Playstation 3? - Page 3

skittleslegend · 09-09-2006, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dentrecords

Totally, Skittles. To me as well, it seems that the PS3 will flop. All the Sony fanboys are saying they'll put up $600+ for their beloved console, but when it comes down to it, I'm sure more than a few people will say they'll wait for the price to drop... but then see the 360's price at half the PS3's with near identical games (apart from console exclusives) and ask themselves why they are waiting for this more expensive thing again. Sony's proprietary Blu-ray format has increased the price substantially, while also significantly decreasing the availability of the console due to parts constraints, effectively locking many would be early adopters out and driving them over to the much cheaper 360.

You nailed my exact thoughts right on the head. At the end of the day, it's about affordability. And the Blu-ray technology is destined to join the ranks of UMD, Minidisc, ATRAC, Beta....pretty much, just about all of the paths they've tried to take have ended up being dead-ends. They're fools for not jumping on HD-DVD and going with Blu-ray. With the high number of HD television sets said to be in homes across America in the next 5 or 6 years, I don't see Blu-ray becoming a household name, especially as early on as some of these developers have been abandoning it. It sounds dope as shizzz though... :)

BATANG CITY JAIL · 09-09-2006, 03:48 AM

x-box vs PS.... its like chevy vs honda...

skittleslegend · 09-09-2006, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BATANG CITY JAIL

x-box vs PS.... its like chevy vs honda...

Uh....not really. lol. It's more like homemade peach cobbler vs. store bought gourmet peach cobbler. I'm sure they're both good, but one's a helluva lot cheaper and almost always more satisfying....

JeShUa · 09-09-2006, 04:26 PM

Yeah.. I agree with the blu ray vs hd dvd thought that... blu ray players are very expensive, and so are the discs.. and they have lower quality than hd dvd.. so I dont understand why they're even trying to go that route??
cheaper higher resolution? Hm.. hard concept.. I like what microsoft produces to say the least as I have a ps2 and am not entirely contempt with it althought I never play it so have no incentive to upgrade.

BLAZETIGER · 09-10-2006, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firmhonda

Sorry, I'm a little late to hope back on this thread.. But I will anyways.

It really depends on what you mean.. The selection for ps2 games was waay better than x-box's, but the quality of games were nowhere near xbox.
xbox had better graphics, faster load times (in most cases), smoother gameplay, and internal memory. IMO, xbox owns ps2. Just like I think that xbox360 will own ps3. Sony is really playing their devoted fans for fools, and I don't think a lot of them will stand by them for it. $600 for a fu**ing game system?!?? Someone above mentioned neo-geo.. sounds about right.

Once again you just reiterated my case. The software (games) were better, but the Hardware (xbox system) was superior. I own both systems and when a game came out for both systems I'd usually opt for the Xbox system vs the PS2. As far as game selection though Sony usually blew them away.

As far as the XBOX 360 goes, yes it's been out for a year, but the game librabry is barely hitting its stride. Most of the game selection has been pitiful. There are a few games that I can enjoy, but not many games I can play with my kids. I'm anxiously awaiting Lego Star Wars as sad as it sounds since I know that is a game my kids can play (oldest is 4).

If you see the PS3 as a game system then thats why you are having trouble with the price point. With all the hardware features it has it is well worth the price. $600 with built in Blu Ray with 1080p. XBox 360 is standard DVD. There is supposed to be an HD DVD option that you can add on, but that only takes you to 720p. Compare an XBOX 360 with the add on and you end up paying the same for a lower quality picture.

skittleslegend · 09-10-2006, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLAZETIGER

I'm anxiously awaiting Lego Star Wars as sad as it sounds since I know that is a game my kids can play (oldest is 4).

I saw the ad for it this morning. I think I wanna pick it up :)

God of War and God of War 2 FTW though

BLAZETIGER · 09-10-2006, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeShUa

Yeah.. I agree with the blu ray vs hd dvd thought that... blu ray players are very expensive, and so are the discs.. and they have lower quality than hd dvd.. so I dont understand why they're even trying to go that route??
cheaper higher resolution? Hm.. hard concept.. I like what microsoft produces to say the least as I have a ps2 and am not entirely contempt with it althought I never play it so have no incentive to upgrade.

Do your homework first. Blu Ray is far superior than HD DVD.

HD DVD
Maximum native resolutions supported via HDMI: 720p, 1080i
Disk Capacity:
15GB (single layer)
30GB (dual layer)
45GB (prototype triple layer)

Manufacturer Support: Toshiba, LG, Thomson/RCA
Studio Support: Paramount, Studio Canal, Universal, Warner, the Weinstein Company

Blu Ray
Maximum native resolutions supported via HDMI: 720p, 1080i, 1080p
Disk Capacity:
25GB (single layer)
50GB (dual layer)
100GB (prototype quad layer)

Manufacturer Support:
Hitachi, Mitsubishi, LG, Sharp, Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, Philips, Thomson/RCA
Studio Support:
Sony Pictures (including MGM/Columbia TriStar), Disney (including Touchstone, Miramax), Fox, Paramount, Warner, Lions Gate

Forgot to mention that both HD DVD players and Blu Ray players will share a similar price point. Price for the actuall DVDs themselves they cost the same. Also, like I posted above you can't compare the 360 to PS3 DVD playback capabilities. They are similar game machines, but the 360 is a regular DVD player with 480p and no upconversion (similar to your cheap $30 no name brand) while the PS3 is a Blu Ray player with 1080p.

BLAZETIGER · 09-10-2006, 01:45 AM

For the record I own all systems including the original Xbox and the Xbox 360. I guess I'm as close to a "Sony Fanboy" though since I've always liked them best. I'm not close minded though as I do have a few Microsoft favorites. (Still waiting for Gears of War and Halo 3. Just picked up Test Drive Unlimited and Madden 07).

**Gonzo** · 09-10-2006, 02:17 AM

The argument that the 360 doesn't have enough stellar games for its first year is a pretty weak argument if it comes from a diehard Sony fanboy. I can think of another console that had a poor showing its first year. It was called the PS2.

As far as BluRay vs HD-DVD, I wouldn't nesicarily go about telling other people they are the ones that need to do homework. The battle is hardly about which could be best, it has much more to do with practicality and politics. (Ie: Not which looks best on paper but which is best in practice) The articles on wikipedia alone do a good job of explaining the pros and cons of both formats. If you read them you would see that HD-DVD has a far more likely chance of gaining the foothold in the market than BluRay, to oversimplify, mainly because it is more practical. Feel free to investigate.

Sadly, Sony recently had to halve its expected number of launch units due specifically to BluRay hardware shortages. The 360 had a rather sketchy launch, but it looks like Sony may even outdo Microsoft on this one.

The worst part of it for Sony fans is that there just seems to be no end of bad news about the PS3. It seems every time news about the PS3 comes out, even news straight from Sony, it is largely highlighted with dissapointment.

I'd like to see the PS3 succeed, since competition drives innovation, but Sony seems to be repeatedly dropping the ball on this one. I have been surprised again and again by the problems they have encountered (many of them not exactly hard to predict...) and will be impressed if the console can actually meet Sony's more conservative goals for the first year.

As far as the Wii, at first I thought it would be a disaster for Nintendo, but the more I learn about Nintendo's plans for the system, I can't help but feel like they could be making a good investment. Though they are restricting themselves to a good degree, it may end up being a fun little system. They are taking very different route from any console before it and I'm curious to see where they will end up.

BLAZETIGER · 09-10-2006, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzo

The argument that the 360 doesn't have enough stellar games for its first year is a pretty weak argument if it comes from a diehard Sony fanboy. I can think of another console that had a poor showing its first year. It was called the PS2.

As far as BluRay vs HD-DVD, I wouldn't nesicarily go about telling other people they are the ones that need to do homework. The battle is hardly about which could be best, it has much more to do with practicality and politics. (Ie: Not which looks best on paper but which is best in practice) The articles on wikipedia alone do a good job of explaining the pros and cons of both formats. If you read them you would see that HD-DVD has a far more likely chance of gaining the foothold in the market than BluRay, to oversimplify, mainly because it is more practical. Feel free to investigate.

Sadly, Sony recently had to halve its expected number of launch units due specifically to BluRay hardware shortages. The 360 had a rather sketchy launch, but it looks like Sony may even outdo Microsoft on this one.

The worst part of it for Sony fans is that there just seems to be no end of bad news about the PS3. It seems every time news about the PS3 comes out, even news straight from Sony, it is largely highlighted with dissapointment.

I'd like to see the PS3 succeed, since competition drives innovation, but Sony seems to be repeatedly dropping the ball on this one. I have been surprised again and again by the problems they have encountered (many of them not exactly hard to predict...) and will be impressed if the console can actually meet Sony's more conservative goals for the first year.

As far as the Wii, at first I thought it would be a disaster for Nintendo, but the more I learn about Nintendo's plans for the system, I can't help but feel like they could be making a good investment. Though they are restricting themselves to a good degree, it may end up being a fun little system. They are taking very different route from any console before it and I'm curious to see where they will end up.

Good argument. My "do your homework" comment was made in reference to the "they have a lower picture quality than HD DVD" comment made earlier. On paper it would show as Blu Ray the clear winner. Could you explain the practicality and politics issue? I thought the only edge HD DVD had was that it released sooner thus having an earlier foothold in the market.

As for the 1st year poor showing for the PS2 that would explain why I didn't drop a dime to buy it until almost year 2. I guess I was just expecting more from Microsoft since they wanted to "get the jump" on both Nintendo and Sony. They released early, but I just wished they had more games to push them over the edge. When the PS2 released it was also the first one out so I guess they felt they had no need to get creative until Xbox reared its head.

I have to agree witht the constant bad news for the PS3 even with rumors of a delayed launch. I still have high hopes for it though. As for the Wii I too think it will be an awesome little system. Entirely original and with a new approach.

Diablo99V · 09-10-2006, 03:23 PM

People call others Sony fanboy etc... I think they need a mirror. At the end of the day its not how you start but how you finish. Now can you run those numbers again for the PS2? You are welcome to run them again for the PS3 by the end of next year.
Delays on launch do not affect the performance, that performance is the one that is going to shit on the Xbox. Even the underpowered Wii will come up to the battle with agression and in my believe offering a better package then Microsoft, only time will tell (you are welcome to visit this thread once is settled at the end). I think Microsoft makes great things like Word but they should of stayed in that department.

Diablo99V · 09-10-2006, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLAZETIGER

Do your homework first. Blu Ray is far superior than HD DVD.

HD DVD
Maximum native resolutions supported via HDMI: 720p, 1080i
Disk Capacity:
15GB (single layer)
30GB (dual layer)
45GB (prototype triple layer)

Manufacturer Support: Toshiba, LG, Thomson/RCA
Studio Support: Paramount, Studio Canal, Universal, Warner, the Weinstein Company

Blu Ray
Maximum native resolutions supported via HDMI: 720p, 1080i, 1080p
Disk Capacity:
25GB (single layer)
50GB (dual layer)
100GB (prototype quad layer)

Manufacturer Support:
Hitachi, Mitsubishi, LG, Sharp, Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, Philips, Thomson/RCA
Studio Support:
Sony Pictures (including MGM/Columbia TriStar), Disney (including Touchstone, Miramax), Fox, Paramount, Warner, Lions Gate

Forgot to mention that both HD DVD players and Blu Ray players will share a similar price point. Price for the actuall DVDs themselves they cost the same. Also, like I posted above you can't compare the 360 to PS3 DVD playback capabilities. They are similar game machines, but the 360 is a regular DVD player with 480p and no upconversion (similar to your cheap $30 no name brand) while the PS3 is a Blu Ray player with 1080p.

I guess Blu-Ray has a nice future. Where did you guys get that HD-DVD has better quality?

**firmhonda** · 09-10-2006, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diablo99V

People call others Sony fanboy etc... I think they need a mirror. At the end of the day its not how you start but how you finish. Now can you run those numbers again for the PS2? You are welcome to run them again for the PS3 by the end of next year.
Delays on launch do not affect the performance, that performance is the one that is going to shit on the Xbox. Even the underpowered Wii will come up to the battle with agression and in my believe offering a better package then Microsoft, only time will tell (you are welcome to visit this thread once is settled at the end). I think Microsoft makes great things like Word but they should of stayed in that department.

Well, that's kind of narrow minded don't you think? I mean, everyone has an opinion.. That being said my opinion is that is crazy to even think. I give props to sony for what they pioneered for the gaming system world, but microsoft did quite a bit for it with the xbox. Having a reasonably priced gaming system with internal memory, dvd playback, faster load times, better graphics, etc. etc. etc. set a new bar for all systems produced after it. Sony has pushed back the release for the ps3 too many times to count for a reason, they're stepping into dangerous territory with trying to be the first to corner a technological market. If sony succeeds, which I don't think they will, they will have blu-ray sales skyrocketing and be the company that led the next revolution in hd.. I personally think that the only way sony will stay afloat is if all the playstation fans stick with them. That's a lot to ask when to even take advantage of the features of it (if you don't already have an hd-tv) will cost around 2 g's.
I don't know, I can't say I know everything about the entire situation so I'll leave it at this and anyone can correct anything that I may have been wrong about. *this is my opinion*
Sony's PS3 will flop because of the rediculous price and the probability that the blu-ray will flop.
Microsoft will then start working on another new system to answer demand for a true hd game system that doesn't cost as much as a used cavalier.
Apple will start working on a way to produce they're hd leading tech into a game system that will own all.

BTW - I've had my 360 since the night it came out.. and never had a single problem with it. A friend of mine picked up his 360 a few months later, and his was faulty. It took a total of 30 seconds to fix and he has never had another problem since then.

/rant

skittleslegend · 09-10-2006, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diablo99V

I guess Blu-Ray has a nice future. Where did you guys get that HD-DVD has better quality?

Blu-Ray may have the performance in the pocket, but as far as accessibility, it's only a matter of time. You can look at the specs all you want. I'll even download em and make them into a poster you can hang on your wall. But if the average household can't afford the capabilities of Blu-Ray, especially initially, it won't make a damn difference. And if games are going to run me more than $50, than f"ck that altogether. Next gen or not, I'm not blowing $70-80 a game to get next gen graphics, I don't give a sh*t how life-like they are. With the exception of the Wii, the one thing that hasn't changed since beginning of video games is how they play. If it looks fantastic, but plays like crap, you just sh*tted yourself out of a whole lot of money when a slightly less performing machine probably would've awarded you with a better gaming experience. THAT is what matters at the end of the day....not the numbers.

I don't see how you figure the PS3 is going to "shit" on Microsoft. Maybe you forgot Microsoft has had one helluva lead and has most of their bugs and compatibility issues sorted. :rolleyes:

**Gonzo** · 09-10-2006, 07:24 PM

I gotcha there, Blaze.

To give the short short version...

HD-DVD is significantly easier and cheaper to produce. The technology required to produce HD-DVD's is less expensive and current DVD producers can actually upgrade to HD-DVD production without buying all new equipment. This means no major changes in production and distribution for HD-DVD's. In the end this also contributes to HD-DVD's lower cost.

In addition HD-DVD is backwards compatible with DVD by default. (Where as BluRay will would have to pay additional liscense fees) In addition it is possible to produce an HD-DVD disk that can actually be read by both HDDVD drives and older DVD drives. Such equipped disks can be purchased by consumers now, and when they upgrade to an HDDVD player they can see the media in HD. Also these discs can be brought with you to a friend's or beachouse or something that only has a DVD player, and you can still watch them. However development of BluRays compatible with DVD is ongoing and might be possible with only a single layer.
(Also, and this is a purely political point, but the name HD-DVD is more appealing to consumers since they already know DVD)

Another thing to realize is that while BluRays do theoretically have more potential for capacity, if you look at current production, the majority of HD-DVD's actually have more storage space than BluRays (Almost ALL HD-DVD's so far have been dual layer, while BluRays have almost all been single layer) and the financial plasuability of introducing dual layer BluRays in the near future is in question. Also, BluRays currently only support MPEG 2 which is an older format which takes up more space than the newer formats which are currently used in HDDVD, which helps negate BluRay's space advantage.

As far as interactive content on disks (menus for example) are based on existing standards that are easy to produce for and very widespread (thus cheaper to produce) Though admittedly, BluRays technically would have more expandable interactive content but the necessity of it is doubtful and also harder to program for.

Essentially when it comes down to it HD-DVD's are cheaper more easy to produce. Also currently HD-DVD production significantly outpaces BluRay. Also last time I checked HD-DVD has more major supporters.

Oh, and as far as quality, neither has an edge in video quality, only capacity. HD-DVD also supports 1080p, I don't know where you got the idea that it doesn't... The list of studio supporters is also incomplete and outdated.

The only area the BluRay currently has an advangtage in is sound. It can support higher quality sound for 6 channels, or the same quality sound as HDDVD over more channels. Though as of right now, even the big time studios can't master their sound to even take full advantage of HD-DVD's audio capabilities. So for a while now at least, it will be a mute point.

As of right now, I would consider HD-DVD the most likely to win out. Though as I said before, things can change fast early during format wars. Also if you will remember, the more capable format does not always win. Infact, if you look at previous format wars, the less capable is often the one that wins out due to other factors.

In regard to consoles, it has been shown that the Wii will actually have marginally more power than the last generation XBOX. (Not that it will nescisarily end up needing much power) The Wii also isn't even competing with the PS3 and 360. They are taking an entirely different route. The Wii is not even suited for any mainstream games (so previous exclusives like Rogue Squadron will be jumping ship) due to the console's design. The Wii has becoming a very singlular focused machine.

Fans and industry anaylists both worry not only that the PS3 will have launch problems but that production issues may persist for long after the console has been released. Currently Sony only has a single source for many of the console's components. This is bad for two primary reasons. First, if one source has a problem, they will end up affecting the entire console's production (best demonstrated by BluRay and Cell production issues) as well as the fact that with only one part manufacturer, there is no competition. MS can, in contrast, call upon several different providers to source parts from so if one has a problem another can pick up the slack and also they will compete amongst eachother so Microsoft can save (and thus make) more money. (They are quite good at that)

About Word. What an abomination. The entire MS Office suite is subpar, and don't even get me started on Windows. The XBOX has been one of the very few products from Microsoft that I have been satisfied with. (One more reason I would like to see Sony put pressure on Microsoft.)

Some people earlier mentioned the possibility of Apple making a console. While I don't doubt they could make a nice system if they really wanted to, I think they would get slaughtered unless there were some major changes in the market. Apple hasn't done well with consumer electronics in the past except for the very obvious exception, iPod. Trying to get 3rd parties to sign on with them would be damn near impossible. If Apple miraculously started to thrive in the PC market and or they made an operating system for none Apple computers that took off(a thought that makes me squirm just thinking about the potential), I don't seem them touching the console market.

BLU BY U · 09-11-2006, 01:04 AM

xbox can go screw itself, im waiting for ps3

BLAZETIGER · 09-11-2006, 01:27 AM

Good reply Gonzo. I guess we'll see. I really hope we don't have another Beta vs VHS thing going on.

BTW - where did you see that HD DVD can produce 1080p. Everything I've read and heard says only 720p. I guess its not much difference, but I'd really like to get the most out of my new tv. (Yes I bought a 1080p)

P.S. -I'm still rooting for Blu Ray.

skittleslegend · 09-11-2006, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLAZETIGER

Good reply Gonzo. I guess we'll see. I really hope we don't have another Beta vs VHS thing going on.

BTW - where did you see that HD DVD can produce 1080p. Everything I've read and heard says only 720p. I guess its not much difference, but I'd really like to get the most out of my new tv. (Yes I bought a 1080p)

P.S. -I'm still rooting for Blu Ray.

I'm rooting for Sony. Less for Blu-Ray. But whatever offers the best games at the most competitive price will work for me. Sony however, is the underdog on this one. They tout their machine as "a computer entertainment system, not just for video games." How well they pull that off remains to be seen. But God, I hope they don't catch viruses.

**Gonzo** · 09-11-2006, 02:03 AM

Haha, I wouldn't worry about viruses Skittles, maybe bugs... We'll see how well it lives up to its "computer entertainment system" mentality. I would think MS would have the advantage in that realm since they own windows, but then again maybe not. It's a sad day when my Mac has an easier time sharing music to my 360 than the three PC's in our appartment. Though I sure do wish I had Windows Media Center so I could stream movies.
Gotta love windows though. Just tonight I had to reformat. When I tried to register the copy of XP it said I had exceeded the maximum number of registration entries. (No, not because I had it on more than one machine, but because MS apparently thinks I am only allowed to reformat as many times as they see fit) After going through two customer service representatives I finally got one who I could understand and who could understand me. I think it is sorted out now. Thank god I own a mac so I can actually get things done...

As far as sources that confirm 1080p is supported on HDDVD, there are many, but to name one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080p

Again, I hope both suceed (well, all including Wii). Sure if the PS3 does well and gets some awesome games that 360 doesn't I'll be a little jealous, but hey, that's the way it goes. There are plenty of other things I can be more jealous of, like Si owners...

BLAZETIGER · 09-24-2006, 02:43 AM

Finally it looks like some good news on the Sony front

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/734/734349p1.html

It's for the Japanese release, but theres a good chance that it will also carry over to the U.S. releases. A reported $50 or more price drop plus the addition of an HDMI port on the 20 gig model. A price drop for the 60 gig model could also be in the works.

09-09-2006, 03:48 AM	#42 (permalink)
BATANG CITY JAIL Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Durham, NC..£╖╒◙o├æ Posts: 8,255 iTrader: 10 / 100%	x-box vs PS.... its like chevy vs honda...

09-09-2006, 04:26 PM	#44 (permalink)
JeShUa Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 12,590 add camber and stir iTrader: 12 / 100%	Yeah.. I agree with the blu ray vs hd dvd thought that... blu ray players are very expensive, and so are the discs.. and they have lower quality than hd dvd.. so I dont understand why they're even trying to go that route?? cheaper higher resolution? Hm.. hard concept.. I like what microsoft produces to say the least as I have a ps2 and am not entirely contempt with it althought I never play it so have no incentive to upgrade.

09-10-2006, 01:45 AM	#48 (permalink)
BLAZETIGER Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Victorville, So. Cal Age: 28 Posts: 664 iTrader: 15 / 100%	For the record I own all systems including the original Xbox and the Xbox 360. I guess I'm as close to a "Sony Fanboy" though since I've always liked them best. I'm not close minded though as I do have a few Microsoft favorites. (Still waiting for Gears of War and Halo 3. Just picked up Test Drive Unlimited and Madden 07).

09-10-2006, 03:23 PM	#51 (permalink)
Diablo99V Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kendall Posts: 179 iTrader: 0 / 0%	People call others Sony fanboy etc... I think they need a mirror. At the end of the day its not how you start but how you finish. Now can you run those numbers again for the PS2? You are welcome to run them again for the PS3 by the end of next year. Delays on launch do not affect the performance, that performance is the one that is going to shit on the Xbox. Even the underpowered Wii will come up to the battle with agression and in my believe offering a better package then Microsoft, only time will tell (you are welcome to visit this thread once is settled at the end). I think Microsoft makes great things like Word but they should of stayed in that department.

09-11-2006, 01:04 AM	#56 (permalink)
BLU BY U Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Age: 24 Posts: 7,585 iTrader: 2 / 100%	xbox can go screw itself, im waiting for ps3

09-11-2006, 01:27 AM	#57 (permalink)
BLAZETIGER Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Victorville, So. Cal Age: 28 Posts: 664 iTrader: 15 / 100%	Good reply Gonzo. I guess we'll see. I really hope we don't have another Beta vs VHS thing going on. BTW - where did you see that HD DVD can produce 1080p. Everything I've read and heard says only 720p. I guess its not much difference, but I'd really like to get the most out of my new tv. (Yes I bought a 1080p) P.S. -I'm still rooting for Blu Ray.

09-24-2006, 02:43 AM	#60 (permalink)
BLAZETIGER Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Victorville, So. Cal Age: 28 Posts: 664 iTrader: 15 / 100%	Finally it looks like some good news on the Sony front http://ps3.ign.com/articles/734/734349p1.html It's for the Japanese release, but theres a good chance that it will also carry over to the U.S. releases. A reported $50 or more price drop plus the addition of an HDMI port on the 20 gig model. A price drop for the 60 gig model could also be in the works.