Hydraulic Power Steering Conversion for SI?

silverspoon1996 · 01-03-2008, 10:58 AM

Does anyone know which, If anyother steering rack from the other 06+ Civic Sedans, can bolt up to a 08 SI Sedan, other then the Electric one?

***k20z3 Koop*** · 01-03-2008, 01:10 PM

The JDM CTR has hydraulic PS....Not 100% sure it'd work though..prolly need more than just the rack too...

silverspoon1996 · 01-03-2008, 01:15 PM

JDM=RHD US is Left Hand Drive

***k20z3 Koop*** · 01-03-2008, 01:30 PM

Doh!

didn't even think of that. In that case I'd think you're SOL unless an aftermarket company gets involved...

soxfan143 · 01-03-2008, 09:22 PM

Why do you want hydraulic? It will rob power with the pump pully. The electric PWR ST is the reason we have 197 HP like the RSX-S. The RSX-s doesn't have balanced shafts like we do to rob power. That's one of the reasons they have the same Hp rating with hydraulic steering that we do without. So adding the extra pully along with the balanced shafts will rob you of HP. Right?

***k20z3 Koop*** · 01-03-2008, 09:52 PM

yup. Doesn't seem worth it at all for a tiny bit more road feel.

soxfan143 · 01-03-2008, 09:56 PM

Ya. That's what I'm saying. How much difference are you really gonna feel. If someone drove our car and then drove a TSX or RSX they wouldn't even know the difference if you didn't tell them or if they didn't know that ours was electric.

rbsjnh · 01-04-2008, 12:51 AM

I think it could make a big improvement, I've already been thinking about this...if you took a standard lx/dx/ex rack and a rsx powersteering pump and hoses you could make it work...you might need to make an extension of some sort or even a custom pressure hose...

I'm sure there is a reason they added it to the new ctr...

***boost1320*** · 01-04-2008, 05:30 AM

well when you find out what the reason actually is please do tell us because im sure nobody on here can see any advantages to doing it.

silverspoon1996 · 01-04-2008, 02:58 PM

My last honda I owned was my 96 Dx Hatch with a Spoon Crate motor. I had no power steering and i Liked it more that way. I would happy give up 4-5 Hp for Hydraulic steering over my electric steering.

rbsjnh: Thats pretty much what i am asking.. Does anyone know if the subframe is the same in the Si Sedan as it is in the NON-Si R18 powered civic sedan. So basically the question is... Is the subframe/steering box assembly of the same basic mounting design and location in the Si as it is in the Non-SI...

Any Honda techs that actually have looked at this stuff?

rbsjnh · 01-04-2008, 03:05 PM

I cant give you a definitive, but I'm sure it could work...time and patience...I bet you do not want to replace the subframe because of the mounts...but the racks, knowing honda must be interchangeable...

rbsjnh · 01-04-2008, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boost1320

well when you find out what the reason actually is please do tell us because im sure nobody on here can see any advantages to doing it.

Just because you don't value an opinion, that doesn't make it wrong...

Quote from edmonds:

The only point of contention thus far is the Honda's steering. Some thought the tight steering in line with the Si's sporty nature while others felt intimidated by it. "The steering is so fast it's a little scary," Phil penned in the logbook. "When you're in a corner, and release the wheel to return to center, it snaps back violently. I think Honda overdid it in that category." Inside Line Editor in Chief Richard Homan concurred, "Low-speed is heavier than I expected and the return to on-center is violent."

Wow someone else besides me thought the steering was to dampened, hmmm maybe thats why the new ctr made that change....hmmm...wow.

soxfan143 · 01-04-2008, 08:26 PM

I still don't know why you would want to spend the money on this and then deal with all the possible problems that it will create. And 4-5 hp is hard to come by when you're NA. Is it really going to be that much better? Isn't it speed sensitive steering? It gets tighter atr higher speeds. Right? So That control for this will be in the ECU. SO you will have that real loose steering at high speedsisince our ECU doesn't control Hydraulic steering. Also I think the electric power steering is tied in with the ABS through the ECU. Removeing it will definately throw a CEL along with that little steering wheel symbol and an ABS light. Your dash will look like a Christmas tree.

rbsjnh · 01-04-2008, 08:27 PM

thats what black electrical tape is for...

soxfan143 · 01-04-2008, 09:36 PM

That looks horrible. Black electrical tape on an 07 Si. Maybe if I was gaining like 15 Hp out of it I would do the Black tape thing but for a different steering system that you probably wouldn't even notice. Not worth it in my opinion. To each his own I guess. Also, If all those Warning lights are on none of those systems will work. The ABS will not function and you will not have the speed sensitive steering any more because the ECU won't run the Hydraulic system. But like I said, to each his own.

silverspoon1996 · 01-06-2008, 03:34 AM

Hydraulic systems are run off mechanic belt driven pumps... not ecu's... if you disconnect the power to the rack its stiffer then a non-powersteering rack... 1000x's over.. the system in the car is not intended for racing. It is sporty but its too loose.. and when the tires break loose it feels all over the road. I want a better feel, I feel as if my car produces enough power that I would without a doubt give up a coupe of HP for good ol' fashion powersteering. If you are satisfied with what I feel is one of the cars short comings then thats ok with me. and your ABS has zero to do with the powersteering.

silverspoon1996 · 01-06-2008, 03:35 AM

though when I first took out my car after the basic bolt ons and the tires broke loose and kicked off the electric assist at 70 mph, and the light came on the dash for the steering.. I did lose Vtec.

2000civic · 01-06-2008, 04:39 AM

Are you dead set on hydraulic steering? Any reason why you dont take out the power steering all together? That seems to be the most reasonable option. As for your original question, Im thinking if you really are set on it, you will need to do some custom work to get hydraulic PS.

rbsjnh · 01-06-2008, 10:25 AM

I dont think there is that much custom work needed...through the years of H major custom work was never required for something like this...thats the beauty of the H, they try to make everything so interchangeable to minimize on production costs...

To the OP...pick up the rack at a junk yard, I'd bet it would be less than $100 used, its worth a shot...my car is presently my dd, so I am unwilling at the present, but its always interesting to see someone be an innovator rather than a sheep...

Good luck

silverspoon1996 · 01-06-2008, 11:58 AM

Thank you, I dont understand why when someone makes a post others question WHY they would want to do it. I just asked if anyone has experience with it. Im sure for a hundo i could pick up a rack.. but I know its not going to be as simple as swapping in the rack mounting up the PS pump and get it working... sometimes junkyard parts dont work. plus i cant get an alignment on the weekend, i rather know for a fact that someone else tried it and it fit or be able to throw another sedan up side by side with mine on lifts and do some measuring.

01-03-2008, 10:58 AM	#1 (permalink)
silverspoon1996 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Rockland County New York Age: 27 Posts: 757 JJ iTrader: 0 / 0%	Hydraulic Power Steering Conversion for SI? Does anyone know which, If anyother steering rack from the other 06+ Civic Sedans, can bolt up to a 08 SI Sedan, other then the Electric one?

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01-03-2008, 01:10 PM	#2 (permalink)
*k20z3 Koop* Grab her face Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Mass Posts: 1,803 Keith iTrader: 5 / 100%	The JDM CTR has hydraulic PS....Not 100% sure it'd work though..prolly need more than just the rack too...

01-03-2008, 01:15 PM	#3 (permalink)
silverspoon1996 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Rockland County New York Age: 27 Posts: 757 JJ iTrader: 0 / 0%	JDM=RHD US is Left Hand Drive

01-03-2008, 01:30 PM	#4 (permalink)
*k20z3 Koop* Grab her face Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Mass Posts: 1,803 Keith iTrader: 5 / 100%	Doh! didn't even think of that. In that case I'd think you're SOL unless an aftermarket company gets involved...

01-03-2008, 09:22 PM	#5 (permalink)
soxfan143 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lynnfield, MA Age: 34 Posts: 3,471 Mike iTrader: 4 / 100%	Why do you want hydraulic? It will rob power with the pump pully. The electric PWR ST is the reason we have 197 HP like the RSX-S. The RSX-s doesn't have balanced shafts like we do to rob power. That's one of the reasons they have the same Hp rating with hydraulic steering that we do without. So adding the extra pully along with the balanced shafts will rob you of HP. Right?

01-03-2008, 09:52 PM	#6 (permalink)
*k20z3 Koop* Grab her face Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Mass Posts: 1,803 Keith iTrader: 5 / 100%	yup. Doesn't seem worth it at all for a tiny bit more road feel.

01-03-2008, 09:56 PM	#7 (permalink)
soxfan143 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lynnfield, MA Age: 34 Posts: 3,471 Mike iTrader: 4 / 100%	Ya. That's what I'm saying. How much difference are you really gonna feel. If someone drove our car and then drove a TSX or RSX they wouldn't even know the difference if you didn't tell them or if they didn't know that ours was electric.

01-04-2008, 12:51 AM	#8 (permalink)
rbsjnh Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: in yo mama Posts: 1,550 WARNING: Honda Zealot iTrader: 0 / 0%	I think it could make a big improvement, I've already been thinking about this...if you took a standard lx/dx/ex rack and a rsx powersteering pump and hoses you could make it work...you might need to make an extension of some sort or even a custom pressure hose... I'm sure there is a reason they added it to the new ctr...

01-04-2008, 02:58 PM	#10 (permalink)
silverspoon1996 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Rockland County New York Age: 27 Posts: 757 JJ iTrader: 0 / 0%	My last honda I owned was my 96 Dx Hatch with a Spoon Crate motor. I had no power steering and i Liked it more that way. I would happy give up 4-5 Hp for Hydraulic steering over my electric steering. rbsjnh: Thats pretty much what i am asking.. Does anyone know if the subframe is the same in the Si Sedan as it is in the NON-Si R18 powered civic sedan. So basically the question is... Is the subframe/steering box assembly of the same basic mounting design and location in the Si as it is in the Non-SI... Any Honda techs that actually have looked at this stuff?

01-04-2008, 03:05 PM	#11 (permalink)
rbsjnh Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: in yo mama Posts: 1,550 WARNING: Honda Zealot iTrader: 0 / 0%	I cant give you a definitive, but I'm sure it could work...time and patience...I bet you do not want to replace the subframe because of the mounts...but the racks, knowing honda must be interchangeable...

01-04-2008, 08:26 PM	#13 (permalink)
soxfan143 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lynnfield, MA Age: 34 Posts: 3,471 Mike iTrader: 4 / 100%	I still don't know why you would want to spend the money on this and then deal with all the possible problems that it will create. And 4-5 hp is hard to come by when you're NA. Is it really going to be that much better? Isn't it speed sensitive steering? It gets tighter atr higher speeds. Right? So That control for this will be in the ECU. SO you will have that real loose steering at high speedsisince our ECU doesn't control Hydraulic steering. Also I think the electric power steering is tied in with the ABS through the ECU. Removeing it will definately throw a CEL along with that little steering wheel symbol and an ABS light. Your dash will look like a Christmas tree.

01-04-2008, 08:27 PM	#14 (permalink)
rbsjnh Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: in yo mama Posts: 1,550 WARNING: Honda Zealot iTrader: 0 / 0%	thats what black electrical tape is for...

01-04-2008, 09:36 PM	#15 (permalink)
soxfan143 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lynnfield, MA Age: 34 Posts: 3,471 Mike iTrader: 4 / 100%	That looks horrible. Black electrical tape on an 07 Si. Maybe if I was gaining like 15 Hp out of it I would do the Black tape thing but for a different steering system that you probably wouldn't even notice. Not worth it in my opinion. To each his own I guess. Also, If all those Warning lights are on none of those systems will work. The ABS will not function and you will not have the speed sensitive steering any more because the ECU won't run the Hydraulic system. But like I said, to each his own.

01-06-2008, 03:34 AM	#16 (permalink)
silverspoon1996 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Rockland County New York Age: 27 Posts: 757 JJ iTrader: 0 / 0%	Hydraulic systems are run off mechanic belt driven pumps... not ecu's... if you disconnect the power to the rack its stiffer then a non-powersteering rack... 1000x's over.. the system in the car is not intended for racing. It is sporty but its too loose.. and when the tires break loose it feels all over the road. I want a better feel, I feel as if my car produces enough power that I would without a doubt give up a coupe of HP for good ol' fashion powersteering. If you are satisfied with what I feel is one of the cars short comings then thats ok with me. and your ABS has zero to do with the powersteering.

01-06-2008, 03:35 AM	#17 (permalink)
silverspoon1996 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Rockland County New York Age: 27 Posts: 757 JJ iTrader: 0 / 0%	though when I first took out my car after the basic bolt ons and the tires broke loose and kicked off the electric assist at 70 mph, and the light came on the dash for the steering.. I did lose Vtec.

01-06-2008, 04:39 AM	#18 (permalink)
2000civic Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rancho Cucamunga,California Age: 20 Posts: 1,576 Robert iTrader: 0 / 0%	Are you dead set on hydraulic steering? Any reason why you dont take out the power steering all together? That seems to be the most reasonable option. As for your original question, Im thinking if you really are set on it, you will need to do some custom work to get hydraulic PS.

01-06-2008, 10:25 AM	#19 (permalink)
rbsjnh Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: in yo mama Posts: 1,550 WARNING: Honda Zealot iTrader: 0 / 0%	I dont think there is that much custom work needed...through the years of H major custom work was never required for something like this...thats the beauty of the H, they try to make everything so interchangeable to minimize on production costs... To the OP...pick up the rack at a junk yard, I'd bet it would be less than $100 used, its worth a shot...my car is presently my dd, so I am unwilling at the present, but its always interesting to see someone be an innovator rather than a sheep... Good luck

01-06-2008, 11:58 AM	#20 (permalink)
silverspoon1996 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Rockland County New York Age: 27 Posts: 757 JJ iTrader: 0 / 0%	Thank you, I dont understand why when someone makes a post others question WHY they would want to do it. I just asked if anyone has experience with it. Im sure for a hundo i could pick up a rack.. but I know its not going to be as simple as swapping in the rack mounting up the PS pump and get it working... sometimes junkyard parts dont work. plus i cant get an alignment on the weekend, i rather know for a fact that someone else tried it and it fit or be able to throw another sedan up side by side with mine on lifts and do some measuring.