Skunk Pro-C Coil-Over Mini review:

[Moose]

Skunk Pro-C Coil-Over Mini review:

This Past Sunday I installed a Set of Skunk2 Pro-C Coilovers with the Skunk2 Rear camber arms on my Stock (Suspension) 06 Si Coupe. This is part of an upcoming magazine article and road-test for Modified Magazine. So that there is no misunderstanding here, I am NOT affiliated with Skunk2 or Modified Magazine, but the Writer for this article is a friend of mine (who I have raced with for years) and arranged this test.

The Setup:
Instead of doing a traditional test where you slap on the suspension and provide your “thoughts” on the setup, we decided that a more “scientific” approach was warranted, similar to doing before and after dyno testing of an intake etc.


We decided that we would do the following:
-Rent some time (4 hours) at a local road-race track (Dunnville).
-Use a professional driver (Not me), and take the car out and do number of baseline laps on the OE suspension (5) record the lap times, tire temps, tire pressures, and use a GPS based acquisition system to collect track data.
-Bring the car back into the pits, swap out the OE suspension for the Skunk-2 suspension, Do a quick DIY alignment (Toe) using a string-box.
-Take the Car out, and do another set of laps (5), and record the same data.
-We did a third set of runs (5) with different damper settings to see if we could optimize the performance/lap times.
-We did the test on a set of high-performance Street Tires as we felt it best matched what most people would be using with this sort of Setup.
-The Tires used for this test: Hankook Z212 (RS2) 235-40-17 on some BBS 17x8 Rims.
-We did NOT change tire pressures or anything else between the OE and Skunk2 runs, so that any changes in performance would indicative of the suspension improvement not some other factor.
-We ONLY lowered the car by about 1.5” as this is about the lowest you want to go, while still maintaining decent suspension geometry and travel.

The Car:
-2006 Civic Si Coupe

Mods to car:
-OE suspension, OE alignment
-"X" style intake
-235-40-17 Hankook Z212 tires on BBS 17x8 rims.
-Project Mu Brake pads, OE rotors, ATE Fluid


The Results:
With Dampers set a Front-6 (Half) and Rear-6 (Half) we picked up a full ½ second (on a 1:17.5 baseline run) over the OE Si Suspension. With The Dampers set at Front-6 (1/2 way) and Rear-12(full stiff) we picked up further ½ second for a total of ~1 second improvement. While this on the surface does not sound like much, in reality a full second improvement is huge in road-racing and even more impressive is that this was done on a VERY rough road-course where generally a stiffer suspension setup leads to slower times (less traction). We both feel that there would have been even larger lap-time improvements on a smoother road-course, and with some optimizing of the tire pressures and alignment settings for each particular setup (Tire data shows that there room for improvement in tire pressure and alignment settings). I also suspect that the lap-time improvements would have been even greater for a Non-Si Civic, in particular the Sedans as they have a much softer OE suspension setup overall.

Overall Impressions: (Track)
The setup worked very well with the car very controllable, and with boatloads of grip. There was minimal body roll, and could be driven hard and consistently. There was still “some” initial under-steer which was partially tamed by increasing the rear dampers to full stiff. This mild under-steer is due in part to the “Street” nature of this coil-over package (Done for safety and liability reasons). Some optional higher rate rear springs would allow this setup to very work well in a track/race environment, and the lap times woudl have dropped even more.

Overall driving impressions: (Street)
I have been running on these for the past couple of days, and have tried various damper settings. Overall I like this coil-over package; it works well as a performance street setup. It is most “lively” and fun with the dampers set to full stiff in the rear, however in my daily-driving role I have softened the damper settings somewhat to favor my aging and aching back . Even at full stiff it is reasonably comfortable; the decrease in ride “plush-ness” is well worth it from a performance perspective. Note: This is not a, luxury ride, it is a stiff more performance oriented ride.

Impressions – Installation:
The coilover’s were easy to install with no real issues. We had them swapped out in less than 2 hours, not to bad considering this is the first 8th Gen suspension swap I had ever done, and NO air-tools or hoists were involved. The instructions that came with the coil-over’s were not the most detailed, BUT in reality you should be using the Honda Helms (Shop manual) anyways when doing something of this nature (which I had with me). My only other minor issue was that the front ABS / Brake line brackets were a bit miss-aligned … no biggy a pair of pliers fixed that easy enough.


Skunk 2 ProC Basic Spec’s
Coilovers with adjustable ride-height and spring preload.
12-Step, Single adjustable dampers.
12kg (674lbs/in) front spring rates (OE Si - 200 lb/in. Front - 3.3X stiffer)
10kg (564lbs/in) rear spring rates (OE Si - 230 lb/in Rear - 2x Stiffer)
New Product Release: Pro-C Coilover 2006+ Honda Civic


Some Install Pictures

OE Front VS SK2


OE rear Arm VS SK2


Presetting the front camber


Rear Installed


Front Installed


Torquing Bolts to Spec


“Stringing” The Car ..ie measuring the Toe


Some Action Shots with the SK2 Coils installed










Picture of the track: Note: We ran counter clock-wise



================================================== ==========================

Here is a screen capture of the GPS / Telemetry Data gathered at a July Lapping Day at Shannonville Motorsports Park, on the "Long Track Configuration, A 4.03 km (2.5 mile) , 14 corner track.


This Data was gathered with a G2X GPS based datologger with a built in Accelerometer. It allow me to see my speed, accelleration, braking, and lateral G-forces, as well as wheel speed at various points on the track. (Plus other data like RPM that I did not bother capturing



With the OTS Skunk-2 Pro-C setup, Aggressive Alignment (-3 Camber all arround, 1/8" total toe-out up front, and 0 toe rear) Running 235-40-17 Toyo RA1 tires on 17x8 rims I managed regularily maintain well over 1 G of lateral force thru most of the fast corners, with highs of over 1.2G's in the fastest corners.

The track map (In grey) shows my location (yellow arrow) where I consistantly showed over 1.2G of lateral force at 65 MPH (104 KMH) ... this is a decreasing radius sweeper at the end of a 1/4 mile straitaway where I was seeing 98+ MPH (158 KMH) before I laid into the brakes, and turned into the corner.

Not to shabby for a OTS solution ... and the fact that I have not run on Long for over 5 years ... I was more than a bit rusty out there ...still trying to find my braking and turn-in points ... and my balls.


Moose

[jrotax101]

Nice to see people can finally stop flaming " non custom" coilovers.

I've had these on since the start, but have yet to go to a track ( going in 3 days) you beat me to it lol. :P

Nice review - try 4f 7r clicks for a DD set up thats moderately comfortable.

any squeaking from the rears?

what is the distance from the center of the hub to the fender? (ride height)

[AznSupastar]

sweeeeeeeet. since i have the same coil. i know u said u lowered it 1.5", but how much gap u have now? about 1 finger gap between tire and fender front and back?

so 6 front and 12 back is the best setting on track eh?

what about street, what setting were u at?

no SS brake lines?


thx moose!

[Moose]

Originally Posted by jrotax101

Nice to see people can finally stop flaming " non custom" coilovers.

I've had these on since the start, but have yet to go to a track ( going in 3 days) you beat me to it lol. :P

Nice review - try 4f 7r clicks for a DD set up thats moderately comfortable.

any squeaking from the rears?

what is the distance from the center of the hub to the fender? (ride height)

A custom coil/over package is a good way to go, particularily when you are competeing, as it allows you to build/design a setup that meets your particular needs. Many Of the shelf coil-over kits are somewhat to be desired in terms of performance, build quaity etc ... The SK2 setup is pretty good value for the money in my eyes.

Measurement from fender open to hub center ... about 13"

I have been playing with a couple of different damper setting ... right now I am on 2F and 12R ... Better initial turn-in but with a bit of a "over-damped" feel over bumps...

No squeeking at all ... just more road / bump noise overall

Originally Posted by AznSupastar

sweeeeeeeet. since i have the same coil. i know u said u lowered it 1.5", but how much gap u have now? about 1 finger gap between tire and fender front and back?

so 6 front and 12 back is the best setting on track eh?

what about street, what setting were u at?

no SS brake lines?


thx moose!

A little over a one Finger gap is approximately where I Initially set it ... The rear has settled a bit, and I have go back and re-set the ride height. I also have to corner balance and do an aggressive alignment.


We ran out of track time to test different damper settings ... I "think" that a bit less rebound in the front would have helped ... somewhere in the neibourhood of 2F and 12R. I want to keep the front damper setting on the low side based on the shock dyno data.


Street setting so far:
I run 0-0 when I am feeling old and creaky and 2-12 when I am feeling frisky

SS lines ... nope ... no need as the car's brakes are so overboosted that any increase in pedal feel from the lies is lost in the brake assist. I am looking at swapping out the Brake Booster for something with less assist.



Moose

[FastTimesAtFGHigh]

Nice review. Thank you for sharing. I don't have the Pro-C but I do have a set of Pro-S enroute.

[AznSupastar]

^lol, what happen to koni?! hahahahah

[AznSupastar]

Originally Posted by Moose

SS lines ... nope ... no need as the car's brakes are so overboosted that any increase in pedal feel from the lies is lost in the brake assist. I am looking at swapping out the Brake Booster for something with less assist.



Moose

really? mmm....cuz i tracked stock 2x at shannonville, and the brake fade was my bigger concern. i dunno if it was the stock brake pad, stock lines, or stock brake fluid. but my brakes were smoking, and felt mushy after 3-4 lap of aggressive driving.

now that i bought ur brakes, my goal is to increase brake power and eliminate the brake fade/mushy feeling. so if i were to run ur PBS brake pads, stock brake lines, and ATE brake fluid, would that reach my goal? thx!

[K20Redline]

Imaginary Rep too ya moose!!! As I stated in another thread my car was pushing so Im gona test your 2-12 on my lunch in two hours. Im running 5-9 as a DD.

[FastTimesAtFGHigh]

I like the height adjustability of the Pro-S. The modification to the OEM struts really turned me off. I don't have another extra $150 to buy a set of Si struts or $120 for their "core exchange". I know the Pro-S's are gonna ride a bit stiffer than their Pro-Kit/Yellows, but I'm willing to live with that.

Oh yeah, $609 shipped also helped!

Originally Posted by AznSupastar

^lol, what happen to koni?! hahahahah

[Moose]

Originally Posted by AznSupastar

really? mmm....cuz i tracked stock 2x at shannonville, and the brake fade was my bigger concern. i dunno if it was the stock brake pad, stock lines, or stock brake fluid. but my brakes were smoking, and felt mushy after 3-4 lap of aggressive driving.

now that i bought ur brakes, my goal is to increase brake power and eliminate the brake fade/mushy feeling. so if i were to run ur PBS brake pads, stock brake lines, and ATE brake fluid, would that reach my goal? thx!

Brake lines will have no effect on fade ...just feel.

Brake fade is primarily pads and fluid. The PBR Ultimates wil be better than OE but may still fade when you are lapping aggressivly (They are a performance street compound rather than a track compound) ... I tried out the ATE for the first time this weekend and was not overly impressed ... I am going back to Pentosin or Motul.

Originally Posted by K20Redline

Imaginary Rep too ya moose!!! As I stated in another thread my car was pushing so Im gona test your 2-12 on my lunch in two hours. Im running 5-9 as a DD.

I added the Progress 22mm Rear Sway bar to further dial out the inherent understeer ... It is better but I need more rear spring rate ... somwhere in the 1000# range I would guess

Moose

[drfters13]

great info. that guy looks like a biker

[jrotax101]

Moose, try the ex front sway also.. that will probably have more of an affect then anything

[AznSupastar]

Originally Posted by Moose

Brake lines will have no effect on fade ...just feel.

Brake fade is primarily pads and fluid. The PBR Ultimates wil be better than OE but may still fade when you are lapping aggressivly (They are a performance street compound rather than a track compound) ... I tried out the ATE for the first time this weekend and was not overly impressed ... I am going back to Pentosin or Motul.

Moose

which Motul u using? r u running project mu race or street? front and back?

r ur hankook tires dedicted track tires? or more for street + odd track days use?

[AznSupastar]

Originally Posted by FastTimesAtFGHigh

I like the height adjustability of the Pro-S. The modification to the OEM struts really turned me off. I don't have another extra $150 to buy a set of Si struts or $120 for their "core exchange". I know the Pro-S's are gonna ride a bit stiffer than their Pro-Kit/Yellows, but I'm willing to live with that.

Oh yeah, $609 shipped also helped!

holy crap, that's it? $609?! i want a back to back ride comparsion between ur car and mine! when u installing them?

[Moose]

Originally Posted by drfters13

great info. that guy looks like a biker

Thats Me in the pictures

Originally Posted by jrotax101

Moose, try the ex front sway also.. that will probably have more of an affect then anything

I agree a smaller front bar will help, but as the spring rates increase, the swaybars have less and less effect on the weight transfer.

Originally Posted by AznSupastar

which Motul u using? r u running project mu race or street? front and back?

r ur hankook tires dedicted track tires? or more for street + odd track days use?

Motul RBF 660 probably ... BUT I have a full Can of the Pentosin Race fluid which I really like ... I will change it out this weekend probably
Project MU HC+ (Titan Kai's) up front and Project MU B-Force out back

The Hankooks are my street tires ... I use Toyo RA1's in the same size for track days


Moose

[FastTimesAtFGHigh]

hopefully before our june meet.

Originally Posted by AznSupastar

holy crap, that's it? $609?! i want a back to back ride comparsion between ur car and mine! when u installing them?

[AznSupastar]

Originally Posted by Moose

Motul RBF 660 probably ... BUT I have a full Can of the Pentosin Race fluid which I really like ... I will change it out this weekend probably
Project MU HC+ (Titan Kai's) up front and Project MU B-Force out back

The Hankooks are my street tires ... I use Toyo RA1's in the same size for track days


Moose

i c....is ur hankook on par with kumho SPT level or something higher like toyo T1R?

can the Toyo RA1 run in wet? or is it dry only like the nitto NT01?

[Impreza_22B]

Curious to see what the lap time would be at Dunnville with some negative camber for the fronts.

[Moose]

Originally Posted by AznSupastar

i c....is ur hankook on par with kumho SPT level or something higher like toyo T1R?
can the Toyo RA1 run in wet? or is it dry only like the nitto NT01?

The Hankook Z212 R-S2 is one of the better INEXPENSIVE Dry Biased high performance summer performance tires out there IMHO ... Much better than the Kumho SPT ... the Kumho MX is closer to the Z212.

The Hankoook K104 is similar to the Toyo T1R ... a wet biased High performance Summer tire.

The Toyo RAI when at full Tread Depth is Freeking amazing in the rain ....the only thing that is better is a dedicated (R-compound) rain tire. If there is no standing water the RA1 is amazing in wet even when shaved.

Originally Posted by Impreza_22B

Curious to see what the lap time would be at Dunnville with some negative camber for the fronts.

I did have some negative camber ... and my tire temps were pretty good and even across the tread, showing me that the Camber settings were pretty close to optimal ...

Based on the initial tire data I think need about 1/2 degree more neg camber up front, and about 1/2 less out back for Dunnville.

Moose

[AznSupastar]

Originally Posted by Moose

The Hankook Z212 R-S2 is one of the better INEXPENSIVE Dry Biased high performance summer performance tires out there IMHO ... Much better than the Kumho SPT ... the Kumho MX is closer to the Z212.

The Hankoook K104 is similar to the Yoyo T1R ... a wet biased High performance Summer tire.

The Toyo RAI when at full Tread Depth is Freeking amazing in the rain ....the only thing that is better is a dedicated (R-compound) rain tire. If there is no standing water the RA1 is amazing in wet even when shaved.

Moose

i'm currently running on michelin exalto PE2 for streets, even tho the tire is expensive ($1000 for 18s) i'm luving the dry and wet grip. i intend to buy a seperate set for the track (17").

since i'm fairly new to tracking, i dunno if i should buy something so hardcore and expensive as Toyo RA1, or i should get something like the Hankook Z221 / Kumho MX. i just want something that can run wet and dry. what do u recommend / suggest?