K20Z3 Turbocharger Analysis Turbo Maps - Page 2

***sickyute*** · 05-28-2007, 03:04 PM

they hide too much ...
they'll never tell u some of what u want to know ...

hiders hiders hiders ....

good work though ...

...

DetachmentBravo · 05-28-2007, 03:07 PM

HAHA, I'm definitely getting that feeling sickyute. And thanks!

***sickyute*** · 05-28-2007, 03:12 PM

hey... trust me ...
on my last car (link in sig) ... they used it for their kit ...
got a whole lot from them, in terms of parts etc etc ... but when it came down to letting me see the work while it's being done done, or taking pics in the early stages or letting info. out ... they won't even let me/tell me ... lol ...

whatever i had let out was going against their wishes most of the time ...

...

so yeah ... u may just have to go it blind for a while ... the info will more than likely come out later ...

PS: u should PM most of this info to Hirev1 ... that way he can update his boosting faq. thread ...
now somebody needs to make a NA thread....

DetachmentBravo · 05-28-2007, 04:17 PM

Well, I'm not hear to pass judgment on any company or their policies.

This thread exists to provide 8thGenCivic users with as much information as possible so that they can good, informed decisions.

DetachmentBravo · 05-28-2007, 06:14 PM

UPDATE:Added the TD06HR-16G6 maps.

I am also in the process of giving the entire map section a visual overhaul to make it easier to find what your looking for. Right now its all strung out because I can't use table tags on these forums so formatting still needs a little work. Replaced the full sized maps with thumbnails obviously so that help clean things up.

DetachmentBravo · 05-29-2007, 02:46 PM

I have contacted both Precision Turbo & Engine and Greddy to see if they would be so kind as to provide us with flow data for the SC6169E and T517Z turbochargers.

As soon as I hear back I will let you all know, but I am not terribly optimistic. I have a funny feeling that I am not the first person to ask for this data and that I will not be the first person they say "no" to.

blue1 · 05-29-2007, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F.I.A.T

compressor maps are a good baseline to start with but altering the motors charateristics will affect your formula. not to mention if we still went solely by compressor maps instead of real world experience we would never be runnning anything larger than a T3 turbo and no where near the GT42R that we run now.

The maps for the Precision turbos are not going to be found. They do their own R&D outside of Garrett and now make some of their own wheels. so simply relying on the garrett mmaps would not be correct in any of your calculations. esspecially since they dont use standard garrett turbine wheels which alter spool and output of each turbo.

When did you guys install the GT42R? Sounds like you are planning to push more than the 680hp the GT35R can handle.

DetachmentBravo · 06-03-2007, 08:38 PM

UPDATE: Fixed an error in the K20Z3 base charts for sea level.

Many thanks to RedshiftChris for pointing this error out for me! On the sea level charts I had the pressure ratio lines labeled with the wrong psi values. I created the altitude charts first, and totally forgot to recompute the psi values for sea level. I have corrected the charts and re-posted them.

More compressor maps on the way as well.

***sickyute*** · 06-03-2007, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueroadster

When did you guys install the GT42R? Sounds like you are planning to push more than the 680hp the GT35R can handle.

aiming for 10s??

DetachmentBravo · 06-04-2007, 12:53 AM

UPDATE: To help those who are not familiar with compressor maps I have added a section describing their basic anatomy. Its probably full of typos and misinformation because I'm tired and have been studying for exams all weekend. Please notify me of any errors you spot.

P.S. Any chance this is stick worthy yet?

***sickyute*** · 06-04-2007, 01:13 AM

stuck ...
thought i had done that already

DetachmentBravo · 06-04-2007, 01:19 AM

WOHOO! Many thanks good sir!

EDIT: Aww, I can't give you rep for that. Must have to spread it around or summot.

blue1 · 06-04-2007, 12:54 PM

Really appreciate the detailed information provided in this post. It certainly helps me understand some of the comments received regarding my dyno run.

***bossman*** · 06-04-2007, 01:07 PM

wow....I am now thoroughly convinced to stay all motor

DetachmentBravo · 06-04-2007, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bossman

wow....I am now thoroughly convinced to stay all motor

HAHAHAHA!!! Turbo charger thermodynamics are child's play compared to the science that goes on every revolution of an engine. Static combustion ratios, thermal efficiency, flame prorogation, quench surface, discrete element analysis... there is so much to learn. I need to purchase some good books on the subject.

DetachmentBravo · 06-05-2007, 02:42 PM

UPDATE: Allrighty couple of big updates.

Had to make another correction to my psi values for sea level. Greg from Redshift was the first to point out that I had forgotten to recalculate the psi values for the various pressure ratios. The second time round I didn't look at my notes from when I first did the calculations so I just guessed and I was a little off on the equation. All corrected now though. The values only differed by ~ 1 psi.

Next big change is that I have uploaded my excel file for this project to a mirror and provided a link. It is currently being stored at FileDen (setting up that account was a PITA), all images are stored at PhotoBucket. FileDen allows a monthly bandwidth of 50GB which is more than enough for now.

I'm refraining from hosting anything on my home server for bandwidth, availability, and security reasons. Mostly security reasons though, I'm a bit of a network security freak and my home OpenBSD server actually runs VPNs for myself and friends.

Coming up:
I'm going to add a detailed how-to for using the excel file to generate your own maps.

I've got the process as simple as possible. It only uses Microsoft Excel and Paint. (Easy huh?) I want this to be something everyone can use regardless of skill or resources.

I'm a huge supporter of the FSF (Free Sofware Foundation) if you can't tell. Anyone who wants instructions for use with the OpenOffice.org suite I can provide those as well.

FA5SI · 06-05-2007, 03:45 PM

Nice Analysis!

DetachmentBravo · 06-05-2007, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FA5SI

Nice Analysis!

Many thanks.

I have finished the How-To, but it is rather lengthy and image heavy. Adding it to the current thread could make it too lengthy. I might make another thread of it though.

DetachmentBravo · 06-05-2007, 06:08 PM

UPDATE: I have posted the How-To and made some cosmetic changes to the first couple posts to make everything fit better.

I have also poster the maps for the GT3267 turbo which I used as the example for the How-To. I hope you all find this useful for your own analysis.

marc-o-lishuz · 06-05-2007, 06:33 PM

Definitely sticky material here. Good job with the analysis.

05-28-2007, 03:04 PM	#21 (permalink)
*sickyute* VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl Age: 29 Posts: 9,568 Marvie iTrader: 12 / 100%	they hide too much ... they'll never tell u some of what u want to know ... hiders hiders hiders .... good work though ... ... __________________ Shift when it blinks! http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2640940 FA5 http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2216565 FG2

05-28-2007, 03:12 PM	#23 (permalink)
*sickyute* VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl Age: 29 Posts: 9,568 Marvie iTrader: 12 / 100%	hey... trust me ... on my last car (link in sig) ... they used it for their kit ... got a whole lot from them, in terms of parts etc etc ... but when it came down to letting me see the work while it's being done done, or taking pics in the early stages or letting info. out ... they won't even let me/tell me ... lol ... whatever i had let out was going against their wishes most of the time ... ... so yeah ... u may just have to go it blind for a while ... the info will more than likely come out later ... PS: u should PM most of this info to Hirev1 ... that way he can update his boosting faq. thread ... now somebody needs to make a NA thread.... __________________ Shift when it blinks! http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2640940 FA5 http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2216565 FG2

06-04-2007, 01:13 AM	#31 (permalink)
*sickyute* VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl Age: 29 Posts: 9,568 Marvie iTrader: 12 / 100%	stuck ... thought i had done that already __________________ Shift when it blinks! http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2640940 FA5 http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2216565 FG2

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05-28-2007, 03:07 PM	#22 (permalink)
DetachmentBravo Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 275 William iTrader: 0 / 0%	HAHA, I'm definitely getting that feeling sickyute. And thanks!

05-28-2007, 04:17 PM	#24 (permalink)
DetachmentBravo Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 275 William iTrader: 0 / 0%	Well, I'm not hear to pass judgment on any company or their policies. This thread exists to provide 8thGenCivic users with as much information as possible so that they can good, informed decisions.

05-28-2007, 06:14 PM	#25 (permalink)
DetachmentBravo Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 275 William iTrader: 0 / 0%	UPDATE:Added the TD06HR-16G6 maps. I am also in the process of giving the entire map section a visual overhaul to make it easier to find what your looking for. Right now its all strung out because I can't use table tags on these forums so formatting still needs a little work. Replaced the full sized maps with thumbnails obviously so that help clean things up.

05-29-2007, 02:46 PM	#26 (permalink)
DetachmentBravo Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 275 William iTrader: 0 / 0%	I have contacted both Precision Turbo & Engine and Greddy to see if they would be so kind as to provide us with flow data for the SC6169E and T517Z turbochargers. As soon as I hear back I will let you all know, but I am not terribly optimistic. I have a funny feeling that I am not the first person to ask for this data and that I will not be the first person they say "no" to.

06-03-2007, 08:38 PM	#28 (permalink)
DetachmentBravo Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 275 William iTrader: 0 / 0%	UPDATE: Fixed an error in the K20Z3 base charts for sea level. Many thanks to RedshiftChris for pointing this error out for me! On the sea level charts I had the pressure ratio lines labeled with the wrong psi values. I created the altitude charts first, and totally forgot to recompute the psi values for sea level. I have corrected the charts and re-posted them. More compressor maps on the way as well.

06-04-2007, 12:53 AM	#30 (permalink)
DetachmentBravo Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 275 William iTrader: 0 / 0%	UPDATE: To help those who are not familiar with compressor maps I have added a section describing their basic anatomy. Its probably full of typos and misinformation because I'm tired and have been studying for exams all weekend. Please notify me of any errors you spot. P.S. Any chance this is stick worthy yet?

06-04-2007, 01:19 AM	#32 (permalink)
DetachmentBravo Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 275 William iTrader: 0 / 0%	WOHOO! Many thanks good sir! EDIT: Aww, I can't give you rep for that. Must have to spread it around or summot.

06-04-2007, 12:54 PM	#33 (permalink)
blue1 Senior Member Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 3,566 iTrader: 7 / 100%	Really appreciate the detailed information provided in this post. It certainly helps me understand some of the comments received regarding my dyno run.

06-04-2007, 01:07 PM	#34 (permalink)
*bossman* You will be missed TOBIE Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: :facepalming wussies: Posts: 21,737 PM whore. iTrader: 10 / 100%	wow....I am now thoroughly convinced to stay all motor

06-05-2007, 02:42 PM	#36 (permalink)
DetachmentBravo Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 275 William iTrader: 0 / 0%	UPDATE: Allrighty couple of big updates. Had to make another correction to my psi values for sea level. Greg from Redshift was the first to point out that I had forgotten to recalculate the psi values for the various pressure ratios. The second time round I didn't look at my notes from when I first did the calculations so I just guessed and I was a little off on the equation. All corrected now though. The values only differed by ~ 1 psi. Next big change is that I have uploaded my excel file for this project to a mirror and provided a link. It is currently being stored at FileDen (setting up that account was a PITA), all images are stored at PhotoBucket. FileDen allows a monthly bandwidth of 50GB which is more than enough for now. I'm refraining from hosting anything on my home server for bandwidth, availability, and security reasons. Mostly security reasons though, I'm a bit of a network security freak and my home OpenBSD server actually runs VPNs for myself and friends. Coming up: I'm going to add a detailed how-to for using the excel file to generate your own maps. I've got the process as simple as possible. It only uses Microsoft Excel and Paint. (Easy huh?) I want this to be something everyone can use regardless of skill or resources. I'm a huge supporter of the FSF (Free Sofware Foundation) if you can't tell. Anyone who wants instructions for use with the OpenOffice.org suite I can provide those as well.

06-05-2007, 03:45 PM	#37 (permalink)
FA5SI Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: San Diego Age: 22 Posts: 1,356 iTrader: 34 / 100%	Nice Analysis!

06-05-2007, 06:08 PM	#39 (permalink)
DetachmentBravo Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 275 William iTrader: 0 / 0%	UPDATE: I have posted the How-To and made some cosmetic changes to the first couple posts to make everything fit better. I have also poster the maps for the GT3267 turbo which I used as the example for the How-To. I hope you all find this useful for your own analysis.

06-05-2007, 06:33 PM	#40 (permalink)
marc-o-lishuz Doraemon! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 28,230 Marc iTrader: 3 / 100%	Definitely sticky material here. Good job with the analysis.