Brake options

[Moose]

Originally Posted by TurboBlue

True.But i just thought that even without resurfacing, that at least i would feel a noticeable difference in braking power after changing the pads which i really did not feel at all.

First thing - Hawk HPS are a street compound, and not alot more aggressive than OE ... so braking performance will only be slightly better than OE.

Related to the Above :

Pads NEED a layer of THEIR specific pad material on the rotors for them to work properly. A layer of the old pad material will not work "well" with the new pads, particularily a street compound which is not normally aggressive enough to remove the old layer.

Bare steel / iron is actually quite slippery, particularily when wet, so how do the pads actually grab the rotors and slow down the car?
Well on a virgin rotor when you initially "bed-in" the rotors you are actually transfering a layer of pad material from the pads to the surface of the rotor (at the microscopic/molecular level).
This very thin layer of pad material does a couple of things. Creates a "wear surface" that protects the rotor from being worn out to quickly(Iron is fairly soft and this layer creates equivellent wear), and provides a friction surface for the pads to grip.

So when you are changing pads it is generally a good idea to at least resurface the rotors, or turn them if they are grooved or warped.

As stated above, if the rotors are in good condition a few carefull passes with a random orbital sander ...in a circular motion, will remove the old transfer layer and provide a virgin metal surface for the new pads to work with.

The other key is the bed in process ... if you cannot SMELL your brakes working at the end of the bed-in process, you are probably not braking hard enough / long enough.


Moose

[jackolee]

What do you guys think of the J's Racing brakes?? Know of anyone that owns some???

[Moose]

Originally Posted by jackolee

What do you guys think of the J's Racing brakes?? Know of anyone that owns some???

J's racing makes very nice stuff overall ...BUT their BBK is for the FD2 TypeR which has a different front knuckle from the regular FD2 / FG2, so it is probably not compatible.


Moose

[jackolee]

really?

is there no way to make them fit? or would i also have to get new fd2 front knuckles to make them fit?

[Moose]

Originally Posted by jackolee

really?

is there no way to make them fit? or would i also have to get new fd2 front knuckles to make them fit?

I do not know for sure ..I suspect that you might have to order the JDM FD2 Type "R Knuckles ..and THAT is going to add a lot of $$$ to your BBK ... You are probably better off with a Fastbrakes setup or other similar setup designed for the USDM cars


Moose

[jackolee]

man... guess im going to go back to the Spoon kit i was looking at

[FALer]

Originally Posted by TurboBlue

True.But i just thought that even without resurfacing, that at least i would feel a noticeable difference in braking power after changing the pads which i really did not feel at all.

I should chime in that I thought you wrote HP+, not HPS. My personal opinion is that HPS pretty much blow.

[FALer]

Originally Posted by Moose

First thing - Hawk HPS are a street compound, and not alot more aggressive than OE ... so braking performance will only be slightly better than OE.

Related to the Above :

Pads NEED a layer of THEIR specific pad material on the rotors for them to work properly. A layer of the old pad material will not work "well" with the new pads, particularily a street compound which is not normally aggressive enough to remove the old layer.

Bare steel / iron is actually quite slippery, particularily when wet, so how do the pads actually grab the rotors and slow down the car?
Well on a virgin rotor when you initially "bed-in" the rotors you are actually transfering a layer of pad material from the pads to the surface of the rotor (at the microscopic/molecular level).
This very thin layer of pad material does a couple of things. Creates a "wear surface" that protects the rotor from being worn out to quickly(Iron is fairly soft and this layer creates equivellent wear), and provides a friction surface for the pads to grip.

So when you are changing pads it is generally a good idea to at least resurface the rotors, or turn them if they are grooved or warped.

As stated above, if the rotors are in good condition a few carefull passes with a random orbital sander ...in a circular motion, will remove the old transfer layer and provide a virgin metal surface for the new pads to work with.

The other key is the bed in process ... if you cannot SMELL your brakes working at the end of the bed-in process, you are probably not braking hard enough / long enough.


Moose

Here's an explanation of abrasive vs. adherent friction and how brake pads work at a molecular and physical level:

StopTech : Balanced Brake Upgrades

Coefficient of Friction explained (and other useful brake info):

Brake systems | Motor | Find Articles at BNET

[TurboBlue]

Originally Posted by Moose

First thing - Hawk HPS are a street compound, and not alot more aggressive than OE ... so braking performance will only be slightly better than OE.

Related to the Above :

Pads NEED a layer of THEIR specific pad material on the rotors for them to work properly. A layer of the old pad material will not work "well" with the new pads, particularily a street compound which is not normally aggressive enough to remove the old layer.

Bare steel / iron is actually quite slippery, particularily when wet, so how do the pads actually grab the rotors and slow down the car?
Well on a virgin rotor when you initially "bed-in" the rotors you are actually transfering a layer of pad material from the pads to the surface of the rotor (at the microscopic/molecular level).
This very thin layer of pad material does a couple of things. Creates a "wear surface" that protects the rotor from being worn out to quickly(Iron is fairly soft and this layer creates equivellent wear), and provides a friction surface for the pads to grip.

So when you are changing pads it is generally a good idea to at least resurface the rotors, or turn them if they are grooved or warped.

As stated above, if the rotors are in good condition a few carefull passes with a random orbital sander ...in a circular motion, will remove the old transfer layer and provide a virgin metal surface for the new pads to work with.

The other key is the bed in process ... if you cannot SMELL your brakes working at the end of the bed-in process, you are probably not braking hard enough / long enough.


Moose

Would it still be ok to resurface the rotors at this point in time?
Yes, i did certainly smell the brakes during the bed in process!!!!

Originally Posted by FALer

I should chime in that I thought you wrote HP+, not HPS. My personal opinion is that HPS pretty much blow.

Well..im not tracking my car at the moment and aren't the HPS only for track? As in, it is pretty corrosive and doesn't brake well when cold? Hence not too useful for street use?

[Moose]

Originally Posted by TurboBlue

Would it still be ok to resurface the rotors at this point in time?
Yes, i did certainly smell the brakes during the bed in process!!!!

Yes ... it would be OK ... you would just have to Re Bed the pads again ...however if you did smell the pads, you probbaly got enough heat into them, to create a good transfer layer. HPS are strickly a mild upgrade over OE ... you are not going to see a huge difference..with HP+ you will though.

Originally Posted by TurboBlue

Well..im not tracking my car at the moment and aren't the HPS only for track? As in, it is pretty corrosive and doesn't brake well when cold? Hence not too useful for street use?

HPS are a street compound ... small step up from OE. They will NOT work well at the track.

Hawk Line-up goes Something like this
Hawk Performance: High Performance Brakes

Street OE Upgrade
-HPS

Street Perfomance
-Ceramic

High perfomance Street / AutoX / HDPE for light-weight cars
-HP+

Track Only:
-DR97 (Drag)
-Black
-Blue MT4
-Blue 9012
-HT10
-DTC05
-DTC30
-DTC60
-DTC70



Moose

[TurboBlue]

Originally Posted by Moose

HPS are a street compound ... small step up from OE. They will NOT work well at the track.

Street OE Upgrade
-HPS

Street Perfomance
-Ceramic

High perfomance Street / AutoX / HDPE for light-weight cars
-HP+

Moose

Sorry, what i meant to say was, aren't the HP+ only for track use? Is it one of those track pads which are pretty corrosive and do wear down the rotors pretty quickly? Darn..i thought the HPS were a good upgrade for street use...i somehow was under the impression that the HP+ were strictly for track use.

[jrotax101]

no, HP+ are high performance street/autox

HP+ don't last at all on the track.

Hawk Blue/black - HT10 - DTC compounds are track only. as moose listed above

I use the HP+ as my DD pad - it does dust more than OEM pads, but the dust isn't corrosive like the Blue compound for example.

[TurboBlue]

Originally Posted by jrotax101

no, HP+ are high performance street/autox

HP+ don't last at all on the track.

Hawk Blue/black - HT10 - DTC compounds are track only. as moose listed above

I use the HP+ as my DD pad - it does dust more than OEM pads, but the dust isn't corrosive like the Blue compound for example.

Argh...darn it. If i had known earlier!!
How's the braking of the HP+ compared to OE? A lot better?

[jrotax101]

much better. they are really good in autoX circumstances, just they don't like our heavy cars on the track haha.

However, there is always a trade off for performance. HP+ make quite a lot of noise for DD. If you don't like squealing/howling coming from your brakes occassionally, they aren't for you

[Moose]

Originally Posted by jrotax101

much better. they are really good in autoX circumstances, just they don't like our heavy cars on the track haha.

However, there is always a trade off for performance. HP+ make quite a lot of noise for DD. If you don't like squealing/howling coming from your brakes occassionally, they aren't for you

WHAT HE SAID !! ^^^^^




Moose

[FALer]

Originally Posted by TurboBlue

Argh...darn it. If i had known earlier!!
How's the braking of the HP+ compared to OE? A lot better?

You would do best with PBR/Axxis ULT pads, IMO.

[Moose]

OK .... I do not know why I bother trying other pads, I do thinking the grass is greener over there. ... but I keep coming back to Hawk ...EVERY time ...they do not let me down.

I swapped out my Front Project Mu Titan KAI's (HC+) as they were just about done, after a summer of daily driving, and three lapping days A set of front Hawk HP+ were installed ... I was hoping I could get away with a dual duty pad to avoid track-side swaps ...


Well I have decent street pads again .... actually more consistant street pads. When the Projects MU's were working right they were great, but they seemd to "go off" and not grab as well. Then suddenly they would be goood again for a while ...wierdness.

The HP+ felt AWESOME as soon as theye were bedded in and feel great ... period. Great initial bite, good pedal modulation ... they just work.

And I think I am going to also dump the rear Project MU's for some HP+ ...

But my god they squeel .... I forgotton how noisey they can be when cold ...ahhh well ... I can live with it ..because the brakes rock again.



Moose

[jrotax101]

Haha - I am going to grab this moment when i can, cos it won't happen much.. but , told you so! lol

mine make noise all the time, even when they are hot( well, street hot)

[Pdivizzle0112]

anybody here know if the wilwood dynalite kit clears the stock 17's??

really need an answer

[Moose]

Originally Posted by Pdivizzle0112

anybody here know if the wilwood dynalite kit clears the stock 17's??

really need an answer

If you goto the Willwood web-site, and down-load the instruction manual for the RSX Brake kit, there is a measuring diagram/template you can make up, cut out and use to check fitment

http://www.wilwood.com/PDF/ds413.pdf


Moose