Manhunt 2

[firmhonda]

Okay, so I'm sure that we've all heard about the whole Manhunt 2 debacle by now. What I'm curious about is if you agree with the ESRB or not.

I understand that the game is extremely violent and graphic (albeit to bad graphics), but what made this game stand out above all the M rated games that are perfectly fine to be released? One of the levels in the game is supposed to take place in a sex establishment to where all kinds of explicit things are seen, but isn't that an objective in GTA? At one point in the game it's optimal to buy a strip club.. What about Saints Row? A set of missions in that game consists of picking up an escort, picking up her date, and driving around while she gives him head without being in close range of a photographer. While at a safe distance she makes all kinds of noises that let you know exactly what is going on in the backseat of your car, but that's not as explicit as simply being in an establishment in a game somehow. I think this is pure b/s.

But who is really to blame about this whole ordeal, the ESRB for the unfair rating, or Sony and Nintendo for deciding to exclude any games that would be tagged with the AO rating? If Sony and Nintendo had kept their noses out of other peoples business and let the state government do it's job in carding people that wanted to buy an AO rated game this wouldn't be so much of a problem. I can understand that the wii is supposed to be a family console, but the ps2 is just a freakin ps2. By name it's a Play - Station for all ages. Does that mean that any 8 year old should be able to buy this game (or any other rockstar game for that matter) and go home and play it? Hell no.. but that's why the esrb exists in the first place... to let consumers know what the game itself consists of and let them make an educated decision because of that.

I read a blog @ ign.com earlier that made a lot of sense:

Originally Posted by ign blog

Imagine if DVD manufacturers like Hitachi and Samsung came out and said, "Sorry, folks, but you're NC-17 movies won't be allowed on our players." These hardware manufacturers create the platforms, but they don't police them. There is another difference between the two industries.

This would never happen though. Why? Because manufacturers of dvd players realise that it's retarded to try and control everything that someone would want to watch with their product... this is why they have rating systems, as well as parental controlled rating blocks built in.

Also, if the AO rating had been accepted by Sony and Nintendo do you think it would have still been given the rating, or would it have been banned for other reasons? They knew that giving it this rating would essentially ban it, so they gave it this rating.

One last question is, Where the hell is Microsoft in this whole ordeal? To the best of my knowledge Manhunt was originally supposed to be Rockstar's microsoft exclusive game, which they later changed and released to the ps2. So that being said, this game should be released on the original xbox as well as the ps2 and wii, right? I've never heard of microsoft banning any rating of game.. I bet it does have the same policy, but now would be a good time to abandon ship and sell a hell of a lot of games there, Bill.. I know I'd go repo my original xbox from my cousins apartment in a heartbeat if this game was released for it, so would a lot of other people I'm sure.



in case you haven't read about the whole ordeal, here are some links:
http://wii.ign.com/articles/798/798639p1.html

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/27629/Fils...de-of-spectrum

http://www.gwn.com/news/story.php/id...Manhunt_2.html

and there are several more..

[firmhonda]

Wow, I thought there were more gamers on the ocho..

[BLAZETIGER]

Originally Posted by firmhonda

Wow, I thought there were more gamers on the ocho..

I'm sure there are, but in my case Manhunt is a game I'm totally not interested in or planned on purchasing. The whole game is excessive in it's attempt to be gory and brutal. Of course keep in mind that I have a 5 yr old and a 2 yr old in my household and there's no way in HELL that I'd want them to play or even watch me play it (I have to try to be some kind of role model for my kids).

I do play other games that are somewhat bloody like Gears of War, and even these games I play when the kids are in bed or not around, but the whole Manhunt theme seemed senseless. I'll eagerly await Bioshock, Lair, and a couple other games slated for this year.

Maybe it was banned for more than those reasons you mentioned. I remember reading that the Wii version you would have to do the motions with your Wiimote like using a saw to sever someone's head.

[aodmisery]

im a big gamer but to tell you the truth i can care less about this game graphics look like crap compared to new games, so what ever happens with the game who cares... by the way have you seen the new GTA IV trailer check it out, just came out today 6-28-07

[firmhonda]

I fully respect your view, and understand why you wouldn't want to play a game like that around your kids or have it avaliable for them to play for that matter. My problem is this, why is there a rating system at all if it's just there to be exploited by the commission itself? Many people have reviewed this game, and not a single one has said that it deserved the a/o rating UNLESS most of the games that have only earned an m rating would've ended up with the same rating.

Their main complaint (it seems to be) is that the 5 second videos that play when you kill someone are extremely graphic, but Scarface (a game that only got an M rating) had a mission that you had to cut people up with a chainsaw for over 2 minutes. The language was more graphic in scarface, and the violence was more excessive... so why does a game with less violence, less colorful language, etc. get a higher rating?

Answer: Because it's made by Rockstar and the rating board knew that if they gave it an a/o rating it would basically be banned.

Also, I'm not going to try and talk you into playing the game or anything, but the original was an addictive as hell game to play. It's not trying to go out of its way to be as bloody as possible, it's trying to be more like a horror movie than any other game. The first Manhunt's story line was basically this: A guy got kidnapped by a psychopath, the psycho also kindapped the guys family. To save his family, the guy made him go through a series of challenges that included killing people that were trying to kill him..

Again, I'm not trying to talk you into playing it or anything, I'm just explaining the game a little better so you could understand that it's not about just being the bloodiest game ever made, it just used violence in a way that no other game has to give the horror movie theme more... captivating if you will.

[aodmisery]

Originally Posted by firmhonda

I fully respect your view, and understand why you wouldn't want to play a game like that around your kids or have it avaliable for them to play for that matter. My problem is this, why is there a rating system at all if it's just there to be exploited by the commission itself? Many people have reviewed this game, and not a single one has said that it deserved the a/o rating UNLESS most of the games that have only earned an m rating would've ended up with the same rating.

Their main complaint (it seems to be) is that the 5 second videos that play when you kill someone are extremely graphic, but Scarface (a game that only got an M rating) had a mission that you had to cut people up with a chainsaw for over 2 minutes. The language was more graphic in scarface, and the violence was more excessive... so why does a game with less violence, less colorful language, etc. get a higher rating?

Answer: Because it's made by Rockstar and the rating board knew that if they gave it an a/o rating it would basically be banned.

Also, I'm not going to try and talk you into playing the game or anything, but the original was an addictive as hell game to play. It's not trying to go out of its way to be as bloody as possible, it's trying to be more like a horror movie than any other game. The first Manhunt's story line was basically this: A guy got kidnapped by a psychopath, the psycho also kindapped the guys family. To save his family, the guy made him go through a series of challenges that included killing people that were trying to kill him..

Again, I'm not trying to talk you into playing it or anything, I'm just explaining the game a little better so you could understand that it's not about just being the bloodiest game ever made, it just used violence in a way that no other game has to give the horror movie theme more... captivating if you will.

true that..

[firmhonda]

Originally Posted by aodmisery

im a big gamer but to tell you the truth i can care less about this game graphics look like crap compared to new games, so what ever happens with the game who cares... by the way have you seen the new GTA IV trailer check it out, just came out today 6-28-07

The game looks like crap because it's for playstation.

No, but seriously, it was made for the ps2 & wii so that Take 2 wouldn't have to create an entirely different game just because sony was dumb enough (imo) to make a system that was based off of a technology that only it was using... That's why I think Microsoft should jump on this whole ordeal and convince Take 2 to make the game for the original xbox.. it would sell like e-crack

[Geaux]

IF it ever hits shelves, Ill buy it just to **** around with it (Wii). Its not like I would actually kill or slice and dice someone, but something about doing it with a wiimote intrigues me lol.

[firmhonda]

Oh, I'll definitely be buying this game when it finally gets released.. I just hope they don't ruin it because of some stupid rating board that's a little drunk with power.

[jonebone]

Granted the ESRB has had a grudge with Rockstar ever since that coffee mod came out for GTA III with the sexual content... BUT I don't really think they are out of line here.

Originally Posted by firmhonda

Again, I'm not trying to talk you into playing it or anything, I'm just explaining the game a little better so you could understand that it's not about just being the bloodiest game ever made, it just used violence in a way that no other game has to give the horror movie theme more... captivating if you will.

Well there you go answering your own question. You argue this game isn't as violent as scarface or GTA III, and doesn't nearly use as much profane language. Then you state they are trying to be innovative and set a precedence by basically creating a R rated horror movie into a game. So in fact they ARE worse than the previous games.

Running around cutting up someone with a chainsaw for 2 minutes with crappy blood animations and detail is nowhere near as bad as watching a 5 second slow motion decapitation or whatever it may be. They took a risk and the ESRB put them in their place. The developers should have had the foresight to know that the ESRB would meet them with resistance. They didn't care, and now they are in a world of hurt.

Its like riding around with 5% limo tint and then complaining when you get a fix-it ticket. You took the risk, you pay the consequence. The ESRB is the police of the video game world, you can't hate them for doing their job.

I remember when I was young, maybe 10-12 I had very little problems with buying M rated games or CDs. Every now and then someone wouldn't sell to me, but then I'd go somewhere else and get the game anyway. Unless stores take M rated games seriously and treat them as important as cigarettes (when it comes to selling to minors), then a M rating doesn't mean a damn anyways. You get lots of young kids that work the electronics sections and they usually could care less about who buys the damn game. Of course I'm 23 now, so I don't know if the times have changed... (perhaps they have), but I seriously doubt it.

My .02

[firmhonda]

I would honor your point 100%, if this was the first manhunt. This is the sequal, and it is made the same way the first one was made (without resistance I might add). In the original manhunt the death scenes are 5 seconds long and consist of something like.. You taking a wire, sneaking up behind someone, choking them from behind with it, and then sawing the wire back and forth spraying blood onto the "camera" until the head falls off. What was the rating for this game? MA, as it should be.
As for the children buying ratings above their age point, that has nothing to do with the esrb themselves. To me that's like blaming the fcc for allowing porn to be on tv, while it's only the parents fault for allowing little ten-year-old timmy to watch it all day. The esrb shouldn't take an establishments laziness into consideration when applying a rating to a game, that should just give it the rating that it deserves and go home.. but they didn't do that this time.
It seems that the only justification that they are giving about this rating is simply the violence, which is staged just like the original manhunt that was released 4 years ago. What is really the deal then?

Side note - the graphics suck on this game too, trust me.. it looks like every other ps2 game out there. Not to say that there aren't great ps2 games, just they're not great looking.

[Anubis]

Nice post. I enjoyed the heck out of the original manhunt, and will buy 2 whenever it makes it out. I am sorta on the fence about the best way to handle the situation, and can certainly make an agrument for both. In the end people who want it will buy it, and people who don't won't. my $.02

[CaliGuy]

Ok, I played Manhunt 1 on PC and I think it is far more brutal than GTA (Scarface too). You are making snuff films! It is cold hearted, ruthless, dark violence. GTA is almost comical (Scarface not so much), but Manhunt is just plain evil. Don't get me wrong I loved Manhunt for the fact that it was so evil and dark. I think it does deserve a rating above the others. Should it be banned? Hell no!

It's not just the surface violence of the game it's the sadistic content...

It is not the kind of violence you can laugh at (like GTA)...It's very, very evil! I remember the scene in 1 where they are torturing and kill your family...I mean, the fact is, Manhunt is over the top...

[CaliGuy]

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[firmhonda]

Originally Posted by CaliGuy

Ok, I played Manhunt 1 on PC and I think it is far more brutal than GTA (Scarface too). You are making snuff films! It is cold hearted, ruthless, dark violence. GTA is almost comical (Scarface not so much), but Manhunt is just plain evil. Don't get me wrong I loved Manhunt for the fact that it was so evil and dark. I think it does deserve a rating above the others. Should it be banned? Hell no!

It's not just the surface violence of the game it's the sadistic content...

It is not the kind of violence you can laugh at (like GTA)...It's very, very evil! I remember the scene in 1 where they are torturing and kill your family...I mean, the fact is, Manhunt is over the top...

First off, thanks to you and everyone else for the input. Now, the way I look at it is like this.. GTA & Scarface is a 5 gallon bucket of violence where manhunt is a 3 gallon bucket.. sure manhunt is stronger in its violence, but if you look at quantity instead of quality the other two have waaay more violence in them. Hell, even fable had a great deal of violence in it when compared to manhunt, but manhunt was made to be a more sadistic kind of violence instead of a "hey, look at me. I'm shooting a cop" kind of violence.

I think the first Manhunt was a fantastic game, it was made to be more like a horror movie than an actual game where you can be violent if you choose.. Since you brought up the fact that it was a snuff film I'll say this, does that mean that 8mm (w/Nicholas Cage) should've been rated nc17 instead of R? The mask (I think that was his name) said at the end of that movie that he didn't kill because his family was screwed up, or because he had a domination issue, he just killed because he liked to kill. That's pretty messed up right there, and my girl had a nightmare after she saw that movie for the first time because of it. But the fact remains, just because it was a different kind of horror movie didn't mean that it was above all other horror movies.. When it comes down to it, the Friday the 13th series actually had more killing in it.


Also, now that the rating board is on a little kick, the previews for the game Dark Sector have now been banned also. They said the commercials (although run of the mill with video games now-a-days) went over the top and the commercials will not be aired anymore. Why? If you ask me it's because they're trying to "cover their tracks," if you will, for going overboard with the way they handled this Manhunt 2 fiasco.

I personally think this is outrageous, you have kkk members going on and on preaching some of the most horrible things that can be taught and they get away with it because of freedom of speech, but don't make a game that has movie-themed scenes in it or we'll ban you. Companies should be able to make whatever game that they want and unless it has some seriously triple x throwdown rape kind of stuff in it (with full nudity), it should be given an ma rating. This game has no rape, no full nudity, no dp, no graphic sexual scenes.. but it gets a rating that only games like that have.

[firmhonda]

Originally Posted by CaliGuy

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