Shocks/Springs or Full Coilover setup?

[hiphapasole]

hey guys i searched on this and found a thread that gives you the basis of the information regarding my topic. Now though i want to get more specific i want to know which setup you prefer or think is better for a DD/Track Si. Thanks in advance.

Setups:
Eibach sportline springs or progress (i know eibach is a really good company, but progress im not sure about)
Koni yellow shocks/struts

or

Buddy club N+
Tein SS
FnF fullcoilovers

input would be great guys thank you again.

[hiphapasole]

bump for some info.

[Sirbelch]

Koni Sports (yellows) and Ground Control springs. That will smoke anything you have on that list on the streets and on the track. The only problem is, Koni Sports aren't out yet. You get to pick your own spring rate with the GC springs (and the ride height) and the Konis actually adjust the shock dyno curve in the area that effects handling the most, low speed damping. The off the shelf coilovers just adjust mid speed damping which slightly effects handling but has a bigger effect on how well the car rides. Koni Sports and GC springs will cost just a much as the N1, SS and FnF coilovers. Read the Stickies (light blue threads at top of page) because those will really learn you something. So, start reading.

[hiphapasole]

man that clears a lot up, because before people i talked to would always tell me ahh spring/shock combos aren't good as full coilover setups so i guess i always had that misconception. so thanks for clearing that up. Since the koni' aren't out yet how what are you running?

[Sirbelch]

I've had Tein SS (super shity) and I now have Tein Flex (better than the SS but a huge disappointment considering the "on paper" specs). After a hard lesson learned, I ordered Red Shift Motorsports Custom Koni Double Adjustable Coilovers. They should kick ass when they come in. A full report will be done on just how kick ass these things are.

[hiphapasole]

yeah for awhile tein has been a little dissapointing, but i think that its due to such a high demand all of a sudden. But thats just what i think haha

those custom koni double adjustable coilovers how much do those run for? and what are the specs on those? i cant find them on the website

[Sirbelch]

Originally Posted by hiphapasole

yeah for awhile tein has been a little dissapointing, but i think that its due to such a high demand all of a sudden. But thats just what i think haha

those custom koni double adjustable coilovers how much do those run for? and what are the specs on those? i cant find them on the website

Redshift is a site sponsor. The thing about their coilovers are, they are custom, so you pick the specs. Their web site has them posted at 2650 last i checked.

The dissapointment from Tein has nothing to do with demand and everything to do with R&D which it seems they do little of. Honda even gave Tein a prototype FG chassis to develope thier suspension before other companies did and it still didn't help.

[hiphapasole]

dang that sucks they were the ones who came out with that widebody FG too. the first modded FG or whatever. i remember that now.

[Sirbelch]

Tein got one, HASport got one, Temple of VTEC got one and I think AEM/DC got one too,.

[simons2k]

My experience tells me for street driving, springs should suffice. If you want to track your car then coilovers.

I tracked my previous car with springs and oem shocks and I knew I needed coilovers after the event.

BTW, the springs were H&R. The coilovers were Tein RAs (S2000 application).

[Sirbelch]

Originally Posted by simons2k

My experience tells me for street driving, springs should suffice. If you want to track your car then coilovers.

I tracked my previous car with springs and oem shocks and I knew I needed coilovers after the event.

BTW, the springs were H&R. The coilovers were Tein RAs (S2000 application).

Lowering springs don't improve handling though. Some people want better handling on the streets thats why they change the springs/dampers.

Now that is a Tein product that they actually do R&D on. But those aren't in the price range of the SS, N1, FnF, Koni Sport/GC.

The stock front suspension is a coilover set up.

[simons2k]

Originally Posted by Sirbelch

Lowering springs don't improve handling though. Some people want better handling on the streets thats why they change the springs/dampers.

Now that is a Tein product that they actually do R&D on. But those aren't in the price range of the SS, N1, FnF, Koni Sport/GC.

The stock front suspension is a coilover set up.

The H&R springs reduced body roll in my S2k. Too me that is a handling improvement. Not the same results that you would get with adjustable coilovers, of course.

And yes, the stock fronts are a non-adjustable coilover set up.

[LucasBlack]

reduced body roll does not necessarily equal better handling.

ever wonder as to why you had less body roll? is it perhaps, since you had lowering springs which thereby reduced the available shock travel, that when pushing the car hard at all you would end up on the bumpstops sooner than before? i have the strange inclination to believe that the spring rates for the h&r's weren't uprated enough to compensate for the amount of drop they provided.

our cars (being production street cars) aren't immediately designed for rock hard suspensions. available/useable suspension travel, which will almost undoubtedly include some body roll, is NOT a bad thing!
-- when, especially approaching the limit, it's better for your car to have a bit more leeway and undulation abilities to compensate for imperfections in the road or simply the changes in the pavement. that's what dampers are for - to DAMPEN impacts. you start cutting too much of that off and then you are effectively making your car handle WORSE. is it possible that it "feels" sportier or that it "handles" better because it stays flatter? perhaps. but the butt-o-meter has never been all that reliable, so we should stop using that as evidence.


pay attention and READ THOROUGHLY through the stickies everyone....they are there for a reason.

[hiphapasole]

man i learned so much in a short amount of time lol. yeah i read the "suspension!!!" sticky about 4 times just to make sure i understand it haha. thanks again very everyones input

[simons2k]

Originally Posted by LucasBlack

reduced body roll does not necessarily equal better handling.

ever wonder as to why you had less body roll? is it perhaps, since you had lowering springs which thereby reduced the available shock travel, that when pushing the car hard at all you would end up on the bumpstops sooner than before? i have the strange inclination to believe that the spring rates for the h&r's weren't uprated enough to compensate for the amount of drop they provided.

our cars (being production street cars) aren't immediately designed for rock hard suspensions. available/useable suspension travel, which will almost undoubtedly include some body roll, is NOT a bad thing!
-- when, especially approaching the limit, it's better for your car to have a bit more leeway and undulation abilities to compensate for imperfections in the road or simply the changes in the pavement. that's what dampers are for - to DAMPEN impacts. you start cutting too much of that off and then you are effectively making your car handle WORSE. is it possible that it "feels" sportier or that it "handles" better because it stays flatter? perhaps. but the butt-o-meter has never been all that reliable, so we should stop using that as evidence.


pay attention and READ THOROUGHLY through the stickies everyone....they are there for a reason.

whoah... Just trying to give someone my perspective based on my experience. My original post was to inform what suspension product I had and in what situation. Not claiming for better or worse handling. Someone felt they had to question my post (not you) and try to drop some knowledge.

Better handling is a personal choice and can be defined differently because of different goals intended by the driver. Not only did the H&R springs reduced (not eliminated) body roll in my car, but it delivered a slightly cushier ride compared to oem. Perfect for that car, as a daily driver...for me. Exactly what I wanted over the oem setup. So if you ask me if my car handles better with the HR springs my answer will be yes for it's intent.

As far as a track setup, the HR springs couldn't cut it obviously. So the move to the Tein coilovers were necessary.

It's all good, we're all trying to learn and have fun with our cars

[Highrev1]

Kinda semantics but better handling usually means less time through a turn..

[aki]

Originally Posted by Sirbelch

Lowering springs don't improve handling though. Some people want better handling on the streets thats why they change the springs/dampers.

Lowering springs alone can improve your times. It's just not as helpful as a full coilover setup though.

http://www.tirerack.com/a.jsp?a=AI7&...032%26code=yes

[Highrev1]

.23 seconds on a lap is gained...Will you notice that on the street?

[Borbor]

Originally Posted by Highrev1

Kinda semantics but better handling usually means less time through a turn..

We have to make sure the guys talking about better "handling" aren't confusing with having a chassis that's more responsive.

[aki]

Originally Posted by Highrev1

.23 seconds on a lap is gained...Will you notice that on the street?

Considering the lap was 30 seconds, that's an awfully short lap and I doubt there were too many corners. You'd definitely notice a difference in feel, considering it definitely won't ride the same or feel the same when the springs compress in hard cornering. Granted, you'll never feel the .05 secs you save per lap--but my point still stands in that lowering springs aren't entirely cosmetic.