Analysing Mugen "Type R" Sports supension Kit

[Moose]

Mugen Sport Suspension Kit – Type “R” version for 06+ Civics

I have been doing some digging on the Mugen Sport Suspension Kit for the Civic Type "R". Based on the info I have pulled from King and Mugen Japan, this is what I have found when comparing this kit to a OE Si suspension


Spring Rates:

OE (si)
(Front) 200 in/#-- (Rear) 230 in/#-- Spring Rate Stagger 1.15:1

Civic Type R (FD2)
(Front) 294 in/#-- (Rear) 345 in/#-- Spring Rate Stagger 1.17:1

Mugen “Type R” Set
(Front) 271-290 in/#--(Rear)367-390 in/#--- Spring Rate Stagger 1.35:1





Spring Rate Increase (Si to Mugen Type “R”)
Front-------------Rear----------------Stagger
35%-45% -------60%-70% ----------18% increase


Damping change of Mugen over OE Type “R” rates
High Speed damping - small increase F and R
Low-speed damping – Substantial Decrease front, Slight increase rear
BUT Should be a fair bit higher damping rates over OE Si Rate

Lowering
-10mm (0.4”) Lower than OE Type “R” ... about 0.75-1" Lower than OE Si

So we get substantially higher spring rates, with a fair bit more rear spring rate stagger. This should minimise the built-in understeer and make the car more neutral. The changes in shock valving should also help this while maintaining reasonable ride comfort.

This on the surface appears to be a VERY interesting option as a "street" setup untill Koni finally decides to play in our sand-box with OTS Sports (Yellows) as you have a good spring rate, good F/R stagger, and matched shock valving


Any thoughts on the above ?

Moose

[Moose]

Mugen Kit Consists of:

Assembled Shock / Spring combo (Front) and a Shock / Spring Set (rear)
-


Shock Dyno and spec's
-

[skandal57]

Never driven on a Mugen setup.. numbers make sense to reduce understeer... what type of anti-roll bar setup do they have though? that could make the difference in how the kit was setup.

[aki]

I'm using the Mugen Sports Suspension, and it's definitely more neutral through the corner--still transitionary understeer, which I chalk up to the ginormous front sway bar and the smaller rear sway. It's not tooth-clattering, either, which is very nice.

I believe CTR uses 26.4mm-ish for the front and 21mm to the rear.

[Sirbelch]

Moose, in the first post you say

High Speed damping - small increase F and R
Low-speed damping – Substantial Decrease front, Slight increase rear

But accordin to your shock dyno, the fronts have more damping everywhere and the rears have less damping everywhere. I could of course be reading the chart wrong.

[Moose]

Originally Posted by Sirbelch

Moose, in the first post you say

High Speed damping - small increase F and R
Low-speed damping – Substantial Decrease front, Slight increase rear

But accordin to your shock dyno, the fronts have more damping everywhere and the rears have less damping everywhere. I could of course be reading the chart wrong.

It's funny the "Numbers" show the above, but the graph shows what you describe ...so I am not to sure what to think ...it could be the "peak" numbers are higher, but the average (chart) is lower.

Most of my suspension knowledge is hands on ... so shock dyno's are a bit new for me ... though I have be looking at and playing with some Data Aquisition Histograms from the Shock sensors of a buds EG with Moton's ... a WHOLE new set of skills and knowledge to be worked on.

Moose

[Moose]

Originally Posted by aki

I'm using the Mugen Sports Suspension, and it's definitely more neutral through the corner--still transitionary understeer, which I chalk up to the ginormous front sway bar and the smaller rear sway. It's not tooth-clattering, either, which is very nice.

I believe CTR uses 26.4mm-ish for the front and 21mm to the rear.

AKI - Are you using the "regular" Mugen Sports Suspenesion kit or the "Type R" Varient .... based on the info on the Mugen Japan site the Type "R" is MUCH more aggressive than the regular version

I am flip flopping between building a "Street" car which can be tracked occationally ...which this Mugen (Type R variation) kit might work nicely for ... or go stupid with a Moton / Koni Custom / Hot Bits double adjustable setup ....


Moose

[GeezerSi]

I wonder how that compares to the HFP suspension...

[aki]

Originally Posted by Moose

AKI - Are you using the "regular" Mugen Sports Suspenesion kit or the "Type R" Varient .... based on the info on the Mugen Japan site the Type "R" is MUCH more aggressive than the regular version

I am flip flopping between building a "Street" car which can be tracked occationally ...which this Mugen (Type R variation) kit might work nicely for ... or go stupid with a Moton / Koni Custom / Hot Bits double adjustable setup ....


Moose

I'm using the regular sports suspension, which is a lot less aggressive than the Type R. But the dampening is a notch better (slower/more resistance esp in the rear) than the stock Si, which is what I was going for. So it's more fit for aggressive driving than the stock strut/springs. I'm definitely going for a street car, since I rack up 50 mi a day driving to and from work.

[jsb03f]

will these suspensions fit the coupe? And from what I have read here we are agreeing that the Mugen sport is LESS aggressive then the Mugen Type-R varient, meaning both the F&R low and high speed dampening is more aggressive, albeit but a little.

[Sirbelch]

Originally Posted by Moose

It's funny the "Numbers" show the above, but the graph shows what you describe ...so I am not to sure what to think ...it could be the "peak" numbers are higher, but the average (chart) is lower.

Most of my suspension knowledge is hands on ... so shock dyno's are a bit new for me ... though I have be looking at and playing with some Data Aquisition Histograms from the Shock sensors of a buds EG with Moton's ... a WHOLE new set of skills and knowledge to be worked on.
Moose

Well get on that and slap some knowledge over our heads.

[Sirbelch]

Originally Posted by Moose

AKI - Are you using the "regular" Mugen Sports Suspenesion kit or the "Type R" Varient .... based on the info on the Mugen Japan site the Type "R" is MUCH more aggressive than the regular version

I am flip flopping between building a "Street" car which can be tracked occationally ...which this Mugen (Type R variation) kit might work nicely for ... or go stupid with a Moton / Koni Custom / Hot Bits double adjustable setup ....


Moose

Well, do you have another track car in the garage? Or perhaps a non track car in the garage in which case you know you have to track the Si.

[Moose]

Originally Posted by Sirbelch

Well, do you have another track car in the garage? Or perhaps a non track car in the garage in which case you know you have to track the Si.

Not anymore ... I sold the Track Whore a couple of years ago (Prepped EG Hatch, gutted, caged, Tein's, multiple sets of rims/tires, Built 12:1 SOHC, etc plus more spares than you could shake a stick at) that was "Sort-of" street legal ...that I drove to and from the tracks, and to work when I was feeling frisky



Now with the FG ...and no more Garage, I need a more friendly, occational track car. I just have not figured out how stupid I want to go with it (I have a high pain threshold - I used to daily drive the hatch with 700# rear springs : )

I do have access to a MONSTER EG hatch that I have more hours into then I want to think about (Friends car) ... This is a built EG with K24/Cage/Motons/Data Aquisition/Aero that I may try to grab some seat time in this summer.

If OTS Konis Actually come out, it will be easier ... those plus a set of GC's will suffice ... unless Insanity sets in and I get some Double Adjsutables


Moose

[Moose]

Originally Posted by jsb03f

will these suspensions fit the coupe? And from what I have read here we are agreeing that the Mugen sport is LESS aggressive then the Mugen Type-R varient, meaning both the F&R low and high speed dampening is more aggressive, albeit but a little.

Mugen "Standard" Is a bit more aggressive then HPF by the sounds of it ... Mugen "Type R" is MUCH more aggressive ...about 30% more spring rate with way more rear rate stagger. In both cases they have appropriate Damping for the springs.


Moose

[Highrev1]

DOUBLE ADJUSTABLES MOOSE.....There calling you :) It would make for a better street ride having that additional adjustment

[skandal57]

ANYONE riding on these yet though?

[Sirbelch]

Originally Posted by Moose

Not anymore ... I sold the Track Whore a couple of years ago (Prepped EG Hatch, gutted, caged, Tein's, multiple sets of rims/tires, Built 12:1 SOHC, etc plus more spares than you could shake a stick at) that was "Sort-of" street legal ...that I drove to and from the tracks, and to work when I was feeling frisky

Now with the FG ...and no more Garage, I need a more friendly, occational track car. I just have not figured out how stupid I want to go with it (I have a high pain threshold - I used to daily drive the hatch with 700# rear springs : )

Me too

I do have access to a MONSTER EG hatch that I have more hours into then I want to think about (Friends car) ... This is a built EG with K24/Cage/Motons/Data Aquisition/Aero that I may try to grab some seat time in this summer.

If OTS Konis Actually come out, it will be easier ... those plus a set of GC's will suffice ... unless Insanity sets in and I get some Double Adjsutables

Moose

Thats me I'm insane. I'm getting those with GC springs. 450/800 f/r.
I run Tein Flex right now with 500/560 f/r and it is not bad around my town at all. You feel every bump, but those bumps don't hurt. However, on the freeway, where Cali spends $0 on in Northern Cali freeways, some bumps bruse kidneys (not really but it does hurt the back a little). So, I'm hopeing that with the better dampers, the ride will be firmer but more controlled. What kind of Teins did you run on the EG?

[Moose]

Originally Posted by Highrev1

DOUBLE ADJUSTABLES MOOSE.....There calling you :) It would make for a better street ride having that additional adjustment

I KNOW !!!!


STOP F**KIN Temping me .... I am A cheap bastard and I don t want to spend the money even though I want to spend the money


Moose

[aki]

Given my low threshold for bumpiness, I'd never be comfy with 500/560

[Highrev1]

MAN wait til you see the new setup we designed also....Your gonna $hit....