont want anyone passing judgement on you that hypocritical aint it?

Im not passing judgement. I can care less what your crimes may be. Now if you raped a little girl or something thats different, but I assume thats not the case.

Im just engaging in an adult conversation. Apparently speaking about sensitive issues cannot be handled by you. now THATS passing judgement.

Do us all a favor and dont take things to heart. We're trying to have a good convo