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02-26-2009, 11:08 PM
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#22 (permalink) | |
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Ride Of The Month
 
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Anytime, just keep learning!!
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03-11-2009, 11:10 PM
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#24 (permalink) | ||
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Ride Of The Month
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Quote:
Greddy and AJP (although some people say it's only reliable if you get it installed and tuned by them) Unless you know a shop/tuner that knows what they are doing, I wouldn't suggest going the custom route and building a kit. 07CivicMD went that route but he was fully supported by Swift Racing with kits that are proven to work on a variety of cars and they have a lot of research done on the topic, and they did it right. They built the engine, they installed it and tuned it themselves, and well, as you can see, that car is a beast and is running very well. Now, with the Greddy Kit you can reach 300hp but you need one amazing tuner and a bunch of mods (3"DP, 3"Exhaust, bigger injectors, upgraded fuel pump) If you're within a decent distance from AJP, I would suggest going with them if you're looking to get more than 300hp. But if you want something that is reliable, then get the Greddy Kit
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03-19-2009, 01:33 PM
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#27 (permalink) | ||
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Ride Of The Month
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Quote:
 I've had my turbo on the car for about 4000 miles or so, taken a few long road trips and haven't had a problem yet. If you take care of it, you will not run into too many problems, and definitely won't blow it up.
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07-12-2009, 10:58 AM
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#33 (permalink) | |
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Senior Member
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07-12-2009, 12:41 PM
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#34 (permalink) |
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Senior Member
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Well.. since my stuff never gets sticky!! And this has some great information I will add my stuff to this thread.
What is a fuel systems job? A fuel systems job is mainly to maintain a proper fuel demand throughout the system that will eventually be sprayed from the fuel injectors into the intake stream and into the combustion chamber. What does a Fuel System Consist Of? This depends on if it is a return or return-less fuel system. If it is a return fuel system, it has a fuel tank, fuel pump, sending fuel lines (from the pump to the fuel rail), a fuel rail, fuel injectors, fuel pressure regulator and returning fuel lines to the fuel tank. If it is a return-less fuel system, it has the same items but no fuel pressure regulator and return fuel lines. How does a return fuel system work? A return fuel system first starts out in the fuel tank. Everyone knows you go to the gas pump and put fuel into your gas tank, so that’s where it originates. Typically, the fuel pump is located inside the fuel tank. The fuel pump sends the fuel from inside the fuel tank through the fuel lines (sending lines). This fuel being sent is sending a high pressure to the fuel rail. As it enters the rail, fuel tries to either be sent back to the fuel tank or into the fuel injectors themselves. What keeps all the fuel from going back to the fuel tank? The fuel pressure regulator. The fuel pressure regulator will determine the amount of fuel being returned or staying inside the fuel rail. Also, by restricting the fuel line, it’s increasing the pressure inside the rail which effects the amount of pressure inside the fuel injectors and how much fuel is being sprayed out during the injectors cycle. After this, fuel that is not being used is now sent back to the fuel tank via fuel return lines (which were attached to the fuel pressure regulator). Fuel returns to the fuel tank and the cycle of fuel starts all over. How does a return-less fuel system work? Very similarly to a return fuel system except fuel is not sent back to the fuel tank if it’s not being used, hence, it doesn’t have an fuel pressure regulator to “regulate” fuel being sent back to the fuel tank. There are a couple of ways that fuel is maintained. On a return fuel system, fuel being sent from the fuel pump is sent at a constant rate, on some fuel systems, the fuel pump fluctuates depending on the voltage sent to the fuel pump from the computer. The computer decides when more fuel should be sent and it also determines when there should be less fuel sent. Other return-less fuel systems have a valve inside the fuel pump itself that can change the flow rate of the fuel pump. What is every items job specifically? 1. Fuel Tank – To store fuel a certain capacity of fuel (gasoline) 2. Fuel Pump – To send the fuel towards the fuel rail via fuel lines (sending lines) 3. Sending Fuel Lines – To carry the fuel that was sent from the fuel pump to the fuel rail 4. Fuel Rail – Fuel rail is the central area where fuel comes to from the fuel sending fuel lines. The fuel that ends up here either gets pressurized into the fuel injectors or (on a return fuel system) gets sent back to the fuel tank. 5. Fuel Injectors – Fuel injectors job is to open and close at certain times on a 4 stroke engine (during the intake stroke). As it opens, it sprays fuel into the air intake stream which will get carried into the combustion chamber. Throughout the rest of the strokes, it remains closed. 6. Fuel Pressure Regulator – It is a device that is on the end of your fuel rail. On most units, there is a vacuum reference line that is connected to the intake manifold. As vacuum pressure drops (nearing towards atmospheric pressure), a spring inside the fuel pressure regulator tightens against a diaphragm which will start to restrict fuel from returning to the fuel tank. As it restricts fuel, it is also raising the pressure inside the fuel rail. Fuel pressure rises and drops according to the vehicles condition, whether it would be idle, cruising or wide open throttle. This item is only found on return fuel systems, NOT return-less fuel systems. 7. Fuel Return Lines – Carries fuel back to the fuel tank which the cycle of fuel starts over again. Once again, this item is only found on return fuel systems, NOT return-less fuel systems. When should I change my fuel injectors? You only change your fuel injectors when they are starting to exceed a certain duty cycle. The industry standard is 80% - 85% duty cycle maximum that a fuel injector should flow. Anything higher, you run the risk of overheating from the kinetic energy that they produce which will cause them to not open/close efficiently or just plain failure. What is duty cycle? Duty cycle is referring to the time that an fuel injector is open divided by the time that it can possibly be open during two complete engine revolutions. Ok, I want to build up my car but I’m not sure what size fuel injectors to get. How do I find out what size I need? This is a very common question asked. First, understand the point of changing your injectors is to maintain a certain demand of fuel to your engine from your fuel system as efficiently and reliably as possible. When shopping for fuel injectors, understand that fuel injectors are also rated by fuel pressure. Fuel is being sent as high amounts of pressure which are typically measured by PSI. Lets use for example, you find fuel injectors that are 42 lbs/hr rated at 40 PSI of fuel pressure. Your car might run it’s highest at 50 PSI of fuel pressure. If you were to put these 42 lbs/hr injectors are going to be spraying more lbs/hr than the original rating just because of the increase in fuel pressure on your vehicle compared to their original rating. This might or might not what you would be aiming for depending on what you’re using to control the injectors throughout idle, cruising speeds and wide open throttle but this is what you would have to shop for. NOTE: Industry standard for fuel injector rating is about 45 PSI of fuel pressure (3 BAR of fuel pressure) Now, what size do you need? There is a very good calculation that you can use to give yourself a good accurate answer: Flow Rate = (Horsepower x BSFC) / (# of Injectors x Max Duty Cycle) Ok, you’re probably thinking “what the hell is BSFC?”. BSFC stands for brake-specific fuel consumption which are rated in pounds per hour. The average for naturally aspirated engines is about 0.45 and for turbocharged engines about 0.55 at full throttle (It could normally be anywhere from 0.4 to 0.6). Like said, these are estimations but it will give you a good idea. Lets use an example: Say you have a Honda Civic 2.0 and you’re looking to turbo-charge it but you want to know the proper size injectors to get. Your goal is 300 Horsepower (flywheel horsepower). It’s a 4 cylinder engine, so it has 4 injectors and the max duty cycle I’m looking to ever go to is 80%. So lets do the math… Flow Rate = (300 HP x 0.55) / (4 x .80) Flow Rate = (165) / (3.2) Flow Rate = 51.5625 So I just figured out that if I wanted an estimate of 300 flywheel horsepower and don’t want to exceed 80% duty cycle, I would need fuel injectors that are about 51.5 lbs/hr and this is also understanding 51.5 lbs/hr at whatever given rating of the fuel pressure. What is the difference between low and high impedance injectors? The amount of voltage an injector needs to open. High impedance basically means it needs a higher amount of voltage sent to the injector to have it open fully and properly. Lower impedance injectors are just vice versa. High impedance injectors as far as voltage go need anywhere up to 12 Ohms, low impedance are around 3-5 ohms but of course, this depends on the vehicle and engine management system. Do I need to upgrade my fuel system if I run a nitrous kit? (wet or dry kits) Not to get too off topic but a brief description of how each kit works and why you would or wouldn’t need to upgrade with either one. I am assuming that you already know how nitrous affects an engine as well: A wet nitrous kit basically means that as nitrous is being injected into your air intake stream it is also spraying fuel to keep a well balanced air fuel ratio inside your combustion chamber. Depending on how this kit is installed and the vehicle you’re using, you can either tap into the fuel line or the fuel rail for a source of fuel. Do you need to upgrade your fuel system on a wet kit? Depends. Your fuel injectors, no you don’t need to upgrade them because the fuel that you are supplying along with the nitrous is coming from an outside source and not being sprayed through your fuel injectors. Your fuel pump, maybe. Depending on the stress that is made on the fuel pump to keep a certain demand of fuel (GPH), it might need to be to keep from starving the fuel injectors as well as keeping your “wet line” supplied with enough fuel. Do you need to upgrade your fuel system on a dry kit? Yes (or at least I suggest it). With a dry kit, you’re just spraying nitrous alone and now you’re taking the fuel management side into your own hands by relying on your fuel system for fuel supply during nitrous injection. Same rules apply as far as overworking your injectors or fuel pump. It’s all about maintaining a proper fuel supply and demand. When things are off balanced and over looked, bad things will start to happen which typically results in lean air/fuel mixtures if it’s not adequate enough during a dry shot injection. Some cars have return-less fuel systems and some have return fuel systems. Why is it like this? What’s better for performance? Return-less fuel systems were created, for one, help the computer control more of the amount of fuel being sent to the fuel rail and to also reduce on the likeliness of fuel leaks by reducing the amount of lines used. What’s better for performance? Return fuel systems are. They are better for performance in the aspect that all fuel that is entering the rail is entering the fuel injectors at an about equal rate and they are getting an about equal amount of fuel. What typically happens with return-less fuel systems is that as fuel is coming in from one side of the fuel rail, it might be starving the farther injector(s), so they aren’t getting sufficient amount of fuel into the injector(s), hence, not supplying the proper amount of fuel into the combustion chamber which could result in lean mixtures that cause detonation & possible engine damage. Now, this is of course speaking from a high performance point of view and not necessarily in a stock or near stock situation. What are rising-rate fuel pressure regulators? Rising rate fuel pressure regulators basically do the same job as your stock (OEM) fuel pressure regulator. Your stock fuel pressure regulator raises fuel pressure as vacuum pressure drops. It has a line that connects from the fuel pressure regulator to the intake manifold to read the air pressure inside the manifold, which helps determine the desirable fuel pressure inside the fuel rail. On an OEM unit for a naturally aspirated engine, if you were to turbo-charge the engine, as you’re increasing above atmospheric pressure (boost pressure), it will rail fuel pressure inside the fuel rail on a 1:1 ratio (for every pound of boost, it will raise the fuel pressure 1 PSI inside the fuel rail). On an rising rate fuel pressure regulator, depending on the unit, it will raise the fuel pressure higher than the OEM 1:1. It can be anywhere from 6:1 to 12:1 ratio of fuel pressure to boost pressure. Increasing fuel pressure will also increase the amount of fuel going through the fuel injector every time it opens but also understand that too much fuel pressure on an underrated fuel injector can cause that fuel injector to not operate properly from internal damage. Another thing to look out for is your fuel pump (which will be explained) as it is also rated to send a certain amount of fuel to your fuel rail. As you’re increasing pressure by restricting the amount of fuel returning to the fuel pump, you’re also slowing down the amount & speed of the fuel to travel from the pump to the fuel rail. Basically, as you’re increasing pressure, you’re also decreasing the rating on the fuel pump. I want to get a new High Flowing Fuel Pump, which one should I get? Once again, changing the fuel pump is to keep up with the demand of the rest of the fuel system. Your fuel pump is rated typically either by lbs per hour or gallons per hour. As you shop for a fuel pump, you will run into different descriptions of the fuel pump, which will refer to: Capacity (lbs/hr or gph), Voltage & Fuel Pressure (PSI). The fuel pressure part is referring to the amount of fuel pressure that in the fuel system that your fuel pump has to constantly supply towards. The equation to figure out what fuel pump you would need is as follows: Flow Rate = Horsepower x BSFC Flow Rate = X lbs/hr So lets use an example: Say you have your, once again, Honda Civic 2.0. Your goal is 300 Flywheel Horsepower with a turbo-charger, you’re assuming 0.55 BSFC, and your constant fuel pressure is 50 PSI. Flow Rate = 300 x 0.55 Flow Rate = 165 lbs/hr Now, if your fuel pump you’re shopping for is rated in gallons per hour (GPH), then you take that number and divide it by 6. Your answer is 27.5 GPH. What happens if I don’t provide enough fuel for my engine? Your engine is basically meterd by a certain amount of air to fuel. You basically need air in order to burn fuel. If there isn’t enough fuel being supplied, this can cause it to run into what is called a lean condition. Lean conditions can cause improper combustions to knocking (detonation) and quite possibly engine damage depending on how bad the condition is. Can I use fuel injectors from another car? Yes. The most common fuel injector is the Bosch pintle type injector, if you’re able to find larger injectors that are the same style as your vehicles, you should be able to use those injectors. If I wanted brand new injectors, what manufacturers can I buy from? Bosch, Accel, RC Engineering for starters. If I wanted to buy a new fuel pump, what manufacturers can I buy from? MSD & Walbro are bigger name companies. You can check them out and see if they have a fuel pump that is rated for your application’s fuel system needs. How do I convert flow rates? What’s the calculation? To convert from CC/Min to Lbs/Hr CC/MM = lbs/hr x 9.71 To convert from lbs/hr to cc/min Lbs/hr = cc/min x .103 Gallons Per Minute = (lbs/hr) / 369.8 This illustration should give you the basis of a fuel return system. A typical vapor return schematic diagram is shown below:  Note that the fuel return must go to the top of the tank above the surface of the fuel. If the return is positioned below the surface of the fuel, then the return line must include a one way check valve preventing unfiltered fuel from entering the TBI.        Thanks to PanamaSi2007 for the PICS! Last edited by 07CivicMD; 07-12-2009 at 12:44 PM. |
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07-12-2009, 12:42 PM
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#35 (permalink) |
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Senior Member
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What are the main differences between Superchargers and Turbochargers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There is almost no question that we get more than, “what are the main differences between Superchargers and Turbochargers, and which one do we recommend for each application. They both have obvious similarities, like the fact that both are air compressors, but what are the main differences between the two. Very simply put, one of the biggest differences between a turbocharger and a supercharger is in what provides it with its power. There has to be a power source to run the air compressor. A supercharger has a belt that connects directly to the engine while a turbocharger receives its power from the exhaust stream. But, more about that later, first lets talk about more of what both do. Both superchargers and turbochargers are forced induction systems and use compressors to increase the amount of air forced into the engine. One of the simplest ways to increase the horsepower of an engine is to increase the amount of air and fuel that it can burn. Normal engines will experience reduced power at high altitudes because for each stroke of the piston, the engine will receive a smaller amount of air. Both superchargers and turbochargers allow an engine to burn more air and fuel. By compressing more air into the cylinders this allows more fuel to be added. This creates more power from each explosion in the cylinder, in turn leading to more horsepower. The typical boost produced by these units is 6 to 10 pounds per square inch (psi). Normal atmospheric pressure is 14.7 psi at sea level, so you are getting about 40 to 50 percent more air into the engine. From this, you can expect around a 40 to 50 percent increase in horsepower. The turbocharger is bolted to the exhaust manifold of the engine. The exhaust from the cylinders spins the turbine, which in turn spins a compressor forcing air into the cylinders. The turbine is connected to the compressor by a shaft. The compressor pressurizes the air going into the cylinders. The exhaust from the cylinders passes through the turbine blades, causing the turbine to spin. The more exhaust that goes through the blades, the faster they spin. On the opposite end of the shaft that the turbine is attached to, a compressor pumps air into the cylinders. The compressor is a type of centrifugal pump in which it draws air in at the center of its blades and forces it outward as it spins. In theory, a turbocharger is more efficient because it is using the "wasted" energy in the exhaust stream for its power supply. This means more overall power from the same amount of boost. Another advantage to turbochargers is the incredible number of units available. This means the size of the turbo can be easily matched to the demands of the engine. This can allow instant boost, and peak levels over thirty pounds of boost. On the other hand, a turbocharger causes some amount of backpressure in the exhaust system and tends to not create immediate boost when you accelerate. It takes a second or two for the turbine to spool up before boost is produced. This results in a feeling of lag when you accelerate, and then the car lunges ahead when the turbo spools up. This surge cannot only be damaging to the engine, but it can create loss of traction and a loss of drivability. A supercharger is connected directly to the crank pulley, so you are able to produce boost without the lag time. The root and screw type superchargers are able to create boost at an even lower rpm range. The supercharger does not create backpressure because it has no interference with the exhaust system. The supercharger is bolted directly to the intake manifold or on the side of the engine by the means of a bracket. The supercharger drive pulley is attached to the internal impeller by a shaft. The drive pulley is attached to the engines crank pulley via a belt. As you increase the rpm’s of the motor, the supercharger’s internal impeller spins faster. This allows the supercharger to compress air inside of its casing before it forces it into the engines air intake. The speed at which the impeller spins, determines how much boost can be produced. Changing the drive pulley is a simple way to increase or decrease your boost. Superchargers are far easier to install and maintain than a turbo because they have fewer parts. A turbo requires far more engine modifications and have a greater number of parts than a supercharger making them far more difficult to install and tune. One can determine that both turbochargers and superchargers are a simple way to create large amounts of horsepower through a single part. Superchargers on average tend to better suited for the average driver, however turbochargers will always remain a favorite for those guys that desire insane amounts of boost. Cost is relative between a supercharger and turbo chargers. Both versions have their kits that range from $3000-6000 dollars depending on Brand name and WHP output. Have to make the determination to which will fit your need. Tuning has been the issue in the past and present but the future looks better. Hondata, AEM and Haltech are bringing newer technology in the coming months that will give broader range of tuning. Hope this helps. Do a search and you can compare cost between S/C and Turbo kits on the market and relative information on total cost that can be excepted in the long haul. When boosting or N/A just remember things will break so remember to have extra $$$ around for repairs. Last edited by 07CivicMD; 07-12-2009 at 12:44 PM. |
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07-12-2009, 12:58 PM
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#36 (permalink) | |
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Ride Of The Month
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Thanks for adding all that information Roger, I will update the first post
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07-12-2009, 07:45 PM
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#37 (permalink) | |
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Ride Of The Month
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Updated the first post with Roger's contribution, thanks!
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09-07-2009, 05:01 PM
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#40 (permalink) |
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Senior Member
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Here's the Supa Ninja Fuel Return
 edit 15nov09: it took me 25 ft of fuel line and the 180 fitting is the wrong one. Overall it wasn't that difficult. in a couple of months i'll be doing this. I won't be using the AEM rail though, the innovative one will do the same for a third the price. EDIT 24Sep09: I just ordered everything for the fuel return from Summit and clubRSX. There are a couple of error's on the above parts list. 180deg -6an hose-end is actually pn EAR-818006. and if you get the -6an hose kit you won't need another 90deg hose-end and you will only need to order two straight -6an hose-ends, since the kit comes with one 90deg and two straights. I'm going to do a detailed DIY when I install it and type up a parts list of everything I used. I purposely am using only 2 vendors for all the parts so that it will be as simple as possible incase someone else is going to do a return system, and those were the 2 with the best prices that I could find as well. Last edited by Supa Ninja; 11-16-2009 at 01:55 AM. |
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