Serious race car suspension setup wanted

[MikeColangelo]

What are folks using for serious road racing (road course) suspensions. I had my '06 Civic Si at Buttonwillow Raceway recently and had the following issues:
1. Excessive body roll
2. The car just didn't feel "planted" like full-blown road race cars that I've driven
3. The car felt twitchy and unbalanced going through the esses.

My car is pretty stock but has Falken Azenis tires (225s), Carbotech racing brake pads, Ingalls camber bolts up front, and DOT 4 brake fluid. It was fun to drive but I feel like I'm leaving so much on the table with the current stock suspension and tire setup.

Future plans are to turn the car into a serious track car and maybe a Honda Challenge race car. I'd also like to run DOT-R tires (e.g., Hoosiers). So, going to a full-blown race suspension now is acceptable.

So, what are folks using on the track?

[Xtreme Thunder]

1. Start with Max Preformance or Extreme Performance Summer tires. You will be supprised on how an excellent tire will make a difference.

2. Get an alignment that is more agressive that will give more rotation.

3. Please, not being an ass or anything, read the Stickied Posts on the top of the Suspenion Forum Section. They have tons of info about suspensions and of such.

Good luck!

[MikeColangelo]

Originally Posted by Xtreme Thunder

3. Please, not being an ass or anything, read the Stickied Posts on the top of the Suspenion Forum Section. They have tons of info about suspensions and of such.

Good luck!

I did read the stickies but they apply mostly to guys that want a more sportier/better looking street car. That's why I was asking for info on true road racing suspensions. Surprisingly, there's very little info out there.

I'm tempted to try out the H&R sport springs w/ Koni sport shocks and tweak it from there with sways and camber/toe adjustments. But I'm hoping that someone's already gone this route.

[Sirbelch]

Koni sports aren't out yet so no one has gone that route. Right now, you have 2 hard car options. First, 4 way adjustableMotons. A set of four dampers will set you back 10gs and that doesn't include things like springs and camber plates. Or second, Redshift Motorsports (a site sponsor) Double Adjustable Custom Koni Coilovers. They will build custom valved DA Konis and then weld on the threaded sleeve from Ground Control and then put on some custom rate GC springs. Since the RSM coilovers are custom, you will have to wait for a while before you get them. Price on their web site is 2650. Thats about it at the moment.

[Sirbelch]

Originally Posted by MikeColangelo

I did read the stickies but they apply mostly to guys that want a more sportier/better looking street car. That's why I was asking for info on true road racing suspensions. Surprisingly, there's very little info out there.

I'm tempted to try out the H&R sport springs w/ Koni sport shocks and tweak it from there with sways and camber/toe adjustments. But I'm hoping that someone's already gone this route.

I would hardly consider that a "race suspension" because that can't even be corner weighted an the springs aren't stiff enough. A race suspension is going to need at least 600 lbs/in up front and 800 lbs/in in the rear. With rates that high, you are going to need a full cage to take advantage of them. I sure you already knew that. Also, there aren't enough (any) adjustable suspension pieces that are going to allow for roll center adjustments and things of that nature. The FG/FA chassis is a ways away from off the shelf racing suspensions.

[Highrev1]

Originally Posted by MikeColangelo

What are folks using for serious road racing (road course) suspensions. I had my '06 Civic Si at Buttonwillow Raceway recently and had the following issues:
1. Excessive body roll
2. The car just didn't feel "planted" like full-blown road race cars that I've driven
3. The car felt twitchy and unbalanced going through the esses.

So, what are folks using on the track?

Body roll is not indication of how well the car handles.
Planted or riding on rails is not the fastest way around the track.
Explain exactly what the car is doing...and where in the turn it is doing and what as a driver you are doing to cause it.

Originally Posted by MikeColangelo

I did read the stickies but they apply mostly to guys that want a more sportier/better looking street car.

I'm tempted to try out the H&R sport springs w/ Koni sport shocks and tweak it from there with sways and camber/toe adjustments.

I am almost offended by this, the theories in the the stickies apply for racing more so than the ricers on the street.

As a "racer" you want adjustment, H&R's are progressive which is not good, and a set spring rate.

My setup is custom konis with some custom spring rates on Ground controls, I will also probably run NO front sway bar, about -4 degrees of front camber and play with toe if needed. What is the real goal of the car a real track car or a dd that does trak days?

[Highrev1]

You want somthing like this?








Or is this too extreme?

[Sirbelch]

My goal is DD with some track days and I ordered a set of the RedShift Motorsports coilovers. They should be plenty stiff enough of the track and just soft enough to run on the streets.

[Sirbelch]

Originally Posted by Highrev1

You want somthing like this?








Or is this too extreme?

Now THATS a track car.

[Sirbelch]

Does that last pic have the sun roof open? I figured you would have welded that thing closed.

[Solo2EG]

We run Moton dampers on our 8th gen touring cars (one sedan and one coupe) but the suspension has been highly modified to run a true coilover in the rear (more like a TSX unit) instead of the separate spring and shock like on the stock Si. This is probably a little more than you want to spend though...

Here's a thread that has some links to pics of the cars...
2007 Civic Touring Car @ Mosport

don't really have any pics of the build, I'll see if I can take some when we tear them both down and rebuild over the winter...


One of the teams we compete against has put a full coilover in the back of their FG2 as well
http://www.lombardiracing.com/fr/inf...spy?catid=766#

[Sirbelch]

That is some kick ass stuff. How did you get an Si body without a sunroof? I thought that was standard equipment.

[Solo2EG]

We work out of the plant in Alliston, we pretty much get what we need.

[Sirbelch]

^^^That kinda sorta helps, doesn't it.

[LucasBlack]

Originally Posted by Highrev1

...that's my type of office chair....time to get to business!

[Highrev1]

Originally Posted by Solo2EG

One of the teams we compete against has put a full coilover in the back of their FG2 as well
http://www.lombardiracing.com/fr/inf...spy?catid=766#

Is that Aldo Lombardi? He bought the race car I have pictured

[Jardiniboy]

Originally Posted by Solo2EG

We run Moton dampers on our 8th gen touring cars (one sedan and one coupe) but the suspension has been highly modified to run a true coilover in the rear (more like a TSX unit) instead of the separate spring and shock like on the stock Si. This is probably a little more than you want to spend though...

Here's a thread that has some links to pics of the cars...
2007 Civic Touring Car @ Mosport

don't really have any pics of the build, I'll see if I can take some when we tear them both down and rebuild over the winter...


One of the teams we compete against has put a full coilover in the back of their FG2 as well
http://www.lombardiracing.com/fr/inf...spy?catid=766#

I'm just wondering, do you have any pictures of the true coilovers on the rear of the car?

[aki]

Originally Posted by MikeColangelo

What are folks using for serious road racing (road course) suspensions. I had my '06 Civic Si at Buttonwillow Raceway recently and had the following issues:
1. Excessive body roll
2. The car just didn't feel "planted" like full-blown road race cars that I've driven
3. The car felt twitchy and unbalanced going through the esses.

Given that you're using abstract impressions (eg not feeling planted) as opposed to specific criticisms (excessive transitional understeer, inadequate dampening, etc), I think you should get a feel more for what specifically you want and don't want from a setup before embarking on a race-dedicated setup.

For example, as Highrev said, less body roll isn't always better. There comes a point where the lack of roll causes the inside tires to get underworked, the outside tires overworked due to the greater weight. Body roll is needed so that both the outside and inside tires do their share of traction.

Granted this isn't only dictated by sway bar thickness, but also rebound resistance in the dampers. This is stuff covered in the sticky, so the fact that you blew it off shows to me you're looking for some canned, "best" set up.

But the setup that you consider to be "best" ultimately depends on you own preferences, how you tackle apexes, etc. And whether you want to blow $10k on Motons, $5k on M&M tuned AP racing BBKs

[Sirbelch]

^^^^

[MikeColangelo]

Guys, thanks for your feedback. You guys gave me the answers that I needed and I appreciate that.

Yes, I was hoping for something off-the-shelf but I guess it's just too soon for 8th gen Civics. I'm hoping that suspension kits like those for Spec E30 and Spec Miata race cars will eventually be available for our cars. They are simple, affordable, and work quite well.

FWIW, I did peruse the stickies but quite frankly could not find the info I wanted there. With post counts well over 100, they lose coherence and become confusing. Lots of guys are more interested in dropping their cars for looks than for performance. That's why I started this thread. Thanks again!