Modded LX Vs Stock Si?

[Sirbelch]

Originally Posted by inyong1988

si anyday anywhere

Have you read any post in this thread?

[ImBiginKorea]

err wouldn't the lsd still be better if you drive the corner appropriately? Go in slower pick up speed then accelerate to the outside of the corner on exit (controlled forward momentum understeer).

Or am I missing something?

--Korea

[Sirbelch]

You're missing the LSD "can" cause throttle induced understeer. This usually happens at the limit with a poorly set up LSD like ours.

[ricetastic]

Originally Posted by Sirbelch

You're missing the LSD "can" cause throttle induced understeer. This usually happens at the limit with a poorly set up LSD like ours.

Why don't you guys e-mail Honda and let them know about their poorly set up LSD and suspension. In fact tell them that they should manufacture the car with LX front sways and a better LSD. I'm sure their R&D department could use some advice you know. I'm sure Honda didn't spend much time on this issue as you and your friend clearly pointed out. Yeah, and forget motortrend, car and driver etc etc what do they know anyway? O wait, I am sorry...they did that on purpose to avoid liability issues because people can't drive.

So according to your theory an LX with a K20 swap would handle better than the Si assuming it had Si struts/springs?

[Sirbelch]

Originally Posted by ricetastic

Why don't you guys e-mail Honda and let them know about their poorly set up LSD and suspension. In fact tell them that they should manufacture the car with LX front sways and a better LSD. I'm sure their R&D department could use some advice you know. I'm sure Honda didn't spend much time on this issue as you and your friend clearly pointed out. Yeah, and forget motortrend, car and driver etc etc what do they know anyway? O wait, I am sorry...they did that on purpose to avoid liability issues because people can't drive.

Bingo. Lawyers run this country. We are just trying to make do with what we got. If Honda gave us a real civic, ah la Type R, we wouldn't have to try to make what Honda didn't. Since we don't have a lot of aftermarket sway bars at the moment, what is a guy to do when he wants more rotation, he could put a smaller front bar on. Futhermore, the Lx front bar will improve your time on an auto x course but it will be harder to get that improved time.

Also, you missed the word "can" as in "an lsd can cause throttle induced understeer." Also, Motortrend and Car and Driver test street car with the average buyer in mind. Revy and I are far from that.

Both Revy and I said that it can help on corner exit.

So according to your theory an LX with a K20 swap would handle better than the Si assuming it had Si struts/springs?

Bingo, you know your stuff (as long as you swap the rear sway bar too). Even with the swap, the Lx will still be lighter (although not as much as it is now) and have a lower Cg. Sun roofs kill Cg.

This thread posed the question of "Can a Lx with an upgraded suspension out handle an Si?" Yes, yes it can.

[Sirbelch]

To add to what I said, Honda makes the Si for the masses. They have to make compromise at every turn. How do you get a car to have good turn in and a good ride, you put a fat front sway bar on. Big fat sway bars in the front can reduce total front grip. Evn though this is a little of topic but, how do you keep the power hungry people and the EPA happy at the same time? Make a 250 hp engine make 197 hp.

I blew my straight line budget trying to find a suspension that works because I feel Honda didn't give me what I wanted. My 4th suspension (including stock) will be here in two weeks. That's the kind of handling junkie I am.

[friedk]

Interesting topic.

[WiseGuyLX]

Originally Posted by Sirbelch

To add to what I said, Honda makes the Si for the masses. They have to make compromise at every turn. How do you get a car to have good turn in and a good ride, you put a fat front sway bar on. Big fat sway bars in the front can reduce total front grip. Evn though this is a little of topic but, how do you keep the power hungry people and the EPA happy at the same time? Make a 250 hp engine make 197 hp.

I blew my straight line budget trying to find a suspension that works because I feel Honda didn't give me what I wanted. My 4th suspension (including stock) will be here in two weeks. That's the kind of handling junkie I am.

So is it good to have Si Front sway bars on the LX? I hear a lot of Si owners swapping their front solid for the hollow to allow more oversteer and make turning easier. Does that hold true for the LX and that keeping its stock front sway bar will handle better? Or is it because the LX body and weight is different that it would be more beneficial for having the Si front sway bar?

[friedk]

You want to reduce the front bar and increase the rear bar to help rotation.(Get sedan LX bar/progress rear sway) The LX body is the same.

The sedan front bar might not be worth it though..its only a 1mm difference.

Front Bar Size
4DR DX, LX, EX: 24.2mm
2DR DX, LX, EX: 25.4mm
4DR Si: 27mm
2DR Si: 28mm

[WiseGuyLX]

Why the sedan LX? Is it smaller? Just curious.

[friedk]

I edited in the info for you.

OE Rear Sways:
Non-Si: 10 or 11mm
Si: 17mm

If I'm not mistaken the Progress should be 22mm.

[WiseGuyLX]

thanks! that was really helpful. so just a progress rear sway and leave the front alone right? HFP suspension is coming soon along with custom alignment/camber kit.

[Sirbelch]

^^^ That set up will be a hoot. Be sure to add negative camber to the front.

[friedk]

Since I know this is gonna be brought up..

Right now it's
Si stock
vs
LX w/ HFP setup/Si sways/ same tires..

How about if the Si had the HFP suspension as well to make things equal?

[Sirbelch]

That might be to close to call.

[friedk]

So I guess it's driver's race.. and up to seat time and skill.

[Sirbelch]

I'm talking same driver. The numbers they pull will be close.

[friedk]

Is most of the extra weight from the engine/tranny on the Si? I'm curious because Honda lists their weight distribution as the same.

[2000civic]

Originally Posted by ricetastic

Why don't you guys e-mail Honda and let them know about their poorly set up LSD and suspension. In fact tell them that they should manufacture the car with LX front sways and a better LSD. I'm sure their R&D department could use some advice you know. I'm sure Honda didn't spend much time on this issue as you and your friend clearly pointed out. Yeah, and forget motortrend, car and driver etc etc what do they know anyway? O wait, I am sorry...they did that on purpose to avoid liability issues because people can't drive.

So according to your theory an LX with a K20 swap would handle better than the Si assuming it had Si struts/springs?

I think for the most part they are making this comparison in auto-x standards. If you think about it logically there is no reason why an LX with Si suspention, wheels and tires wouldnt handle on par with the Si. From my experiance the LSD helps the Si, but that is just from hauling ass on the streets, I have never auto-x. I can get the rear to rotate relitivly easy by lifting the thottle. I think the Lx being lighter would have the advantange in auto-x with suspention upgrades, however in any situation for example like a road course the LX is no longer in the picture.

[Sirbelch]

Originally Posted by friedk

Is most of the extra weight from the engine/tranny on the Si? I'm curious because Honda lists their weight distribution as the same.

Si is 61/39 Lx is 60/40. Although 1% doesn't seem like much, the Si carries 1760 lbs over the front wheels while the Lx only carries 1594 lbs. Thats a 166 lbs difference.