5 reasons to ditch the Mac and return to PCs

[spook4thecia]

Originally Posted by Izzy

Is the Air really as portable as it sounds? I mean, not having any optical drives and such...wouldn't you have to port those around with you should you maybe find a need for it? Seems like working backwards to me...

Argh...

Not that I'm one to defend the MBA to the death, but here is something I posted on another forum while discussing Steve's keynote (and warding off the Mac haters I might add):

"True true but again I think with movies becoming digital, music becoming digital, and wireless backup, the only things left that you really need is installation disc's which is handled by the slave software... but I can see when your off on the road and you need an op drive in a pinch it could be a PITA."

Apple's concept is that your music comes from iTunes, your movies from iTunes/Apple TV, wireless back up from time machine or a USB drive...

Now for many people this isn't the case they still watch DVD's in their laptop's, they still want an optical drive....but there IS a market for this device. Even at it's price...which yes, I agree, is pretty damn high..there is still a market for it. There may be other comps out there with better specs, but it isn't the same design-which some people find absolutely beautiful, and they aren't running OSX -which some people LOVE. And brand mark-ups are suddenly a problem now? Abercrombie and Fitch jeans are $90. Wrangler jeans are $10. Bet the wranglers are more functional/last longer. Doesn't stop people from buying A&F.

[firmhonda]

Originally Posted by spook4thecia

Argh...

Not that I'm one to defend the MBA to the death, but here is something I posted on another forum while discussing Steve's keynote (and warding off the Mac haters I might add):

"True true but again I think with movies becoming digital, music becoming digital, and wireless backup, the only things left that you really need is installation disc's which is handled by the slave software... but I can see when your off on the road and you need an op drive in a pinch it could be a PITA."

Apple's concept is that your music comes from iTunes, your movies from iTunes/Apple TV, wireless back up from time machine or a USB drive...

Now for many people this isn't the case they still watch DVD's in their laptop's, they still want an optical drive....but there IS a market for this device. Even at it's price...which yes, I agree, is pretty damn high..there is still a market for it. There may be other comps out there with better specs, but it isn't the same design-which some people find absolutely beautiful, and they aren't running OSX -which some people LOVE. And brand mark-ups are suddenly a problem now? Abercrombie and Fitch jeans are $90. Wrangler jeans are $10. Bet the wranglers are more functional/last longer. Doesn't stop people from buying A&F.

I can make a Chevy Celebrity with 2 plastic sheeting doors, an exhaust, and an awesome paint job sound like a fantastic car too.

I don't mean that to be rude in any way, but I'm more anti Steve Jobs than I am anything else apple. In my opinion he's a crook.. not only for tax fraud (a ceo that makes $1 a year), but for ripping off thousands of people every year for putting a computer of equal quality to its competition in a pretty package and charging 3X what it's worth. To me the macbook air is a scam.. It's a way that they can charge an astronomical amount of money for a laptop that isn't worth it and then charge you for anything that you would ever need to make it a competitor against the laptops that cost 1/3 of the price. That's one of my main things against the iPhone too.. They charge a ridiculous amount of money for a phone, don't care about the customers once they are bought (the safari major security issue that has been known since within a week of the iphones release and still hasn't been fixed), and then actually set it up so that even though they overcharge you for a phone, they still will make money off of you in the future off of that same purchase.

I can tell you right now, if Apple stopped taking advantage of its customers by running up the price for everything that they can dream up and if Steve Jobs was fired (again) tomorrow, I'd be a huge apple fan. Until then they are nothing better, in my eyes, than your common scammer that sells you a car that's rigged to break down in a week and then say "We'll fix it for half price!"

As for the markup statement, I can't stand the fact that people put up with it. Just because people are silly enough to pay $80 for a pair of jeans doesn't mean that it's okay to do that.. It just means that people buy in to the dumbest trends and overpay for products that aren't worth the money. The only thing that I pay too much money for are my shoes, and that's because I love skater shoes.. They're expensive but they last longer than your typical adidas shoes and are MUCH more comfortable.

On a different note, one thing that drives me crazy is the elitest attitude that mac fans have. They act as if everyone that owns a pc and enjoys it is the so below them.. Even though that pc might have cost a fraction of the price and outperform the the mac in most ways. Like a post earlier in this thread says, "I guess it just makes too much sense." That statement alone drips of an elitest attitude that just can't be backed up with facts.

Put a dozen of roses in a plastic wrapper and put a dozen roses in a glass vase.. The glass vase will cost much more, but when you really look at it they're the same damn thing.. A dozen roses. A Mac is a PC with a prettier case and a modified free operating system.. that's it. We all like what we like and there's no problem with that, but acting as if you're elite for some reason because you made one choice and I made another doesn't make sense. I'm not trying to convert anyone over to a Windows pc, if you don't like it you don't like it.. But don't act as if your (not directed specifically at anyone) pc is so much better than mine simply because you happen to like your operating system better.

[shadedream]

Originally Posted by firmhonda

I don't mean that to be rude in any way, but I'm more anti Steve Jobs than I am anything else apple. In my opinion he's a crook.. not only for tax fraud (a ceo that makes $1 a year)...

First off, you do realize that its more than likely not tax fraud and rather him showing his dedication to the company (and the fact that they supply him with a company personal jet). He's also used to be CEO of another company, you may have heard of, called Pixar which probably supplies his financial needs

And before I continue... Im seriously all for people using what they like and prefer, I'd never try to force any OS or computer on someone because I think it's better but there is a TON of misinformation, and ignorant Mac hating going on around here.

Originally Posted by firmhonda

...but for ripping off thousands of people every year for putting a computer of equal quality to its competition in a pretty package and charging 3X what it's worth. To me the macbook air is a scam.. It's a way that they can charge an astronomical amount of money for a laptop that isn't worth it and then charge you for anything that you would ever need to make it a competitor against the laptops that cost 1/3 of the price.

1) Dell Latitude D430 Laptop Product Details cheaper, but not offered in the higher end 1.6ghz ULV chipset in the Air.

2) Lenovo - Notebook computers - ThinkPad X300 - baseprice includes the SSD optional on the Air, and still not the higher end 1.6ghz ULV chipset

3) VAIO® TZ Series - still using the slower 1.2ghz and 1.33ghz processors, though also using a smaller screen.

you could argue 4) VAIO® SZ Series being a competitor but it's more in line (except price) with the Macbook (not Air) as its heavier and not using a ULV processor.

Not to mention at least one of those systems was priced including XP, not Vista. There IS a market for these machines. Most likely not most of the people on these forums. I wouldn't buy one as a personal machine. I'd actually love one at my job though (I'm a field tech for a school district, would work well to have an ultra mobile system like the Air to tote around instead of my Macbook Pro). I wouldn't even bother trying to do any major design work, video work, or try to play video games on it. It's not made for that.

The ONLY way there's generally a significant price difference is when you're comparing the Macs to self-build, bargain brands, or stripped down features (sure you may not use them, but they're still included and its not a proper comparison if you're not using feature parity). If people are going to hate Macs so much, thats fine, just hate them. Don't invent reasons to justify your dislike.

[firmhonda]

Originally Posted by shadedream

First off, you do realize that its more than likely not tax fraud and rather him showing his dedication to the company (and the fact that they supply him with a company personal jet). He's also used to be CEO of another company, you may have heard of, called Pixar which probably supplies his financial needs

Steve Jobs also used to be the CEO of another company, you may have heard of, called NeXT.. Which went under because he insisted on wildly overpricing products that weren't worth the money.

There's nothing that anyone can say that can convince me that it's not some form of tax fraud to be listed as a CEO of a company that makes millions every year for $1/year. The fact that he has the company giving him his true salary as gifts so he doesn't have to pay a fraction of the taxes on it as he would if he were to just have himself on the payroll for the true amount.. Sounds like tax fraud to me. I understand that he's a very wealthy man due to other companies that he has owned in the past, but the fact of the matter is he makes at least 80% of his money through apple, but if you were to look at apple's payroll you would see him on at $1 a year.

Originally Posted by shadedream

And before I continue... Im seriously all for people using what they like and prefer, I'd never try to force any OS or computer on someone because I think it's better but there is a TON of misinformation, and ignorant Mac hating going on around here.

As am I. I really wish that people would keep an open mind about the possibilities and really try everything out there before jumping to one side. I've used Macs quite a bit, namely the dual processor g4 (arguably the last true mac for graphics), and I simply didn't like it. As I said earlier though, it's not the product itself that I have a problem with, it's the amount of money being charged for it and the elitist attitude that mac owners have... Well, that and the root of the apple company.. Just like I don't have a problem with people being Scientologists, but it's the backbone of the religion that I don't like (charging people thousands of dollars for something that should, at best, be free).

Originally Posted by shadedream

5 laptop comparisons

Well, I'm just going to compare 2 laptops.. And it will be the D530 (the laptop that I'm on right now) and the macbook air w/1.6ghz.

Price
Dell Latitude D530 - $649 (if ordered from Dell)
Macbook Air - $1799 (if ordered from Apple)

Processor
Dell Latitude D530 - Intel Duo Core ~ 2.0 ghz
Macbook Air - Intel Duo Core ~ 1.6 ghz

RAM
Dell Latitude D530 - 2 gigs
Macbook Air - 2 gigs

HDD
Dell Latitude D530 - 120 gig ~ 5400 rpm
Macbook Air - 80 gig ~ 4200 rpm

Optical Drive
Dell Latitude D530 - 8x DVD RW
Macbook Air - n/a

Screen
Dell Latitude D530 - 15 inch
Macbook Air - 13 inch
________ ________ ________ ________ ________ ________ ________

So the Latitude d530 has a bigger/faster HD, faster processor, bigger screen, actually has an optical drive, and costs less than half of what the macbook air costs. The only advantage at all that the MacBook Air has is that it's lighter, which for some people, but not for most. Even you, as an IT professional, should notice that it may not be the best considering you have no ethernet/rj11 jacks, which means that unless you have a wireless network set up at the office you can't access files or monitor activity on the network.. Well, unless you wanted to carry around a jack or you had bluetooth setup on one of the workstations.

Originally Posted by shadedream

The ONLY way there's generally a significant price difference is when you're comparing the Macs to self-build, bargain brands, or stripped down features (sure you may not use them, but they're still included and its not a proper comparison if you're not using feature parity). If people are going to hate Macs so much, thats fine, just hate them. Don't invent reasons to justify your dislike.

As I said before, I don't hate mac products... with the exception of the iPhone and the MBA, which I think I have shown why I dislike the MBA. The only people that the MBA is actually good for straight out of the box are college students that could use something small and lightweight to lug around the campus. The problem here is the fact that not all college students are spoiled rotten and can get mom and dad to fork over $1800 for a laptop with a single phone call. Matter of fact, most of the college students that I know (I am a college student myself) are barely making ends meet as it is, much less able to drop $1800 on any laptop, much less one that has less features than laptops that cost less than half as much.

I'm not inventing any reasons for not liking the MBA or the iPhone. Trust me, I don't just look at something ignorantly and make a decision on the spot. This is after doing a bit of research on the products and comparing them to other products around the same price.. which there isn't a single product on the market with so few features for $1800 that I have found yet. That, to me, is a complete rip-off and is proof that Apple is going out of there way to exploit its loyal customers for every dime that they can.

BTW, I sincerely apologize if this seems as if it's a personal attack against you. I assure you that it's not that in any way. I just think that it would be better for people to see in the future if they're considering a Macbook Air that they see a comparison to one single laptop instead of seeing a list of laptops that have one single thing that isn't as good as the MBA.

[Izzy]

Originally Posted by spook4thecia

Argh...

Not that I'm one to defend the MBA to the death, but here is something I posted on another forum while discussing Steve's keynote (and warding off the Mac haters I might add):

"True true but again I think with movies becoming digital, music becoming digital, and wireless backup, the only things left that you really need is installation disc's which is handled by the slave software... but I can see when your off on the road and you need an op drive in a pinch it could be a PITA."

Apple's concept is that your music comes from iTunes, your movies from iTunes/Apple TV, wireless back up from time machine or a USB drive...

Now for many people this isn't the case they still watch DVD's in their laptop's, they still want an optical drive....but there IS a market for this device. Even at it's price...which yes, I agree, is pretty damn high..there is still a market for it. There may be other comps out there with better specs, but it isn't the same design-which some people find absolutely beautiful, and they aren't running OSX -which some people LOVE. And brand mark-ups are suddenly a problem now? Abercrombie and Fitch jeans are $90. Wrangler jeans are $10. Bet the wranglers are more functional/last longer. Doesn't stop people from buying A&F.

I never looked at it that way. However, I rather find it moot to have a laptop for ONE purpose as the Air. I'd rather have that optical drive, just in case, and such. My m1330 is only a few hundred more than the Air, and it blows it away in terms of specifications. I can also put OSX on it, had I really wanted to.

I'll admit to not liking Apple simply because of the stereotype of the Apple user (which I have met quite a few) is typically true. That, as well as the pricing. I mean, I'm all for buying slightly upmarket, considering I bought into the XPS series of laptops...but I simply do not see why the Air would be that much.

I guess we're just at two sides of a two-way window. ...No pun intended.

[shadedream]

Originally Posted by firmhonda

Steve Jobs also used to be the CEO of another company, you may have heard of, called NeXT.. Which went under because he insisted on wildly overpricing products that weren't worth the money.

As am I. I really wish that people would keep an open mind about the possibilities and really try everything out there before jumping to one side. I've used Macs quite a bit, namely the dual processor g4 (arguably the last true mac for graphics), and I simply didn't like it. As I said earlier though, it's not the product itself that I have a problem with, it's the amount of money being charged for it and the elitist attitude that mac owners have...

Touche! LOL I used to have a NeXT cube. Those were some expensive but awesome machines. I agree with you on a lot of the Mac zealot attitudes. I've always been more of a "Mac" guy, but those people even annoy the piss out of me and I'll play devils advocate just to get them all riled up.

I do have to say though, Mac's have come a long way since the Intel switch.

Originally Posted by firmhonda

Well, I'm just going to compare 2 laptops.. And it will be the D530 (the laptop that I'm on right now) and the macbook air w/1.6ghz...

So the Latitude d530 has a bigger/faster HD, faster processor, bigger screen, actually has an optical drive, and costs less than half of what the macbook air costs...

The problem with the comparison is that they arent competing products. They arent even using the same processor types. That Dell would more appropriately be compared to a Macbook. The machines I listed above match the target audience and market of the Air (as limited and expensive as it is) for an ultra portable sub-notebook. True, the Dell is still cheaper than the plain Macbook, but Macs are generally going to always lose on the cheap cheap end as they're unwilling to cut as many corners as many PC manufacturers to get a cheap accessible machine out (not saying its a good or bad thing either way).

Originally Posted by firmhonda

As I said before, I don't hate mac products... with the exception of the iPhone and the MBA, which I think I have shown why I dislike the MBA. The only people that the MBA is actually good for straight out of the box are college students that could use something small and lightweight to lug around the campus. The problem here is the fact that not all college students are spoiled rotten and can get mom and dad to fork over $1800 for a laptop with a single phone call. Matter of fact, most of the college students that I know (I am a college student myself) are barely making ends meet as it is, much less able to drop $1800 on any laptop, much less one that has less features than laptops that cost less than half as much.

I'm not inventing any reasons for not liking the MBA or the iPhone. Trust me, I don't just look at something ignorantly and make a decision on the spot. This is after doing a bit of research on the products and comparing them to other products around the same price.. which there isn't a single product on the market with so few features for $1800 that I have found yet. That, to me, is a complete rip-off and is proof that Apple is going out of there way to exploit its loyal customers for every dime that they can.

BTW, I sincerely apologize if this seems as if it's a personal attack against you. I assure you that it's not that in any way. I just think that it would be better for people to see in the future if they're considering a Macbook Air that they see a comparison to one single laptop instead of seeing a list of laptops that have one single thing that isn't as good as the MBA.

Aww ripping on my iPhone now love that thing to death. But seriously, the Air is NOT meant for college students. Some may get it from a spoiling mommy and daddy, but its really more of a business machine. And I'm not saying it's a perfect machine, I do agree that the lack of an ethernet jack sucks and they could have added a few more features to the machine, but I do think it has a place.

I also wasn't directing the ignorance remarks at you specifically. I just run into a lot of Windows fanboys that spout off all sorts of nonsense and try to pass if off as true (the mac fanboys do it too) and it just gets ridiculous and other people start believing it. Use what works best for the situation.

[atruhondagrl]

I would like to sum up this entire backwards and forwards tennis match of a thread.

Buy what you like. Buy what suits your lifestyle, needs,etc. Don't harangue people who choose differently than you for whatever reasons they choose to. Be happy with your own crap.

Macs are great for what they are. PCs are great for what they are. They both do amazing things and when it all comes down to it, they're both machines that are obsolete the moment you open the box that they came in.

[jomasoccer9]

I maybe off topic...but, I prefer BOTH!
Mac is a MAC!!!!
PC is all customization!!!
That's my opinion.

[gx4th]

Originally Posted by jomasoccer9

I maybe off topic...but, I prefer BOTH!
Mac is a MAC!!!!
PC is all customization!!!
That's my opinion.

I have my personal ibook, and my work laptop's a dell latitude. I don't really have any preference for either, except that my dell's more crash prone.

[spook4thecia]

Originally Posted by atruhondagrl

I would like to sum up this entire backwards and forwards tennis match of a thread.

Buy what you like. Buy what suits your lifestyle, needs,etc. Don't harangue people who choose differently than you for whatever reasons they choose to. Be happy with your own crap.

Macs are great for what they are. PCs are great for what they are. They both do amazing things and when it all comes down to it, they're both machines that are obsolete the moment you open the box that they came in.

Exactly.

Pretty much what I'm trying to say. I'm not trying to argue for/promote the MBA's place, I'm simply arguing that it has a place. (If that made sense lol) Like the ethernet port and op drive issue. I've had my MacBook for over 6 months. I have yet to plug it into an ethernet jack. I have yet to put a DVD into it. Now, if you threw in being wealthy and falling in love with the MBA'a design, suddenly it doesn't seem like such a stretch.

BTW---- Did you know you could get to 60 mph in a Nissan GTR faster than a Ferrari 575m....and that the Ferrari is like >double the price?! Those people who buy Ferrari's must be crazy, I can't imagine anyone would buy one! And Ferrari as a company is criminal for charging that much for an under-performing machine!


Excuse the sarcasm, the point is that a company will charge what people will pay. And the customer has the freedom to buy or not buy....as Firmhonda pointed out they have several other options. Apple is doing nothing ethically or morally wrong by charging what people will pay.

[txgriff]

I have a mac laptop and I love it, the video is really nice and when i start my computer it starts up right away and I don't have to wait to begin accessing files (mind you I have only the 2nd to worst laptop that they sell) and my gf's laptop which is a dell takes like 5 mins before you can anything. But I will say that I will more than likely have to get a PC because I love to play video games and macs aren't very strond in this field (especially when it comes to the selection). Both have their pros and cons but I have to say that a mac seems more solid, I have no viruses or spam and I don't even have any antivirus programs of anti spam programs, of course this will change when more people buy macs and it becomes more popular, but until then its a plus

[atruhondagrl]

Originally Posted by spook4thecia

Exactly.

Pretty much what I'm trying to say. I'm not trying to argue for/promote the MBA's place, I'm simply arguing that it has a place. (If that made sense lol) Like the ethernet port and op drive issue. I've had my MacBook for over 6 months. I have yet to plug it into an ethernet jack. I have yet to put a DVD into it. Now, if you threw in being wealthy and falling in love with the MBA'a design, suddenly it doesn't seem like such a stretch.

BTW---- Did you know you could get to 60 mph in a Nissan GTR faster than a Ferrari 575m....and that the Ferrari is like >double the price?! Those people who buy Ferrari's must be crazy, I can't imagine anyone would buy one! And Ferrari as a company is criminal for charging that much for an under-performing machine!


Excuse the sarcasm, the point is that a company will charge what people will pay. And the customer has the freedom to buy or not buy....as Firmhonda pointed out they have several other options. Apple is doing nothing ethically or morally wrong by charging what people will pay.

And I'm willing to pay a bit more for something that fits perfectly into my life style. The Pros are expensive, but I'm willing to save/wait.

[drnknbndr]

My concrusions:
Mac = notebook with training wheels.
PC = notebook with 55mm twin turbos.

Jea?

[trogers8]

i continue to love my macbook air. It works so well in class being so quiet and light, you can barely tell I'm using a notebook computer. Plus, I'm able to get great battery life out of it, I can make it through 3 classes and then some time in the library. It was definitely worth the money IMO..but I guess that's what it's all about...everyones opinion, regardless of facts. I for one love the fact it doesn't have a million extra ports and stuff on it i never use....I don't even use the 3 ports the computer came with except for my flash drive and updating my iphone every now and then.

[shadedream]

Originally Posted by drnknbndr

My concrusions:
Mac = notebook with training wheels.
PC = notebook with 55mm twin turbos.

Jea?

Not so much. PCWorld rated the Macbook Pro as the fastest Windows Vista notebook they tested (until one company released an 8 core, Macbook Pro is quad).

[06CivEXJon]

Windows XP>Vista. Stupid microsoft is going to stop supporting XP. Vista sucks balls.

[firmhonda]

Originally Posted by 06CivEXJon

Windows XP>Vista. Stupid microsoft is going to stop supporting XP. Vista sucks balls.

No joke. I networked a printer to all my computers today EXCEPT my vista laptop. I tried and tried and tried with the vista laptop and it just refused to connect.

We were talking about this in class today and we all came to the conclusion that Vista is actually the Beta for Windows 7.

Either way it pissed me off to no end because I could network the other computers (xp) in about 30 seconds flat, and after 30 minutes of trying with the vista I just gave up.

Vista sucks....

[shadedream]

Originally Posted by 06CivEXJon

Windows XP>Vista. Stupid microsoft is going to stop supporting XP. Vista sucks balls.

Actually they pushed back XP support yet again... I think it's now going to be supported into 2010 or 2011... I forget exactly... saw a press release on it the other day.